Romance and Cheesiness

Status
Not open for further replies.

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
Def. of Cheesiness - Somewhere between absurd, cliche, and inconsistent, the main property of cheesy things is that they are unable to be taken seriously.

As a romance writer, do you come up with story ideas they you then decide are too cheesy to ever write? Do you see published romance novels and think "OMG I can't take this premise seriously enough to read it!" or "This interesting premise (or character) is totally ruined by the cheesy way the author developed it (or failed to develop it)."...?

Usually when I go into a bookstore and look at the (historical/SFF) romance novel section, I see the books as being about 50% Unbearably Cheesy, 30% Fun Reads, and 20% Literary. I have been reading romance novels for 4 or 5 years now, so over time I've gotten to the point where I can immediately recognize some of the common formulas, and I'm also running out of books on my local bookstore shelves that look interesting and I haven't read yet.

Somewhere along the line I got into the habit of saying to myself, "Oh here's a book with formula X, I would only be interested in that if it was done in ways A, B, and C." Specifically I like the formula where there is a dark horse hero, who initially seems somewhat like a villain, and he probably takes the heroine captive or at least blackmails her. So now I have this book idea in my head, but I'm not sure whether I can take it seriously enough to be motivated to write it, whether I would be embarrassed to have people know me as the woman who wrote that book, or whether on the other hand it would be easy to write because it's simple, formulaic, and I can't take it too seriously.

Anyway I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this issue.
 

firedrake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
9,251
Reaction score
7,297
I tried to write a cheesy one once, I couldn't do it. I just found it very difficult to write in that style. I just can't do 'gooey' very well.

I've read one or two, they're not my cup of tea but I can certainly understand why they're popular. I read a Barbara Cartland novel that made me cringe at the end, but, she I bet she wasn't cringing all the way to the bank!
 

brainstorm77

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
14,627
Reaction score
2,057
Honestly I confess!!! I love reading romantic cheese.. Its an escape for me :)
 

brainstorm77

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
14,627
Reaction score
2,057
I tried to write a cheesy one once, I couldn't do it. I just found it very difficult to write in that style. I just can't do 'gooey' very well.

I've read one or two, they're not my cup of tea but I can certainly understand why they're popular. I read a Barbara Cartland novel that made me cringe at the end, but, she I bet she wasn't cringing all the way to the bank!

Apparently Barbara Cartland's daughter has taken to reprinting her mother's work exclusively.
 

shameless

Superlative Type A
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
1,247
Reaction score
194
Location
West of somewhere and a click south of nowhere
Website
www.sandy-james.com
Such a fine line between horribly romantic and downright cheesy. I'll also admit I like a bit of cheese with my romance, but not cliche. To me, there's a difference. Cliche is "you're the only woman I've ever loved." A bit of cheese is "you complete me." But I need that moment that makes me tear up to truly enjoy a story, and I write that way too. So far, great reader ratings, so I hope that means I write "good" cheese. :D
 

Irysangel

She of Many Names
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
Messages
1,711
Reaction score
936
Why is it cheesy? I'm puzzled. I mean, calling something 'cheesy' has such a negative connotation that when I read this topic, I thought a troll from one of the other groups was coming to our board to wank on about how retarded romance is (which never fails to make me scream).

I don't think any of it is cheesy, just a matter of taste. You may not like the books about the wacky bumbling demon huntress that is trying to get her man, but I sure do. ;) Or the greek billionaire tycoon who falls for his virginal secretary. Love those. I mean, it's escapism and fantasy. Go as overboard as you want - as long as the heroine and hero are believable and likeable, you have me.

I mean, we could argue that any genre has cheese, really. What about SFF and punk-rock elves or demon-slaying girls in Manolos? Space pirates? Or how about mystery? The little old lady that owns a knitting store that happens to solve the mysteries that the police can't? Come on. ;)
 

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,278
Reaction score
2,137
Location
in the rain
Every genre does have cheese. Look at the one-liners in action flicks. But really, sometimes that cheese makes the movie. "I'll be back" anyone?

The definition the OP provided included absurd as a criteria...but what's absurd in one situation is perfectly reasonable in others. I think it depends on the context, and whether or not the author managed to create the willing suspension of disbelief.

Me, I like cheese. Just not stinky cheese.
 

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
3,459
Reaction score
653
Website
www.joannabourne.com
I think the question is not so much the gallery of Romance archetypes:

-- woman must choose between solid, respectable suitor and 'bad boy' suitor.
-- woman rebuilds life with a new man.
-- woman in peril finds protective and exciting man.


as the way the archetype is written.

People come to genre, as Irysangel says, because they want exactly these predictable and satisfying stories. After the Duel at High Noon the hero will always walk away jangle jangle in his spurs. St Mary Mead will remain the murder capitol of the British Isles.

Now Romance can do new stories, of course.
-- man in peril finds protective and exciting woman.

