Unusual Novel

[Thekherham]

Let's see if I can ask a question without giving away too much.
I'm working on this novel, but it is a rather unusual novel. The main character is a rather unusual character, and the novel is what I would call a fantasy set in the real world. So in other words, it's not really a full-blown fantasy, but neither is it a "regular-type" novel.
The main character is, for the most part, an ordinary teenager who goes to school, has friends, has "adventures", lives on a horsefarm etc. etc. There are somewhat graphic sexual situations in this novel (I did mention a horsefarm, didn't I?)...
Anyway... I've been looking here and there (Writer's Market. for example), for publishers that are looking for something innovative, soemthing unsual, other than the run-of-the-mill stuff, but I'm having a little trouble with that. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks.

[Vomaxx]

I am not sure what to say about your rather unusual novel with the rather unusual character and the somewhat graphic situations that is what you would call a fantasy but is not really a full-blown fantasy about someone who is for the most part an ordinary teenager... except that if this is a sample of how you usually write you will discover, after you edit your rather unusual novel, that you have a rather unusual pamphlet.....

But you certainly did not give away too much. :)

[Birol]

Based on the information you have provided, could it fall under the subgenre urban fantasy?

[Thekherham]

Vomaxx: There is much more to this novel than what I have indicated above. I think it will amount to more than just a a "pamphlet."

Birol: Since the main action takes place on a horse farm, maybe it should be called a "rural" fantasy.

[James D. Macdonald]

Go to your local bookstore. Find unusual novels. See who published them.

That's where you're going to submit your work.

[pianoman5]

If you're looking for a category to describe your piece, you might find that 'Magic (or Magical) Realism' works for you.

Some of its exponents include: G.G. Marquez, Salman Rushdie, John Fowles, Franz Kafka, Angela Carter, Hermann Hesse, Peter Carey, and Ursula Le Guin.

So you're in good company. If your work is of a comparable standard, you'll have agents and publishers fawning all over you.

[mdmkay]

There are somewhat graphic sexual situations in this novel (I did mention a horsefarm, didn't I?)...




I may never get the horrible images that this particular sentence evokes. I grew up in a rural area with waaaaaaaaaay to many farm animal jokes. (Ugh...shivers)
Sorry that was probably way out of line but its getting late and I get weird towards bedtime. I think it is definetly time to say night folks...."night folks"

[pepperlandgirl]

I may never get the horrible images that this particular sentence evokes. I grew up in a rural area with waaaaaaaaaay to many farm animal jokes. (Ugh...shivers)
Sorry that was probably way out of line but its getting late and I get weird towards bedtime. I think it is definetly time to say night folks...."night folks"

I don't think you were out of line...or we were both out of line. Because, to me, that sentence doesn't leave room for any other images!

[reph]

To avoid those images, I'm telling myself that the graphic sex scenes probably depict horses mating with each other. That happens on horse farms, doesn't it?

Incidentally, wouldn't it be called a horse ranch?

[mdmkay]

mmmmmmmm if I remember my sex education right I think that's how little horseys come to be (don't get me to telling you about the romantacism of artificial insemination on breeding ranches)....laughing. Geez am I the only red neck on this board????????:guns: :gone:

[aadams73]

<shrug> I'm not offended by the idea of horses bonking. If your book is good, horse bonking or not, I'd still buy it.

[Aconite]

Incidentally, wouldn't it be called a horse ranch?

My ranch-dwelling friend gave me this distinction: "Farms have fences. Ranches don't." But I have also heard it as, "Farms have plowed fields, and ranches don't." Whichever it may be, note that in all instances I'm aware of, people with ranches don't like having them called farms. FWIW.

On topic:
Thekherham, it's likely that your novel is not as unusual as you think. You may just not have seen much in the appropriate subgenre. Nothing you've mentioned so far sounds all that odd.

[Andrew Jameson]

Yeah, but my working definition of "graphic sexual situations" doesn't include animals mating. I've seen animals mating on PBS, for heaven's sake, without a "graphic sexual situation" warning ahead of time.

What I'm saying is, "graphic sexual situations" and "horsefarm" makes me think, to put it delicately, of Catherine the Great.

