Is it standard for publishers to offer first time authors based upon their proposal?
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If you have a track record of published work in other areas such as newspapers, magazines etc. it will be easier to land a publisher based on a proposal. If you don't, you'll probably have to at least dazzle with a few sample chapters before they'll bite.
Normally I don't comment on typos or improper usage in posts but it'll help your cause if you learn the proper use of "sale" and "sell."
Normally I don't comment on typos or improper usage in posts but it'll help your cause if you learn the proper use of "sale" and "sell."
It may also depend on how much experience you have in the area you're writing about. If you've been working in the field for a long time, or have a recognized qualification relating to it, you may have an easier time persuading the publisher to take a chance on you.
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I sold my book based on a proposal, two sample chapters and a requested third (I sent the proposal and two chapters and the editor requested the third, which was already written). I had most of the book sketched out and some chapters fully written. She didn't want to see the whole book but wanted to know I could deliver it in four months.
If I was a publisher, I would want to see a completed piece of work from a first-time writer.
As others have said, if you already have a track record it could be different. But, if you haven't finished writing the book, how can a publisher rely on it being completed?
At the very least, any publisher with his/her brain engaged would want to see sample chapters to see if you can write to an acceptable standard.
As others have said, if you already have a track record it could be different. But, if you haven't finished writing the book, how can a publisher rely on it being completed?
At the very least, any publisher with his/her brain engaged would want to see sample chapters to see if you can write to an acceptable standard.
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My agent is going to try and sell my non-fiction work based on a proposal and the first chapter only.
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Generally speaking, for non-fiction, while you do NOT have to have your entire manuscript completed, you'll likely have to have a sample chapter or two to submit, along with a sharp proposal.
And no, your chapters don't have to be chapters 1 and 2; pick chapters that give a good idea of your writing style and are a part of the story you're excited about. I sold my book with what became chapters 6 and 7, since that was a rather dramatic part of the story and also allowed me to end on a cliffhanger.
Like Susan, I also had to submit a third chapter, once I really had them hooked.
And no, your chapters don't have to be chapters 1 and 2; pick chapters that give a good idea of your writing style and are a part of the story you're excited about. I sold my book with what became chapters 6 and 7, since that was a rather dramatic part of the story and also allowed me to end on a cliffhanger.
Like Susan, I also had to submit a third chapter, once I really had them hooked.
all the 'books' and gurus suggest a complete proposal touching upon all the requisite components. Including two sample chapters. Of course since some chapters will be shorter/longer than others... they basically want to see 20-30 pages right out the gate.
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I sold my first book on the basis of a half-assed idea and one sample chapter to a major (within that genre) publisher, without an agent. Actually I emailed them with the idea - I was previously unpublished and had no clue how the process worked - and they requested a proposal. I figured out what that was, and sent it along with the first intro chapter to the book.
Subsequent books, I've been a somewhat better prepared and sent polished proposals, along with a single chapter - just a few pages. Four books now, and I wouldn't consider writing the whole thing unless I had a buyer.
Subsequent books, I've been a somewhat better prepared and sent polished proposals, along with a single chapter - just a few pages. Four books now, and I wouldn't consider writing the whole thing unless I had a buyer.
Previously published authors of nonfiction (well written books that sold well) may be able to get by with less than unpublished writers. Sure, an unpublished can submit a query letter, proposal and a couple of sample chapters, and if the stars are aligned just right, a publisher will offer a contract -- but I wouldn't count on it. In my experience publishers almost always want to see the entire manuscript from an unpublished author before offering a contract. Can't say I blame them since they want to be sure that the writer can complete the book and is amenable and capable of doing revisions.
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I sold my first nonfiction based upon a proposal and one chapter. I think a lot depends upon your platform; if you've got a good one, it's an easier sell.
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My first book was sold on the basis of the outline, but the editor knew me because I'd done copy editing and they had seen some of my short work. My second book was sold on the basis of a proposal, but no writing sample, and I got a two book contract. The topic of the second book in the contract wasn't even discussed until the first one was in production. No writing samples at all...
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I sold my first non-fiction book based on a proposal only...and ironically it was a different book! But I've published a lot of magazine articles, and the topic is related to one of my professional fields. Also, it's a small publisher; it just so happened that they were planning a book in my field in their career guide series, and my proposal was on a similar topic. I would make sure the proposal is sound and that you have at least prepared two to three solid chapters.