We can spiff up the old stories.
-- woman must choose between solid, respectable suitor and 'bad boy' vampire suitor.

But the comfortable, predictable storyline itself is not an inherently bad thing.

Where the 'cheesy' comes in -- if I understand OP correctly -- here, and in any genre, is when we go slack and let the wonderful strength of these traditional stories do all the work for us.

When our plot is a strong, simple, human story that can drag almost any mediocre writing along with it ... when the reader just wants to jump in ... it can make us lazy.

What we gotta do is put as much cunning and sweat into pulling the reader into 'secret baby' as we would if we were embarking on one of those dreary literary works involving bankrupt farms in Patagonia and incest and, y'know, llamas.
 
Last edited:

brainstorm77

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
14,627
Reaction score
2,057
There is still a large market for cheese. I enjoy it as a escape. While I like reading more serious works at times often I just like a quick read :)
 

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
I was trying not to sound trollish - prejudice against a whole genre offends me too (just today I had someone tell me science fiction and fantasy was all crap! :rant: ) But I needed to get at this question of cheesiness because it has been bugging me as a writer. I would definitely agree that all genres have cheesy aspects, often some of them are beloved things readers feel nostalgic about or cherish as guilty pleasures. And another thing I've observes, pretty much every novel idea sounds cheesy when reduced to a 1-sentence logling, even when the novel itself isn't at all.

I was a science fiction and fantasy fan long before I got into romance novels. I remember reading posts where someone was ranting about how writing escapist, fantasy-fulfillment sff wasn't respectable (basically because they thought it was cheesy). Or similarly, I recall a thread where someone was toying with the idea of writing a gender-bender but found that sub-genre so cheesy it made them afraid of showing the manuscript to anyone. Or reading, years later, a scene I wrote in a fanfiction when I was 15 about a fantasy musical jam session - I blushed realizing what a totally cheesy thing I'd written. I guess the issue of cheesiness in sff doesn't bug me the way it does in romance; not sure whether that's because I have been reading it since I was a child with less refined taste, whether having more experience reading it gives me more examples of how anything can be 'done right' so I feel more secure that I could do it right, or maybe it's more that sff is defined in terms of objects (spaceships, aliens, magic crystals, dragons...) and I think every object can be used well or poorly, but romance is more defined by the kinds of activities going on, and I don't have the same kind of confidence that I can present any activity it a way that draws a reader in and doesn't disrupt their sense of disbelief.
 

brainstorm77

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
14,627
Reaction score
2,057
I was trying not to sound trollish - prejudice against a whole genre offends me too (just today I had someone tell me science fiction and fantasy was all crap! :rant: ) But I needed to get at this question of cheesiness because it has been bugging me as a writer. I would definitely agree that all genres have cheesy aspects, often some of them are beloved things readers feel nostalgic about or cherish as guilty pleasures. And another thing I've observes, pretty much every novel idea sounds cheesy when reduced to a 1-sentence logling, even when the novel itself isn't at all.

I was a science fiction and fantasy fan long before I got into romance novels. I remember reading posts where someone was ranting about how writing escapist, fantasy-fulfillment sff wasn't respectable (basically because they thought it was cheesy). Or similarly, I recall a thread where someone was toying with the idea of writing a gender-bender but found that sub-genre so cheesy it made them afraid of showing the manuscript to anyone. Or reading, years later, a scene I wrote in a fanfiction when I was 15 about a fantasy musical jam session - I blushed realizing what a totally cheesy thing I'd written. I guess the issue of cheesiness in sff doesn't bug me the way it does in romance; not sure whether that's because I have been reading it since I was a child with less refined taste, whether having more experience reading it gives me more examples of how anything can be 'done right' so I feel more secure that I could do it right, or maybe it's more that sff is defined in terms of objects (spaceships, aliens, magic crystals, dragons...) and I think every object can be used well or poorly, but romance is more defined by the kinds of activities going on, and I don't have the same kind of confidence that I can present any activity it a way that draws a reader in and doesn't disrupt their sense of disbelief.

Well I would take that comment with a grain of salt. To say one genre is entire crap is simply bull. I'm not a sci fi fan but just because I am not into the genre does not mean its not good.
 

eyelash

Registered
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
32
Reaction score
0
I think cheesiness is totally subjective. I tend to roll my eyes quite easily and yet a friend of mine can read what i believe to be absolute cheese and her response is usually something like 'aw how lovely!'.
 

DMarie84

I wish I had a time machine
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
322
Reaction score
17
Location
Ohio
Website
inthewritemind.wordpress.com
Great question!

I do like to read cheesiness occassionally. As someone said earlier, it's an escape. True, it may not be quite realistic but sometimes we need a way to leave reality behind.

Of course I like the romance with substance too--ones where the characters have to overcome a great deal to be together, if they even end up together at all. It all depends on my mood I guess :)

I've written a few "flash fiction" pieces that are cheesy. I don't know that I could write anything much longer than a short story though with those elements, though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.