When can I consider myself a real writer?

[Diviner]

I've been working on my writing fairly hard for the past seven years and really intensely for the past two. I've had short pieces published--two poems, a short story and a short article, only one for pay--but no acceptance yet on anything longer. I have finished but not yet submitted two novels and have 70000 wc of a third plus various beginnings of others plus about a half dozen or so short stories. I've been to one writers conference and belong to one writers' group and one critique group.

But I still hesitate to describe myself as a writer. I feel happy enough when I read what I have written, but when I think about it, I shrivel up inside. (This is pretty strange, to be pleased with the words-- or at least the story-- when I am reading but so full of doubts anyway.) Last night I almost confessed to my writers' group that I feel like a talentless hack (except a hack gets paid, doesn't he?), but I was glad I didn't because they were moved and frightened by my free write, so I kept my doubts to myself.

So, what does it take for me to consider myself a real writer? Do any of the rest of you think this way?

[James D. Macdonald]

Don't worry about calling yourself a writer. Let others call you that.

[eldragon]

What's a real writer?


I'm sure some of the most talented people in all areas of the arts, never get recognition for their work.

Just because you don't get paid to do it.......doesn't mean you aren't good at it.

My husband is a fantastic painter, artist. He can call himself an artist, even though he makes his living in a 9 to 5.


I'm no longer working for a company, so therefore I have no title. I make money doing one thing, and do many other things, including raising children, gardening, volunteering, and so on. But, I'm not a saleperson, a waitress or an accountant.



Good question!

[Christine N.]

Ah yes, the moments when you think the writing police are going to burst down your door and tell you to step away from the keyboard. The wondering when someone is going to find out that your a fraud and out you for it. LOL. We've all had those. Do you put words to paper? You're a writer.

UJ said it best - let someone else give the titles. You just keep doing what your doing.

[KTC]

I'm a carpet salesman. I am not a writer.

[Lenora Rose]

If you write, as in actually putting words on paper, (not as in talking to everyone you know about "this cool idea you'll eventually turn into a bestselling novel" without ever applying heiny to chair and fingers to keyboard/typewriter/pen) you are a writer.

Writing something accepted for (paid/edited) publication makes you an author, as far as I'm concerned, but writing, even in a private journal or a book of poems nobody sees, makes you a writer. (Though the latter examples won't likely lead to becoming an author, they're still writing-as-hobby, which is still writing, just a different branch.)

[Christine N.]

Lenora, I clicked your link.. what do you mean you don't hit your friends with sticks? You must try it, at least once. LOL.
Or you can always be a water bearer :)

I'm with you though, I'll stick with my bow and pointy sticks.

With greetings from the East Kingdom,

[Albedo of Zero]

the first time you took pencil in hand a wrote a complete sentence
(unlike the line above)

[willietheshakes]

I've been working on my writing fairly hard for the past seven years and really intensely for the past two.

Right then.

[mommie4a]

You sound like a writer to me. What, in your mind, disqualifies you?

[Richard White]

Hitting people with sticks is fun (well, so is poking them with long slender metal things too, but that's another story).

If you put words on paper, you're a writer, just like someone who hammers nails into wood to make something is a carpenter.

One person may be happy just to build a bookshelf that doesn't wobble while the other person turns out works of art that sell for hundreds of thousands.

Success (or lack thereof) doesn't make one a carpenter and the other not. Why should it apply to writers.

[Jamesaritchie]

Hitting people with sticks is fun (well, so is poking them with long slender metal things too, but that's another story).

If you put words on paper, you're a writer, just like someone who hammers nails into wood to make something is a carpenter.

One person may be happy just to build a bookshelf that doesn't wobble while the other person turns out works of art that sell for hundreds of thousands.

Success (or lack thereof) doesn't make one a carpenter and the other not. Why should it apply to writers.

But would you hire nyone who can do no more than drive a nail to build a house for you? When I want something built, and I decide to find a carpenter, my standards are a bit higher than finding someone who is satisfied with merely building a bookshelf that doesn't wobble.

And I sincerely doubt that guy would call himself a carpenter, whatever you call him. Should someone walk up to you and say, "I'm a carpenter," you wouldn't for a scond think he was someone satisfied with building a bookshelf that didn't wobble.

