A question about Beta readers

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Leigh.Lyons

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Like the obsessive writer I am, I have several beta readers because I want to get my book as perfect as I can. The problem is that my new beta is asking really odd questions. She doesn't like any deviation from the plot (I have a pair of characters take a break and go get lunch). She will also ask a question about something that was already stated. How do I deal with a reader who seems to question everything, even the observed?

Also, something she had a problem with, is it okay to mention something, say that a character has a cane, but explain what happened to cause the character to need one pages or even chapters later?
 

dpaterso

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Shrug, everybody's different.

I'd answer each of her questions in turn -- point her to the info you've already supplied, tell her the reasons why your characters took a break, whether it's a concscious change-of-pacing decision or whether it's because something happens or is said at lunch. If more of same comes your way, maybe that's when to kindly suggest that perhaps this isn't her type of novel, or perhaps you need time to rethink your approach since it obviously isn't gripping her. Which is a nice of saying, if she's busting your head, drop her as a beta reader.

You'd mention the story behind the cane if and when you think it becomes relevant. Not everything needs explained or dumped on the reader right away.

/opinion not gospel

-Derek
 

Danthia

Her reading experience is her reading experience, and even if you think it's weird or wrong, she's still right about how she feels reading your book.

But it's your call what you do what that information.

One of the hardest things about feedback is knowing what to use and what to ignore. The most important thing here is, do you trust her opinion about a book? If so, then I suggest that you look at everything she says and try to figure out why she's saying it. Because a lot of people can have an issue with something, but not be able to tell you exactly why. And though they point it out in chapter four, the real problem is when you set it up in chapter two. You didn't lay proper groundwork for the reveal or resolution to make sense.

So consider why she has an odd issue, and see what you could have done to fix it. If you see nothing, and honestly feel she just missed something, then ignore it. But make sure you're not just brushing her comments aside because you think she missed something you feel you made perfectly clear. Check it and be objective. Maybe it isn't as clear as you thought. Maybe it is. Maybe one more word would fix it.

As for the cane stuff, if she's encountering something the story that's yanking her out of the story, that's a bad thing. If the cane is doing that, then why is it doing it? It might not be that she wants to know everything right then, but she really wants the cane not to suddenly appear out of nowhere with no hints. (It might not be doing that, but hopefully you see what I'm getting at.)
 

CaroGirl

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It takes experience to learn how to work with beta readers. You have to be able to decide for yourself what criticism works for your story and what doesn't. Unless I really need to clarify an issue, I don't typically question my betas, I just thank them and either use the information or not, depending.

Unless your beta really wants you to answer all those questions directly to him or her, I wouldn't bother. And you can decide for future projects whether this beta's critique is useful to you or not. If not, don't use that beta again.

Best luck!
 

Leigh.Lyons

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Her reading experience is her reading experience, and even if you think it's weird or wrong, she's still right about how she feels reading your book.

It's not so much that I thought her opinion was wrong, just confusing. I checked some of what she had asked against one of my other betas and he said it was odd for her to ask several of the questions she had, so I don't know...

I'd answer each of her questions in turn -- point her to the info you've already supplied, tell her the reasons why your characters took a break, whether it's a conscious change-of-pacing decision or whether it's because something happens or is said at lunch. If more of same comes your way, maybe that's when to kindly suggest that perhaps this isn't her type of novel, or perhaps you need time to rethink your approach since it obviously isn't gripping her. Which is a nice of saying, if she's busting your head, drop her as a beta reader.

You'd mention the story behind the cane if and when you think it becomes relevant. Not everything needs explained or dumped on the reader right away.

So it is okay to mention something then pages or chapters later explain it?

As for the occational deviations from the plot, it's a heavy topic and my characters would go crazy if every moment of the book was spent looking as grisly human remains (think the Black Dahlia with supernatural beings). Even when my mains are taking a break, they are talking about the case, or the main-main character, since it's first person narrative, is thinking about the confusing details and why they don't add up. The plot permiates everywhere, so said another of my readers :e2BIC:.
 

NeuroFizz

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Yes, it's okay to explain something later, and it's also okay to not explain everything. The "less-is-more" technique in storytelling allows the reader to have a greater investment in the writing by being the one who connects the dots in his/her own way. Many times new and developing writers (like me) tend to put in too much, verging on patronizing the reader. The only time to really nail something down is if it is critical to the story and the full knowledge is needed later. Even then, it can be left vague. Anyone who has read good stories, knows how cool it is to either be able to say, "I figured that out way back in chapter six, and I was right!" or better yet, "dang, I should have seen that coming." As an author, if I can trigger that second reaction, I feel like I've done a good job of writing.

