I've Been Scammed... Now I Don't Know What to Do [Archive]

aopoet04

01-27-2009, 03:48 AM

brainstorm77

01-27-2009, 03:53 AM

When I seen who the publisher was I shuddered... Sorry to hear :(

stormie

01-27-2009, 03:56 AM

Hi Britney!
I'm sorry you found out now about PA, instead of earlier. Traditional publishers do sign on minors, with parental consent. No traditional publisher charges you money. For anything. There are many, many threads here on AW about publishers. Here's (http://www.invirtuo.cc/prededitors/peba.htm) one sight that will start you on your way. Also, start writing that next book and polishing it. And learn how to write a query (publishers want that first, then if they like your one-page query, they'll ask for more of your completed, polished manuscript).

And we don't think PA is corrupt. It is corrupt. They you have to buy your own books to sell yet they say you don't pay a dime.

Please read the threads. With a traditional publisher they supply your books to the store and they are returnable. You don't pay a penny.

And PA accepts any manuscript that comes their way. That is the truth. I've even submitted a small, 1K "book" called Just U And Me and they immediately emailed me back accepting it and saying they'd give it the chance it deserves. Heck, the thing doesn't even exist!

One other thing: it's hard to break a PA seven-year contract. Let those books go and start on the next one. Read all you can on writing.

Welcome!

Shady Lane

01-27-2009, 04:03 AM

You can sign with a regular publisher when you're underage! I sold to Simon and Schuster last year, just after my 17th birthday.

Mr. Anonymous

01-27-2009, 04:06 AM

aopoet- I'm sorry to say that publish America is not a legitimate publisher.

Also, you don't need a way around the age thing. The way it goes is, if you're underage you need one of your parents to co-sign. That's it. Not a big deal at all.

My first suggestion would be to terminate your contract with your publisher asap.

The way you can do this is quite simple. The parent that you had co-sign (assuming publish America requires that) needs to email Publish America, basically saying that you forged his/her signature, that he/she did NOT give you permission to publish the book, that you are under age, etc, etc.

They'll be quick to comply (that's what I did when I got caught up by a scam literary agent.)

The next thing you should do, after dealing with Publish America, is look for a literary agent. Stick around here, and you'll learn a lot. There are links to lots of great resources and plenty of very knowledgeable posters around here.

The typical procedure, in terms of getting published, works like this.

You query agents (we have a section on writing agents, and there are lots of sites, like agentquery.com, to help you find the right agents.)

If an agent likes your query, he/she will ask for a partial or a full of your manuscript.

If the agent likes that, he/she might offer representation right then and there. Be advised, revising may, and often is, a condition of the partnership.

After doing the revisions for the agent, he/she will submit a proposal to the big publishers (Penguin, Random House, etc.) If they like what you have, then they'll make you an offer.

Hope I helped, and best of luck. Sorry to hear that you got caught up in PA's scam operation, but at least now you know the truth.

Christine N.

01-27-2009, 04:06 AM

To be honest, poetry is a hard sell. Not many publisher do it, because it's just not lucrative to them. But, for what you get with PA, you could get your books printed up at www.lulu.com for far less. If you do poetry readings, you can sell them at the readings, which is what many do. ETA: I think I went by your user name and assumed you were writing poetry. Well, it's the same advice anyway.

If you're writing fiction, non-fiction, biography, or anything else book length (or even novella length in some cases), there are a plethora of publishers that are REAL publishers, meaning they pay YOU and not the other way around :)

Welcome! I know there's a poetry forum around here somewhere, so you might want to check it out.

merrihiatt

01-27-2009, 04:27 AM

Welcome! :welcome:

I'm sorry to hear you signed with PA, but I'm glad you are figuring out where to go from here.

Queen of Swords

01-27-2009, 04:51 AM

Hi Britney,

...only to find that they won't, in fact, sell my books in stores and that they won't, in fact, promote it at all.

That's why we warn people about PA. Once the books are published, the authors have no way to sell books short of paying PA for the books and then reselling them... so most authors end up paying the publisher. It just doesn't happen upfront.

PA also has other ways of getting money from authors - high shipping and handling charges, auctions, miscalculated royalties, you name it.

If anyone has any suggestions for a GOOD publisher... the only thing I really need is for them not to charge any money upfront; I don't have any to pay. Please, if anyone has any help to offer...

What kind of books do you write?

Gillhoughly

01-27-2009, 08:03 AM

Go to a bookstore and look up books similar to your own.

You will see the name of the publisher on the inside front pages.

THOSE are legit houses that pay YOU to publish your words.

You won't find any PA books there unless the writer begged for space.

That's how legit publishing works--they pay YOU for the permission to print your words.

"Traditional" is a word used by PA to make their victims feel warm and safe. They invented it to suck people in.

Please don't feel bad about this if you can help it. They've been ripping people off for a decade now and have a lot of practice at it. You'll survive.

Hang out on AW and read about the craft and learn as much as you can so this doesn't happen again.