By your definition, my first grader is a writer, and that simply isn't so.

[Mistook]

I would tend to agree with James, even though I'm nowhere near being published and may never be. Calling yourself a writer depends on the context. If you're at a ritzy coctail party, and people ask you what you do, they are asking what you do for a living.

For me to say "Oh, I'm a writer!" would be more or less a lie.

If you're 22, at a coffeehouse, and a college undergrad asks you what you do, she's asking what you aspire to - what your passion is. Saying you're a writer in that context is perfectly legit.

To go with Uncle Jim's definition - what do people call you? I'm officially, "A pretty good writer." or "Could be a great writer." but nobody calls me a straight-up writer, and shouldn't.

[brokenfingers]

Hmmm... This is another subjective question.

I think there's a point within each of us, a threshold, that once you pass it - you feel inside yourself that you are a writer.

I know I saw this question come up almost a year ago somewhere else and I had to laugh at the idea of me being a writer. But since then, I have passed my own personal hurdles and proven to myself my dedication and commitment to the craft.

Now, to myself and others here - I refer to myself as a writer due to the facts above and the fact that I am a member of a writer's forum.

But I have yet to pass the hurdles that will allow me to say to a stranger on the street:

Hello, I am a writer....

[reph]

I've made furniture that doesn't wobble, and I'm not a carpenter.

Do you suppose people with varying amounts of experience making wooden things sit around chewing on the question "When are you a real carpenter?"

[vtwordweaver]

I'm a writer in training.

[kappapi99]

Heh...any trekkers out there?

"Dammit, Jim, I'm an engineer, not a writer!"

Sorry, couldn't resist... :D

I have had some poems published and self-published a book that I sold on my own locally, but I am still an engineer. I consider myself an aspiring writer I guess, but I would not tell anyone I am a writer, per se. That's a good question, when can you call yourself a "writer?" I guess it depends on what you mean by it. Are you making your living by writing? Is is a hobby? Or is it something you do in line with your job (Max Lucado, for example)? hmmmm...I do not think there are any hard and fast rules. If your not comfortable calling yourself a writer maybe hobby writer?

KP

[Christine N.]

LOL Richard. I tried fencing, but I just couldn't get the hang of it. I tried, I really tried too.

There's a difference now. You can call yourself a writer if you write. Poetry in a notebook that no one will ever see is writing. Blogging can be writing. Now, if you write books for a living, then you might be called "author" or "Professional writer."

What you do for a hobby is not the same as what you do for a living. Is the person who dabbles in watercolors on the weekends NOT an artist?

[James D. Macdonald]

Dunno about carpenters, but sailors (at least some of 'em) hang around talking about what makes you a real sailor. You aren't a sailor unless you've crossed the Line. Nah, you ain't a sailor until you've rounded the Horn. Nah, you're ain't a real sailor unless you've rounded the Horn in a gale....

[Diana Hignutt]

Well, I know some one named Gail, but where am I gonna find a round horn? I guess, I shall never be a real sailor. I'll just shoot for writer then.

diana

[trebuchet]

My I am a writer for reals! threshold was my first rejection slip. I rejoiced in it. I thought, I'm doing it! Publication came later.

[maestrowork]

I considered myself an "aspiring" writer when I was still working my day job, writing, and trying to get published. I was a writer -- a good writer, even -- just not a professional writer. I wouldn't be caught dead saying, "I'm a writer" at a cocktail party.

Now, after a few paid gigs, a regular column and a new book coming out, I can comfortably call myself a "writer" without the "aspiring" part.

[Jamesaritchie]

We each draw our own lines, but never are the lines so broad as in writing. No one would claim to be an electrician because they changed a light bulb, a doctor because they put a band-aid on a cut, or even a musician because they banged away at a piano for three days in a row.

I can do a lot more than drive a nail in straight. I can frame a house, and have. I've framed a house, put in all the windows and doors, put the roof on, and did a job that passed inspection. I've even built a three room log cabin from the ground up, including putting in a stone fireplace and chimney. But I'm sure as anything not a carpenter, and there isn't a real carpenter out there who would mistake me for one. Not for a second. I'm not even close to being a real carpenter.