I am a debut author whose book, Nasty, Brutish, and Long: Adventures in Old Age and the World of Eldercare (Avery/Penguin, March 2009), sold on the basis of a proposal with one 4,000 word sample chapter. The proposal was not small at 25,000 words, and it had a quite extensive outline. The proposal I submitted to publishers was greatly worked over by my agent. Being to a great extent an account of my work as a psychologist in nursing homes, although my platform was not otherwise extensive--no celebrity psychologist, me--I was uniquely qualified to write the book.
I disagree a bit with the poster who said publishers want the whole book so the new authors can prove themselves capable of finishing a book. Publishers and their editors like the fact that they can help shape the commercial viability of a nonfiction book while it is in the process of being written.
I disagree a bit with the poster who said publishers want the whole book so the new authors can prove themselves capable of finishing a book. Publishers and their editors like the fact that they can help shape the commercial viability of a nonfiction book while it is in the process of being written.
That would be me. The overwhelming majority of those who have posted on this thread saying that they sold based on a proposal only or on a proposal and partial are experts withing their field. They have the credentials needed for a publisher to make a valued judgment. When this is the case I think it is possible to sell on a proposal and or a proposal and sample chapters. But when this isn't the case, and when a writer is unpublished, I do believe that in most instances publishers will want to see the entire work. Of course there are exceptions.
The editor of the publisher I hope to be working with before I am senile and in a nursing home... said that "normally they require a completed manuscript from a first time author." He said they might make an exception in my case, based on my credentials, but it would still have to be almost complete.
I do agree with Scope that the reason publishers often require a completed manuscript from an unpublished writer is that they want to make sure you actually do finish it, since you have no track record for doing so, which is not such an unreasonable requirement. But I'm sure it varies from publisher to publisher and based on subject matter and credentials.
Another reason could be that they want to see you have sufficient material to complete an entire book in a cohesive, saleable format.
I do agree with Scope that the reason publishers often require a completed manuscript from an unpublished writer is that they want to make sure you actually do finish it, since you have no track record for doing so, which is not such an unreasonable requirement. But I'm sure it varies from publisher to publisher and based on subject matter and credentials.
Another reason could be that they want to see you have sufficient material to complete an entire book in a cohesive, saleable format.
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The normal course of business in the non-fiction world, whether published or unpublished, credentialed or non-credentialed, is proposal plus 1-3 sample chapters. No editor is going to read through an entire non-fiction book just to see if you can write. That would be the exception and not the rule and, frankly, I've never heard of that before.
If your proposal does not indicate via chapter summaries and outline that you have enough for a book, they (or your agent) will let you know. Many agents will say "I don't see this as a whole book."
The tricky part about writing a proposal is convincing both agents and publishers of what they cannot see. That's why a proposal is so much more important than an entire manuscript. If you can't convince me with a proposal, you won't be able to write the book.
I hated the proposal so much but as I went through it agents and editors said this to me over and over again...if you can bang out a great proposal, the book will be cake.
And it was true.
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I haven't sold a book... yet. Have had several s-plays optioned. In transitioning to books all the 'how-to's' on the shelf said--- if ya write fiction ya gotta write the entire manuscript and submit. If ya write non-fiction ya 'only' gotta write a dynamic proposal and two to three sample chapters. Heck... initially that's why I picked non-fiction. Why write the whole thing and get turned down when you can write a percentage of the other and get a contract to finish? My outline was a whopper. 100 pages. But w/out platform or priors I wanted to ease their minds that the goods would be delivered. The way I see it the agent wouldn't submit it if he didn't think he could sell it. For those w/out agent, might be a slightly different story. But--- I'm a little off-balance on this. I believe SUSAN gpyp is so on the mark on this one. But I also know Scope is almost NEVER too far from a bulls-eye. Hmmm. If I find out he's human I'll be devastated. Seriously... thanks for all the consistently great advise. Enjoy all.
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I think it's safe to say that some folks, particularly if they have either A Publishing Background or A Spiffy Platform (or, saints be praised, both) can snag a contract based on a query and proposal.
And others will have to prove they have the right stuff with at least a few sample chapters, if not the whole kit n' kaboodle.