[Torin]

What I'm saying is, "graphic sexual situations" and "horsefarm" makes me think, to put it delicately, of Catherine the Great.

That's very much like what went through my mind, only I had the genders reversed, having been unfortunate enough to hear from certain male university students about the differences between various female farm stock as partners.

Torin

[Aconite]

That's very much like what went through my mind, only I had the genders reversed, having been unfortunate enough to hear from certain male university students about the differences between various female farm stock as partners.

I think you can safely assume it was bluster. Larger farm animals wouldn't even notice a human's genitalia compared to that of their own species, and animals of all sizes kick, bite, butt, and otherwise express disinclination towards forced mating (watch a female in heat who isn't quite ready react to a male of her own species). Not that bestiality isn't possible, just that talk is cheap.

[James D. Macdonald]

Not that bestiality isn't possible, just that talk is cheap.

"Most of us use the camel to ride into town...."

[Aconite]

"Most of us use the camel to ride into town...."

Dagnabbit, Uncle Jim, cranberry juice in the sinuses hurts.

[aadams73]

Dagnabbit, Uncle Jim, cranberry juice in the sinuses hurts.

<sigh> So does diet vanilla Coke.

[mdmkay]

Poor Therkerham....never say unusual, adventures, then mention graphic sex around writers.....its like waving a red flag in front of a bull........makes em crazy....:ROFL:

[Aconite]

Poor Therkerham....never say unusual, adventures, then mention graphic sex around writers.....its like waving a red flag in front of a bull........makes em crazy....

Yeah. Hey, Therkerham, after some of the suggestions here, are you still feeling like this is a very unusual novel? *grin*

[victoriastrauss]

Let's see if I can ask a question without giving away too much.Why are you concerned about giving away too much?

- Victoria

[BlueTexas]

I live in the cutting horse capitol of the world...horses here usually mate artifically with goo that comes out of a temperature-controlled vacuum-sealed aluminum container that comes through the mail.

Amazing the things you learn.

In Texas, if it's crops, it's a farm. If there are animals, it's a ranch. They all have fences.

[mdmkay]

yes, unfortunatly free ranging went out with the cowboy movies some time back. Do you know that here in Nebraska if some farmer doesn't have the brains to keep his fences tended and one of his cows/horses get on the road and hit....its the driver that hit the cow who has to pay for the animal????? Having lived around rural areas all my life I understand how hard it can be sometimes to keep your animals where you want them but having hit my share of deer, cows, and other assorted animals on dark (and even not so dark) roads and highways this law doesn't quite seem fair (unless the farmer can show he has a good history of controlling his animals). For those who don't think that would be a big thing you would be shocked how valuble an animal a cow or esp a horse can be. Is it just me or has this thread gotten a bit side-tracked?????

[Tileus]

I would have to agree with other posters that "graphic sexual situations" and then your re-emphasis of the horse farm setting...evoked some rather....unique...imagery. I am now going to shove a Q-Tip into my brain and stir vigorously, after which I will return with a more advice tinted response. :)

[TLHines]

As some have suggested, you might call it urban fantasy (which tends to be more gritty) or magical realism (which tends to be more literary). You might also consider calling it slipstream, fabulist, or plain old contemporary fantasy. It doesn't really matter what you call it, as long as you write a compelling story. In addition to the authors mentioned previously, check out James Blaylock, Tim Powers, Jonathan Carroll, Neil Gaiman, China Mieville, and F. Paul Wilson. Or, do a google search on terms such as "slipstream" and "fabulist" to get a longer list of authors.

[LightShadow]

Piers Anthony's INCARNATIONS OF IMMORTALITY are unusual, fantasy, magical, yet sort of set in the real world, with a slight twist. He doesn't have any sexual situations, though. Is the sex necessary?

[Tileus]

Actually those novels, For Love of Evil especially, had sexual situations, but it was what I would consider "Sex Lite". You knew the characters were having sex, but he didn't go into much if any graphic detail, and didn't drag the scenes out.

[write4details]

There has to be a niche for horse porno. Who published The Horse Whiskerer?