I have no doubt the general public would demand the title of "writer" be earned by being published, and by earning money. They would demand the same level of expertise and training for writer as for doctor or lawyer or electrician. And they would demand money.

For me, it's a level of dedication. Diviner would certainly qualify with me. But I like the fact that diviner has doubts. There's nothing at all wrong with thinking of yourself as a wannabe. It's a good term, and it means the writer knows there's another level, another plateau, to reach. "Wannabe" is a term that can keep the person working hard, growing, stretching.

There are still areas of writing where I consider myself a definite wannabe. Screenwriting is one of them. I've written several screenplays, and I've even had a couple optioned, but I'm in no sense of the word a screenwriter. Not yet. I may never reach that goal because I've found that while I like the writing, I hate the world of screenwriting. Because of this, I honestly don't know if I can put in the level of dedication necessary to reach that final plateau.

I do think dedication is the key. If the person is serious enough to write darned near every day, to read darned near every day, to study, to work hard, to keep at it no matter what, good, he's a writer. But there are dabblers and dilettantes who are quicker to call themselves writers than even some who have published regularly.

I like hesitation in calling yourself a writer. I've found it usually means seriousness and dedication. It's frequently the dilettantes who call themselves writers the quickest, and with less reason.

[James D. Macdonald]

I will now reveal the secret of the pros, one so closely-held that it is worth my life to tell you.

Watch for the Omens.

When three crows fly from north to south and you see them over your left shoulder, and a black dog that you do not see barks three times, you must make and drink a cup of green tea.

Then watch for a man wearing mis-matched shoes holding a trade cloth book with a red cover. If he is holding it in his right hand, you are a real writer. If he is holding it in his left hand you are not yet a real writer, and must do 100 pushups to clarify your spirit before returning to your keyboard.

[brokenfingers]

Finally! A straight answer!

Thank you so much Jim!!!

[maestrowork]

100 pushups? I WILL NEVER become a real writer. *sob sob sob*

[Richard White]

If I do carpentry, then I am a carpenter.

Now, is there a difference between a weekend carpenter who does some small jobs around the house and a master craftsman.

Absolutely.

Is there a difference between a first grader writing a story for their parents and someone with hundreds of published novels on the best seller lists?

Absolutely.

But they're still both writers. Writers are people who write. Nothing more, nothing less.

You can quibble over "published", "professional", "technical", "journalist", "sportswriter", "author", "poet", whatever pigeonhole you want to try and put people in.

But, if you put words together to try and tell a story, you're a writer.

[maestrowork]

You are saying I can call myself a carpenter when I fix a chair?

You are saying I can call myself a plumber when I fix a faucet?

You are saying my 5yo nephew who was the cute bumblebee in his kindergarten play is now an actor?

You are saying my 4yo niece who played "Chopsticks" on my cousin's piano is now a pianist?

You are saying a 6yo who just wrote an essay for school is a writer?

You are saying my co-workers are all politicians now?

The thing is, if we adopt such broad definitions, these terms become meaningless.

[Chacounne]

On the subject of this thread, I think it has to do, at least in part, with what you consider your primary avocation, even if you're not getting paid for it (yet:)). For the longest time, even though I was working on my book, I called myself a nanny when people asked what I did; then I started coordinating weddings most of my work day, so that became my vocation, although I continued compiling my manuscript; but I remember the first time I answered "I'm a writer. I'm writing a book on..."; it was a little scary, but also a powerful afformation to myself that I was indeed writing, little by little, each and every day. It continues to keep my intention in line with my action.

Just some thoughts from someone who's unpublished but working on it.
Chacounne

P.S.
Christine,
[QUOTE=Christine N.]Or you can always be a water bearer :) QUOTE]
As the founder of the Principality of AnTir, then Kingdom, and some would say Known World, waterbearers, I resemble that remark:)

[Richard White]

You are saying I can call myself a carpenter when I fix a chair? Yes, you are doing carpentry. I'm not saying you're a craftsman.

You are saying I can call myself a plumber when I fix a faucet? You are doing plumbing.