Deviations are fine as long as they don't pull the readers from the story. On the other hand, they are good tools to help control pacing if the scene or set of scenes is/are getting too frenzied.

As for betas, others have hit it square--you have to choose what to accept and what to dismiss in the crits. But before you dismiss an obviously misunderstood part of your story (by a beta), go back and make sure that it wasn't your writing that caused the misunderstanding. Having a clear understanding of story events in our heads when writing doesn't guarantee that the same clarity will show up when black words are pressed on white paper. Maybe the beta isn't reading carefully. But maybe the writing could better lead the reader in the desired direction. It's worth a second look before dismissing the comment.
 

maestrowork

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Shouldn't be obsessed with what ONE (or two) beta readers say about the ms., especially some minor things. Focus on the big things -- plot, character, themes, etc. Also, focus on the trend. If 4 out of 5 betas say the same thing, chances are it's probably worth consideration.

As for individual questions and suggestions, take them as individual opinions and give them due consideration, especially if you trust and respect your readers (I sure hope so), but it doesn't mean you have to change or alter everything just because they mention it.

Answer their questions. And if you find yourself having to explain yourself a lot and justify when certain things happen, etc. chances are something is wrong with it.

Also, focus on when the readers say something is wrong (but they don't know exactly what is wrong) -- chances are good that something is off. If the readers tell you HOW to fix it, give it some consideration but don't stress over it.

After all, it is YOUR work and you have to do what you feel is right for it. Your readers are not supposed to write it for you. Or fix it. They're supposed to give you an alternative perspective, preferably from a reader's. Sometimes a writer can get so blinded by their work that they can't be objective, so that's why an second pair of eyes are invaluable. That said, the writer must pick and choose the advice and suggestions and critiques and stay true to their vision. It is, at the end, your work, not theirs.
 
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Laura Lond

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Sometimes we have a beta reader, and we think that every reader will see the book exactly like they do - question or misunderstand the same parts, see the same "plot holes." It is not necessarily so. If you know you have explained something she questions, point it out to her; don't change the book to explain it better.

When my husband reads my work, he often asks a question about something that will be explained in a few pages. I just tell him to read on, and then he comes back to me with, "Ah, now I see!" :)
 

katiemac

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She doesn't like any deviation from the plot (I have a pair of characters take a break and go get lunch). She will also ask a question about something that was already stated. How do I deal with a reader who seems to question everything, even the observed?

If you explained something and she still has questions, maybe you didn't explain it well enough. And if she has problems with something that isn't plot-related, maybe it shouldn't be there?

Is your beta always right? Absolutely not. But think of every question they ask, bizarre or not, as an opportunity to make your book better. Stop asking yourself if your beta is "right" and consider why they're asking the questions in the first place.
 

Danthia

So it is okay to mention something then pages or chapters later explain it?.

It's totally okay. It's even okay to never explain it. Off the top of my head I can think of two books I've read recently where the author never explained squat, they just said what was there as if everyone knew what they were talking about. MT Anderson's "Feed" and Carol Emshwiller's "The Secret City." Did I want to know more about what they were talking about? Sure. But the authors didn't feel the need to tell me, as their characters wouldn't have stopped to explain such mundane things.

The only thing you have to do is write a compelling story that hooks readers and makes them want to know what happens next. How you do that is entirely up to you. :)
 

katiemac

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If you know you have explained something she questions, point it out to her; don't change the book to explain it better.

When my husband reads my work, he often asks a question about something that will be explained in a few pages. I just tell him to read on, and then he comes back to me with, "Ah, now I see!" :)

Both of these are valid points, but remember that you won't have the opportunity to tell something like this or point out previous explanations to readers, or agents and editors. Does this mean you need to rewrite it always if a beta has trouble? No. That's why having multiple opinions is good.
 

Leigh.Lyons

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Both of these are valid points, but remember that you won't have the opportunity to tell something like this or point out previous explanations to readers, or agents and editors. Does this mean you need to rewrite it always if a beta has trouble? No. That's why having multiple opinions is good.

The problem is that I trust my beta's opinion too much. Of course... she did love Twilight (the first one)...

I'm going to be posting the first chapter to the SYW section and see what the good people say. If there are more comments like the ones she made I'll probably change things.
 
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