[Thekherham]

Actually... ahem, bestiality is involved, sort of. Let me explain.
I started this novel because some friends and I were discussing the subject, and one of them said, What would happen if somebody... had sex with an animal, and that animal actually gave birth to an offspring. What animal? I asked. How about a horse? Somebody else suggested the offspring would/could be a centaur, but I thought, That's been done before, I think I'll do something different. So I decided to set it in modern times, and instead of a centaur-like offspring, I'd make the main character mostly human, with three equine characteristics... (All right, all right, I said it was a fantasy). He has hooves, a tail, and... genitals like a horse (well, not as big as a horse, of course, but... well, you know what I mean). So my MC lives on this horse farm... ranch... whatever. (It's a place that has lots of horses on it.)
O.k., the actual act that produced the offspring is off-stage, so there is nothing to worry about there, but because my MC is sexually a horse (but also part human) he is of course drawn to fillies/mares when they come into heat, and he has to fight this urge... Well, there is a scene in the book where the urge is stronger than the willpower, if you know what I mean. Now, because he is what he is, I would not call it bestiality, although there may be disagreement...
So there you have it. That's my unusual novel. A teenager who lives on a horsefarm who is part human/part horse. And that's why I subtitled it 'A Rural Fantasy'.
So... would anybody touch it with a ten-foot pole because of the 'bestiality' element??

[Aconite]

So... would anybody touch it with a ten-foot pole because of the 'bestiality' element??
I think you can rule out the YA market.


But I don't think bestiality would necessarily knock it off all markets. Have you read what goes on in Laurell K. Hamilton's books?

[Thekherham]

Laurell K. Hamilton?

Actually.... no.

[aka eraser]

Don't let the neighsayers get you down Thekherham. The mare thought of your story had me pawing the ground with anticipation. I colt foal the life of me recall being this enthused about a story. Any palomino is a pal o' mine.

Listen to your muse whinny calls. Careful with the flowery language though - you don't want to be gelding the lily.

[gabbleandhiss]

because my MC is sexually a horse (but also part human) he is of course drawn to fillies/mares when they come into heat, and he has to fight this urge... Well, there is a scene in the book where the urge is stronger than the willpower, if you know what I mean. Now, because he is what he is, I would not call it bestiality, although there may be disagreement...

So... would anybody touch it with a ten-foot pole because of the 'bestiality' element??

Your story doesn't sound too far removed from The Animal.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0255798/

[Thekherham]

Don't let the neighsayers get you down Thekherham. The mare thought of your story had me pawing the ground with anticipation. I colt foal the life of me recall being this enthused about a story. Any palomino is a pal o' mine.

Listen to your muse whinny calls. Careful with the flowery language though - you don't want to be gelding the lily.

LMAO

[Thekherham]

Your story doesn't sound too far removed from The Animal.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0255798/

I saw The Animal, didn't think much of it.
Rob Schneider had animal organs put in him by a mad scientist after an accident. So basically, even with those organs in him, he is still basically a human. My MC was born with the hooves, tail, and genitalia of a horse, so he is basically a hybrid.

[gabbleandhiss]

I wasn't referencing the origin of either character's animal parts. Rob spends a good deal of his time trying to control his animal urges. For the most part, he doesn't have the willpower to control himself. Disagree with the comparison all you want. Nitpick about the details. Your story has been done before and it'll be done again. Just write the damn thing.

[Thekherham]

I wasn't referencing the origin of either character's animal parts. Rob spends a good deal of his time trying to control his animal urges. For the most part, he doesn't have the willpower to control himself. Disagree with the comparison all you want. Nitpick about the details. Your story has been done before and it'll be done again. Just write the damn thing.

Sorry, gabbleandhiss, if I misunderstood.
But I beg to differ with you. I don't think my story has been done before, and I don't know if someone will do it again. At least, I haven't seen anything like it.

[Lenora Rose]

Sorry, gabbleandhiss, if I misunderstood.
But I beg to differ with you. I don't think my story has been done before, and I don't know if someone will do it again. At least, I haven't seen anything like it.

Hmm: Animal human hybrids where animal urges need to be controlled... done.