You are saying my 5yo nephew who was the cute bumblebee in his kindergarten play is now an actor? Did he not perform a play? What else would you call him? I was accepted into the International Thespian Society and called an actor and never received a paycheck for my acting.

You are saying my 4yo niece who played "Chopsticks" on my cousin's piano is now a pianist? Yes, she is. She needs a lot more training to be considered a "competent" one, and is definitely not a "concert" pianist.

You are saying a 6yo who just wrote an essay for school is a writer? I don't know many six year olds who write essays, but that's quibbling. Yes, my daughter who wrote a great story that was published at her school when she was eight is a writer. Would I expect someone to pay for it? Hell no, but to say she's not a writer is ridiculous.

You are saying my co-workers are all politicians now? Don't know, are they running for office?

The thing is, if we adopt such broad definitions, these terms become meaningless.

Meaningless to you, perhaps. I say that if you narrow the definitions to arbitary points, you ignore what the actual verb means when it is turned into a noun. And who gets to decide who sets these arbitary points?

A writer is a writer is a writer. That's what the original question was about. What you and some others here are quibbling about is over how "good" someone is. I'm not arguing whether people are not better than others. I'm certainly not going to say someone is only a writer if they make their living at it.

Whether someone is or isn't something is not determined whether they're a hobbyist or a professional. It's the act of doing that determines it.

Obviously this is NOT a subject we're going to see eye to eye on.

IMHO, some people are good writers, some people are better writers, some are inexperienced writers, some are extremely polished. But, if they write, they're writers.
writer

n 1: writes (books or stories or articles or the like) professionally (for pay) [syn: author (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=author)] 2: a person who is able to write and has written something

Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info&db=wn): WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

[Christine N.]

I must echo the warcry of the Pennsic War (I think it was XXVII or XXVIII)
"Naked, Naked, Naked!" (Yes, SCA people ARE weird. All of us. Yep, just weird. I know people from a household called House
Mo-ron. All weird.)

Maestro - yes, to all your questions. For the time they are preforming those actions, that's what they are. I'm a stay at home mother - meaning I am also an accountant, social worker, negotiator, psycholgist, plumber, carpenter, veterinarian, emergency medical tech (which I really used to be, before I was a Mommy) chef, personal shopper and domestic diva.

But I'm a writer. Is that clear? LOL

[Jamesaritchie]

If I do carpentry, then I am a carpenter.

Now, is there a difference between a weekend carpenter who does some small jobs around the house and a master craftsman.

Absolutely.



Yep, the difference is one is a carpenter and one isn't. I am not a capenter. Period. I can, if I have to, build a house, but I am in no sense of the word a capenter, and anyone who thinks I am one simply has no idea of what a real carpenter is. I can call myself a carpenter, and evryone I meet can call me a carpenter, but I am not even close to being a carpenter, and calling myself one all day long won't change this fact. Calling me a carpenter is an insult to anyone who really is a carpenter. I've done a bunch of work beside real carpenters, and I'd never insult one by claiming to be one.

In truth, you can call yourself a writer whenever you wish. Most people will even go along with the definition while you're still in hearing range.

You can also call yourself a tomato because you have red hair. As often as not, for many who insist they are writers, you'd be just as close to correct.

On the other hand, I did use the plunger today, so maybe I'll hang out my shingle as a plumber. Those guys make a ton of money.

[SaschaI]

Diviner,

Call yourself a writer. Do you take it seriously? It's as simple as that. It sounds to me like you do, therefore you only need to change your focus and see yourself as a "winner"

I AM a writer, paid etc. If you want it bad enough, you'll have it. Good luck!

Sascha Illyvich
http://www.sensualsascha.net

[firehorse]

When I was 16, a published author told me I was allowed to call myself a writer because I wrote. He added that by describing myself in that way, I would be more motivated to continue writing. I did, but my path has progressed in a nonlinear way.

You're a writer if you write - that's the bottom line. You're a professional writer if you get paid for your writing. You're a full-time writer if you make your living writing. But I think you're asking a question only you can answer: when will it be enough?

My friends appreciate my accomplishments more than I do; nothing ever seems to be enough. I'll never be Toni Morrison, ergo I'll never be a real writer.