The number one rule of writing is called YOG'S LAW: "Money flows toward the writer." (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Transwiki:Yog%27s_Law)

Too many scam sites on the Internet make it seem like paying to be published is the norm. They do this so you'll buy their services.

PA plays into this with their sales pitch. When you don't know how wrong it is, it's easy to get ripped off.

You've a whole bunch of new friends here, and we'll be glad to help.

Also--go to the 808 section of your library and read all the books there about writing. The more you know the better protected you are!

And as Uncle Jim here will probably say "Write another, better work!"

Sean D. Schaffer

01-27-2009, 08:16 AM

Hi, everyone... I just joined this site a short time ago, actually, and I was really surprised to find this thread. My name is Britney Zientara, and I just got my first and second books (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Blackened-Wings/Emmett-Pullman/e/9781607031598/?itm=1) accepted by this company that everyone here seems to believe to be corrupt, after spending a good three years looking for a way around the age limit on the contract law and finally hitting upon a legal solution, only to find that they won't, in fact, sell my books in stores and that they won't, in fact, promote it at all. It was a very big let-down... and that might be one of the biggest understatements I've ever made.

If anyone has any suggestions for a GOOD publisher... the only thing I really need is for them not to charge any money upfront; I don't have any to pay. Please, if anyone has any help to offer...

Thank you.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.............

I'm sorry that happened to you, aopoet04. I found out about PA the hard way too. Don't feel guilty, and don't panic. My suggestion, probably already mentioned by others, is to just go ahead and chalk this up to experience, then push on with your writing and don't worry about PA. Like Uncle Jim and others commonly say, so I say as well, don't worry about it, and go, write a new, better piece.

I hope this helps you out, and I wish you the very best. :)

tlblack

01-27-2009, 08:23 AM

Hi aopoet04 and welcome to AW. There are many here that got rooked in by PA, myself included. The stories you hear about PA are all true, and it's unfortunate that people still get hooked by them. PA has taken to asking for a price to get out of their contract. Either a $300 or higher monetary cost, or buying 50 or more copies of your own book/s from them. My best suggestion would be for you to let them know that you or anyone you know will not buy any more copies of your book, that you can't market a product that was doomed to fail from the start, and that you'd like to have the rights back to your work. Send that message about once a week and ignore all of their rude responses I'm sure you will receive. In the meantime, work on your next book and browse around the rest of AW. There is a wealth of information to be gained here and as with all things, the more you know about your craft, the better you will become at it.

Lastly, do not feel bad because you got taken in by all of the self-proclaimed hype that PA lays out for all to see on their website. As Gillhoughly said, they've been taking people for a decade now and aren't likely to stop until someone, who can beat them at their own game, does so. Being scammed isn't the end of the world or your writing career. Call it a lesson learned and move past it. (No it won't be easy.) It's the only way you can move forward. If you have questions, don't hesitate to ask. Someone around here usually has an answer.

BenPanced

01-27-2009, 09:33 AM

Also, you don't need a way around the age thing. The way it goes is, if you're underage you need one of your parents to co-sign. That's it. Not a big deal at all.

My first suggestion would be to terminate your contract with your publisher asap.

The way you can do this is quite simple. The parent that you had co-sign (assuming publish America requires that) needs to email Publish America, basically saying that you forged his/her signature, that he/she did NOT give you permission to publish the book, that you are under age, etc, etc.

They'll be quick to comply (that's what I did when I got caught up by a scam literary agent.)
Not a good idea. At all. Ever. First off, that's fraud. Illegal, regardless of the circumstances, scam or no; a contract has been signed and PA's contracts have held up in arbitration. Second, PA and its minions regularly troll these messageboards so if her guardian even thinks about trying that, they'll have to contend with a lawsuit slapped on them so fast, it'll make their heads spin. aopoet04, don't even consider this! The other methods described above are much easier and above the board.

Khazarkhum

01-27-2009, 12:38 PM

Actually, in most states a minor can't sign a contract. This has been proven in court endlessly when kids sign for things. For a contract to be enforcable, both parties must agree & consent; and by definition a minor can't do that.

circlexranch

01-27-2009, 06:11 PM

A contract with a minor is not automatically void, it is voidable. There is a difference. I have minors sign plea agreements all the time without a co-signature of their parents. However, I have a parent there and I question them about the minors competency, their opinion, etc.

A minor can shrug off a contract any time and the other party is left holding the bag. They can take the minor to court and try and enforce the contract, but the judge will say, 'gee, you are the grown up, you should have checked drivers licenses before YOU signed.'

Bottom line: I can sell my car to a minor. I will have a hairy bear of a time getting the minor to pay for it.

There is 'no way around' the legal requirements for contracts. You have to be of age, literate (or have the contract read and explained to you), and not have any mental or physical impairment that prevented you from understanding what you were doing.

By law, a minor is considered impaired to understand and execute the terms of the contract. The burden is on the other party.

What our young poet should do, if her parent did not sign the contract, is write PA and tell them how old she was and ask to be released from the contract. Don't push it, just also don't do anything to promote the book and do not buy copies for yourself.