Rural-but-modern-day stories featuring a touch of magic? done so much there are several branches, depending on the emphasis and balance between real/magical, the approach of the characters to the magical element, and type of magic involved.

odd and uncomfortable situaltions involving men/horses? Done. (A non-explicit one: Judith Tarr's a Wind in Cairo features a man outright turned into a horse in part for uncontrolled sexual urges. Being more than horse in mind, he also, um, figures out how to get out of his stall in spite of his limited anatomy and lack of fingers.)

Combination thereof?

Maybe not, but no elements are going to get you refused. No elements you've mentioned here are going to throw off an editor (if they're well written.) Trust me, there have been weirder books. And if you try to say again that "No there haven't", I'd suggest you read more widely. Most times I've heard that, it was from someone doing one of three things:

A) Not reading enough in the genre they've been writing in "For fear of polluting their story", or "I don't like it, and they all write crap anyhow, which is why I'm trying to save the genre singlehanded with my brand shiny new contribution." And almost invariably wrong.

B) Thinking they have to sound cool and edgy to be treated as a writer. PArt of all the other writer-poseur crap.

C) Making excuses for why they keep getting rejection letters, so they don't have to consider the possibility it's not as well written as they thought, and they might ahve to (Gasp) edit. It's also part of the "Writing 1,000,000 words won't make you any better if you never try to learn from your mistakes." meme Uncle Jim has brought up.

I've seen precisely one person where, based upon their writing style, I thought they might have a real chance of being right to say that the novel they wrote was probably unsaleable even though it was likely very well written. You were not the one. (And they knew enough to try editors and agents anyhow.)

SO. If your novel is well written, it's saleable somewhere. As to where:

- If there's no magic/impossible event *besides* the actual conception of the young horse-man in question, it could just be considered plain old literary fiction. Lit-fic will allow one such gimme if it supports all the symbolism and theme of the book to follow, especially if it's off screen.

- If it's more like the magical realism stories, where magic is treated more like a natural part of modern life, and not as a shock or a new thing, most places that accept literary novels will still accept it as is. Moreso if it has a more "literary" plot - journey of self-discovery, ground's eye view of a piece of modern history, and the like.

- If it's more like the "urban fantasy" genre (more magic, more resemblance to and recognition of the fantasy side, often though not always, more adventure-ish plot), there's a definite market within places that accept fantasy. Some of these can still give a strong literary crossover-impression. (Some of Charles de Lint is adventuresome - "Herne the Hunter meets the Mafia" or "Deal with the devil", some is decidedly from a more literary coming of age or self-healing approach.)

If there's a pile of adventure but not a lot more magic, you could probably try more commercial and less literary houses, too. (The stuff listed as "General fiction" insetad of as "Literature" when you go into a bookstore - and there are some - which differentiates)

If it crosses over all or any of these, rather than subtracting publishers/agents of the types that fit less well, leave them in, just lower down on the list.

Hope this helps.

[Thekherham]

Thanks for the input, Lenora.
The reason I'm a bit apprehensive abut this novel is that there is, among other sexual situations, a rather graphic description of my MC and a mare engaged in sexual intercourse, meaning that even though he tried, my MC could not mcontrol his anumal urges. Some editors may view this as bestiality (I could be wrong) and I've always thought that bestiality wasn't touched. I think that's what might be holding me back.
That little nagging thought that, Oh, my God, he's doing it with a horse...

[zornhau]

wrong) and I've always thought that bestiality wasn't touched. I think that's what might be holding me back.
That little nagging thought that, Oh, my God, he's doing it with a horse...

I think that's one of those common rules for erotica submissions. In some ways erotica is more restrictive on content than more mainstream genres.

[James D. Macdonald]

If the scene is a) necessary and b) well-written, you can do anything in mainstream. It's the porn/erotica publishers who won't touch the weirder stuff because they'll get arrested. Villard can publish things that Masquerade can't touch.

No one tries to stop Random House books at the border.

[HapiSofi]

What Jim Said, especially the part about going to the bookstore, finding books like yours, and submitting your work to the publishers of those books.

Here's a rough rule of thumb: You can have bestiality in a book if you don't have any erotic writing in it, and vice-versa. If you have either of those things, it's a good idea to not have any characters under 18.

The less you look like you're enjoying it, the more you can get away with, legally speaking.