The bar I've always had in the back of my mind is pretty damned high. I may never reach it: When I'm published in either The New Yorker or Harpers, then I'll be a real writer. Yeah, it's a long shot, but it keeps me on my toes.

[William Haskins]

you can consider yourself a writer once you're fairly sure it would be mentioned somewhere in your obituary.

[KTC]

Dunno about carpenters, but sailors (at least some of 'em) hang around talking about what makes you a real sailor. You aren't a sailor unless you've crossed the Line. Nah, you ain't a sailor until you've rounded the Horn. Nah, you're ain't a real sailor unless you've rounded the Horn in a gale....


Sounds the same around a fishing hole. You ain't a fisherman until you've caught a muskie. You ain't a fisherman until you've fish in the ocean. You ain't a fisherman until you've mastered fly fishin'. etc, etc.

[KTC]

You are saying I can call myself a carpenter when I fix a chair?

You are saying I can call myself a plumber when I fix a faucet?

You are saying my 5yo nephew who was the cute bumblebee in his kindergarten play is now an actor?

You are saying my 4yo niece who played "Chopsticks" on my cousin's piano is now a pianist?

You are saying a 6yo who just wrote an essay for school is a writer?

You are saying my co-workers are all politicians now?



I'm a crazed dreamer...I would have to agree with each of these statements. My niece is a hell of an actress. She's 6 and can sing Tomorrow like a pro...I guess that makes her a singer too! And my son can play hockey like nobody's business...that makes him a proffesional sprotsman. And I love chopsticks! Anyone who can play that tune, in my opinion, is a pianist! But, I have to draw the line on the politician thing though, Ray...I would hope you work with nice people...calling them politicians could only be an insult.

[reph]

If you write, you probably also type. So, when you need an answer to the cocktail-party question, say "I'm a typist."

[Samuel Dark]

In my humble opinion, a writer is someone willing to get up and do it. If you have great talent, yet never write -- or just barely do, then are you really a writer? No, your not. Same if you have no talent, or just a little, yet you can't help not to write. You can't help it. So which are you? Are you the person who must write, who just likes to sit down, and do nothing but write? I think I am. So you have to figure this one out on your own, at least I think you do. :) But once you do, never give up. Writing is fun, and I hope you enjoy it the same way I do.

[arrowqueen]

As James so sensibly said, get on and write. Who cares what the definition is?Just do it.

[Kiva Wolfe]

If you've written anything besides letters to Mom and Dad, or your phone number in a lavatory stall, consider yourself a writer. The day you publish you become an author. Your biggest hurdle could be explaining what you write to the masses--poetry, short stories, novels, technical journals. Try not to kill off any more brain cells worrying about the details. Write on, I say. Mush!

[maestrowork]

I think I will tell people I'm a speaker at my next cocktail party. And a chef, because I made scrambled eggs this morning.

[LightShadow]

You write, you're a writer. But it takes more than that. Persistance and patience and persistance and drive and persistance and tenacity (was that repetitive?) You know what I mean, I hope.

[SeanDSchaffer]

:Lecture:

I'm not a writer in the strictest definition of the word. I usually go by the term 'Aspiring Writer' or 'Aspiring Author.'

If you say to the guy on the street, "I'm a writer" when it's not your job and you're not making money at it, you'll have one heck of a time explaining why your income comes from a different source than writing. I know: I was part of just such a situation several years ago, although my aspiration at the time was film-making. At the end of the conversation, the man to whom I was talking got on the bus ahead of me and quietly said, "Well, at least I have a job."

I was embarassed to no end.

An old saying comes to mind, and I think it makes a good point. It is also right in line with what Uncle Jim had to say. It is as follows:

Let others' lips praise you, and not your own.

I'd say if you want to call yourself a writer, it's your choice; but it carries more weight when others seriously refer to you as a writer.

[LightShadow]

:Lecture:

I'm not a writer in the strictest definition of the word. I usually go by the term 'Aspiring Writer' or 'Aspiring Author.'

If you say to the guy on the street, "I'm a writer" when it's not your job and you're not making money at it, you'll have one heck of a time explaining why your income comes from a different source than writing. I know: I was part of just such a situation several years ago, although my aspiration at the time was film-making. At the end of the conversation, the man to whom I was talking got on the bus ahead of me and quietly said, "Well, at least I have a job."