And others will have to prove they have the right stuff with at least a few sample chapters, if not the whole kit n' kaboodle.
platinumscript,
Thanks for the compliment. Yes, I am human -- very much so -- and always have been!
I understand and agree with a lot that Susan said, but obviously we have a different viewpoint about one thing--the initial question posed by jasperd--"is it standard for publishers to offer first time authors based upon their proposal?" I don't believe that this is a standard practice, even with nonfiction. Does it happen to first time authors? Yes it does, sometimes. Sometimes, as said by aka eraser, but not always. My belief is that since it's a "maybe" thing, and that since it's probably more likely to happen with published authors or well credentialed people, it makes more sense for first timers to be prepared. What if an editor/agent asks to see their complete manuscript? What happens then? Do they say give me a couple of months to try and finish it and I'll get back to you? Again, this might work for published authors and well credentialed people in their field, but I think it's far less likely to work for first timers.
Look, I know it's unlikely that I'll influence the thought process of anyone who disagrees with me. And I also know that time and experience often proves to be the best teacher.
Thanks for the compliment. Yes, I am human -- very much so -- and always have been!
I understand and agree with a lot that Susan said, but obviously we have a different viewpoint about one thing--the initial question posed by jasperd--"is it standard for publishers to offer first time authors based upon their proposal?" I don't believe that this is a standard practice, even with nonfiction. Does it happen to first time authors? Yes it does, sometimes. Sometimes, as said by aka eraser, but not always. My belief is that since it's a "maybe" thing, and that since it's probably more likely to happen with published authors or well credentialed people, it makes more sense for first timers to be prepared. What if an editor/agent asks to see their complete manuscript? What happens then? Do they say give me a couple of months to try and finish it and I'll get back to you? Again, this might work for published authors and well credentialed people in their field, but I think it's far less likely to work for first timers.
Look, I know it's unlikely that I'll influence the thought process of anyone who disagrees with me. And I also know that time and experience often proves to be the best teacher.
I can only state my nonfiction experience so far... which isn't much. 
Last Thursday two editors... one from Bantam Dell and the other from "little" Random House requested two sample chapters and a proposal.
So, I sent a proposal, the first three chapters and a package of photos and documents. I sent three chapters because the first two chapters setup the story and a major event takes place halfway through the third chapter. All together about 50 pages.
Last Thursday two editors... one from Bantam Dell and the other from "little" Random House requested two sample chapters and a proposal.
So, I sent a proposal, the first three chapters and a package of photos and documents. I sent three chapters because the first two chapters setup the story and a major event takes place halfway through the third chapter. All together about 50 pages.
I've never quoted myself before! Kinda fun!
I did that just in case no one read it before and to emphasize the salient point. I still think Scope is correct on the basis of the original question. Yes, they start with the proposal, chapters, yada yada - per submission guidelines of that house - but I would say that a completed ms is quite a normal requirement for the first time author. Not in every case, but certainly within usual parameters. And I think that's really the gist of what the OP was asking. Yes, it's possible to get a contract without one, but don't expect it.
Even though you could consider me "well credentialed" I really think the editor is making a quasi-exception in my case because he's been saying he's going to do something for about 9 months now and has had ample time to see I know what I'm talking about! Despite that, I think he would rather have a completed ms to show the board.
Wow. If one is to forced to face the cold cruel world of writing non-fiction with the mandate from the powers that be that you must only enter those sacred halls of hope with full manuscript in hand... or you shall not even be considered... is a quite daunting thought indeed. Bleak and unfair. I'm like ...hmmm why didn't all those 'how to' books mention that small detail? Heck I'd just throw my hat in the ring and go fiction. End up with better odds and you get to just make s#** up as you go. Well that is just silly, but I was venting. Where was I? No interviews. No formal research and reference/source notes to compile. No rights to secure. No worries with errors and omissions dept. And Pubs might chance a look. It's completed after all.
I don't want to believe it. But the dreaded Oracle at Scope has spoken. He can't be right all of the time... can he? Well?! Somebody... anybody... heeeelp!!!!!
I don't want to believe it. But the dreaded Oracle at Scope has spoken. He can't be right all of the time... can he? Well?! Somebody... anybody... heeeelp!!!!!
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