Welcome to AW. We love writers. That's why we hate PA.

ssnowe

01-27-2009, 06:15 PM

I don't know anything about getting out of contracts, so I'll leave that part alone. I do want to say that I'm glad you are here and I hope you will stick around. These boards are full of amazing resources and there are people here who published with PA and have went on to sell their work to other publishers.

stormie

01-27-2009, 06:20 PM

Welcome to AW. We love writers. That's why we hate PA.
Well said.

aopoet04

01-28-2009, 05:10 AM

Thank you all for your advice and help-- I don't actually write poetry, at least not much. My book is a horror novel... I write all types of fiction, really, usually leaning more towards romance.

I don't care much about getting out of my contract-- between now and when it expires, I will have written many more manuscripts, better ones, in fact.

Is anyone really clear on the age thing, though? Please, I'd like some help with that one...

M.R.J. Le Blanc

01-28-2009, 06:08 AM

To be honest (AND I AM NOT A LAWYER, just so we're clear :) ) if you signed a contract when you were underaged, and your parents did not cosign it, I believe legally the contract is void. Of course, the age of legality may differ from place to place, so I'd look into that. Basically the law says that anyone underaged is not considered mature enough to enter into a binding agreement on their own. Anyone who's smart and wants to enter into a contract with someone underaged always gets parents to cosign so that they're not screwed if the underaged flounders on the contract. But if it's just you, I don't think PA would have a legal leg to stand on in this case. And if Vic has even half a brain in his head, he'd know it too.

aopoet04

01-28-2009, 08:23 AM

Well, my father cosigned this particular contract and, if necessary, will continue to cosign anything I need him to. But... does that count if he's not legally my guardian? My mother has custody, and he has visitation rights. Just... urgh. I loathe law... it's so confusing...

Thank you very much for that, though-- that's what I thought, too.

M.R.J. Le Blanc

01-28-2009, 09:25 AM

I think it still counts. You'd have to look the specifics on that one, I don't know the details but I think that might hold in court (again, I am NOT a lawyer).

circlexranch

01-28-2009, 05:57 PM

I believe legally the contract is void.

See post #14. It is not void, it is voidable. There is a difference. And it is voidable by the minor. A minor can say, 'nah, I don't think so . . . ' and the other party is stuck. That is why any reputable company won't sign a contract with a minor. It's just not good business.

Anyone can sign a contract. The legal devil in the details is enforcing it!

Here is a quickie summary of the law from a legal site:

Can a minor sign a lease?

Anyone can sign a lease. The question is whether the person can be held accountable to follow the requirements of the lease, such as paying rent. A lease is a contract. A minor is generally not bound by his or her contracts. This means that, if a minor enters into a contract, the law will allow the minor to "void" the contract. The law gives the minor the power to choose whether s/he wants to honor the contract or avoid the obligation.

However, there is an exception. If a minor receives any of the "basic necessities of life under a contract, s/he is bound to pay for them at a reasonable price. Lodging is considered a basic necessity (Corpus Juris Secundum, Infants, Section 181).

The homepage link is here. (http://www.peoples-law.info)

aopoet04

01-28-2009, 06:38 PM

Thank you, that makes it a lot clearer. But do you know if there are any publishers who will let a minor sign a contract, keeping the legalities in mind?

Hillgate

01-28-2009, 06:47 PM

Thank you, that makes it a lot clearer. But do you know if there are any publishers who will let a minor sign a contract, keeping the legalities in mind?

IMHO, no-one worth signing a contract with will sign with a minor unless their parent or guardian or other legit rep (eg lawyer, agent - with parental authority) also signs.

veinglory

01-28-2009, 06:48 PM

I would very much doubt that any reputable press would sign a minor without a cosign. It effectively binds them to the contract but not the author.

aopoet04

01-29-2009, 09:44 AM

I can get a cosign without a problem. Do you think they'll allow me to sign with it?

circlexranch

01-29-2009, 06:33 PM

I can get a cosign without a problem. Do you think they'll allow me to sign with it?

If your book is good enough, they won't be able to shove the pen in your hand fast enough.

Uber-agent Nathan Bransford, in his superb blog says his agency has the original query letter for 'The Lost Boys.' The author was an underage kid. Did they sign her?

Helllllyaaaaaaaaa . . . .

aopoet04

01-31-2009, 11:57 AM

Thank God... so all I have to do is be a brilliant writer?
... that's not hard at all -.-

But seriously, thank you so much.

Queen of Swords

01-31-2009, 01:20 PM

Thank God... so all I have to do is be a brilliant writer?
... that's not hard at all -.-

No, it's not.

The hard part is picking yourself up after each rejection, keeping your outlook professional, sending out more queries and continuing to write. As someone's signature here says, "persistence trumps talent".

aopoet04

02-01-2009, 06:40 AM

Rejection is something I've had to handle before. I think I'm one of those people who gets more angry than depressed when rejected; it makes me want to prove them wrong somehow by getting accepted the next time. So things should be fine.

It's a huge relief... I'd rather deal with a hundred more rejections than have to research contract law again. Persistence, I can do. Law, not so much.