I was embarassed to no end.

An old saying comes to mind, and I think it makes a good point. It is also right in line with what Uncle Jim had to say. It is as follows:

Let others' lips praise you, and not your own.

I'd say if you want to call yourself a writer, it's your choice; but it carries more weight when others seriously refer to you as a writer.I'm a writer that works construction to put food on the table. Someday I'll be able to quit the second job. As far as I'm concerned, money made or not, I'm a writer in the strictest sense, or even an artist, for that matter. That's what I think of me. It's just a matter of convincing the pubishing world the same. Almost there. Agent's looking.

[Lenora Rose]

Before I go shamelessly off topic (Which I will, never fear), I have to say, while these definitions of six year old musicians and "I fixed one sink" plumbers are affirming, they really aren't useful. How does a definition so broad it includes everyone who has ever picked up a pencil, willingly or unwillingly, and scrawled a sentence on a paper help someone who is looking for an answer as to what makes a real writer? If they are questioning whether it's passion, dedication, actrual work, or publications, telling them it was being shown how to shape letters by their Kindergarten teacher is not going to serve, or satisfy the thing inside that provoked the question.

The definition where everyone literate across the whole of the world is "a writer" looks like an attempt to avoid the accusation of being exclusive, or cliquish, by not letting everyone in.

We're not here to boost low self esteem by including everyone in "The club". There is no club. Nor is it being exclusive in any pejorative way to grant that there are people who are not writers, whatever they were taught in their first years of school. There are just writers, who are people who go out of their way to write, be it as a private hobby or as a vocation or anywhere in between, and non writers, people who, though they may be literate, and occasionally scribble memos to their employees or Christmas cards to their nieces, but would never care to do so outside of work or duty.

(And before someone nitpicks my examples, someone who goes out of his way to make his memos sparkle with humour and clarity, or writes 5-page letters from Santa to each niece to tuck inside the cards -- not for duty but because it's so much fun -- may well be a writer. But that's not what I said, and you know it.)

Lenora, I clicked your link.. what do you mean you don't hit your friends with sticks? You must try it, at least once. LOL.
Or you can always be a water bearer :)

I'm with you though, I'll stick with my bow and pointy sticks.

With greetings from the East Kingdom,

Hail from the Northshield!

I did try a little, early on (Slow work, never made it as far as armour). Thanks, I'll let my persona-sister do that. Currently, I'm not even doing the pointy lengths of metal bit, just dancing and Bardic dishes* and.... I :heart: my bows.

One of the neat bits of SCAdian work I've ever seen was a woman who card-wove a belt for the water bearers, saying, "Hydration is your friend".



* I don't know if this is a Northshield or SCA phenomenon. Does the kitchen feast clean-up regularly turn into a full-out singing session in your neck of the woods?

[stace001]

I say this...If someone asks me what i do, i say i'm a writer, but i won't call myself an author. (i haven't had anything published yet). Once i see my words in print for all to read and buy, i'll call myself an author. Its a personal thing. I think once you put pen to paper or fingers to the keyboard and actually start and finish something, you can call yourself a writer.

Just my humble opinion :-)

[reph]

Why is it so important to be able to call yourself a writer without feeling you're lying? Do benefits come with writer status, like getting over a cold faster or not having to dust the furniture?

[brokenfingers]

I can answer that question Reph, with one word:




Groupies. ;)

[Liam Jackson]

Semantics always seem to get in the way of this question. If you keep a journal are you a writer? Must you be widely read to be a writer? Must you sell something to a legitimate publisher before you're a writer? If you self-publish are you a writer? On, and on, and on...

Let's examine the original question, "What do you do?" In most cases I think the person is asking "What do you do for a living?"

I wrote a novel. I sold said novel. Does that make me writer? Guess so. However, it's not the "day job." Writing doesn't send #2 daughter to college or pay the mortage. If you ask me "what do you do (for a living)?" I'll answer, "I'm a government drone. I also write a little and hope to earn a living at it someday."

To each his or her own.

[JayEss]

Hi Everyone - this is my first post.

I think...

there is a difference between saying, "I'm a writer" and "I write". Perhaps if you are nervous about saying that you are a writer (for whatever reason), then it might be more comfortable to say: "I write".

Everyone has different ideas on what constitutes being a writer and it could be argued all day...

I too have hesitated with the whole "I'm a writer" statement, and one day I found that saying "I'm a writer at heart" suited me more, and is what I continue to say.

Hopefully one day I will be able to call myself a professional writer.

Jen.

[SRHowen]

Ok--what the heck happened? I posted a reply, it was here, I mean already posted and I went to get a Pepsi and I come back and it's gone?

[aadams73]

Ok--what the heck happened? I posted a reply, it was here, I mean already posted and I went to get a Pepsi and I come back and it's gone?

Perhaps one of your kitties did a tap dance across the keyboard while you weren't looking. Mine frequently does this.

On the subject at hand: I'll consider myself a writer the day I receive my first penny from writing. YMMV :)

[SRHowen]

Perhaps one of your kitties did a tap dance across the keyboard while you weren't looking. Mine frequently does this.



LOL, I think one lives in the keyboard, that's how I end up with so much fur in there.

Anyway, let's try the thoughts I had again.

Basically, I think you can call yourself a writer any time you want to. But, the thing is . . . when you say that the assumption that others are going to make.

When I say I work as an editor for an online magazine and I write, people say one of two things . . . Oh, I always wanted to write, I have this great idea--or they ask, Oh, what have you published?

Others assume if you say you are a writer that you are a published writer. I have biz cards with the magazine addy on them and my agent's web site addy as well. Most of my publishing credits are non-fic and many of those are European. Most of "my" fiction is ghost writing I have done.

And even on the non-fic stuff--people go OH . . . they also seem to assume that writer means fiction--that non-fic is not as "glamorous" as fiction.

You can call yourself a writer whenever you want to--but that isn't going to make others think of you as one.

A writer writes, others just talk about it.

[Diviner]

But I still hesitate to describe myself as a writer. I feel happy enough when I read what I have written, but when I think about it, I shrivel up inside. (This is pretty strange, to be pleased with the words-- or at least the story-- when I am reading but so full of doubts anyway.) Last night I almost confessed to my writers' group that I feel like a talentless hack...

So, what does it take for me to consider myself a real writer? Do any of the rest of you think this way?

Thank you all for your wonderful and thoughtful answers. I have enjoyed reading this thread, but a lot of you are addressing an issue--the title of "writer," which is dear to your hearts and extremely interesting--that is not the issue prompting my question.

When someone else describes me as a "writer" I feel like I have given them a false impression. I am not so much concerned with what others call me as I am about my lack of confidence in my work. What does it take for the doubts to vanish? Are we all different about this, or is there some point where I will begin to feel secure that my stories are interesting or meaningful and that I have crafted them with feeling and style?

I read Martin Eden some years ago. I found it sad and frightening. For all Martin's early lack of success, Jack London shows him persevering with blind faith. Martin burned with a fire that I lack. Sometimes my doubts sink me to unbelievable depths. I don't remember Martin doubing himself but only doubting whether he would ever be published.

Digression: I have built funiture-- chests, tables, cabinets, boxes and shelves. It is not carpentry but cabinet making. Carpenters mostly build structures. The joins they make are simpler, butt and half lap, and they don't do much sanding. They can do cabinet making, and some even do, but their general work is bigger and rougher and they use nails and screws more often than glue. And no, I am not a cabinet maker.

[mommie4a]

Just to get even more existential here, Diviner - I think your question contains the answer: what does it take for me to consider myself a real writer?

Only you can answer this question. You need to articulate what you think it takes for you to consider yourself a writer. Do it here, in a post - what are the elements? Have you met them?


What does it take for the doubts to vanish? Are we all different about this, or is there some point where I will begin to feel secure that my stories are interesting or meaningful and that I have crafted them with feeling and style?



Every person who calls him or herself a writer must accept that their work will not always be found interesting or meaningful nor will it always be crafted with feeling and style. Unless the writer decides for him or herself that he or she will only produce when those things can attain.

But that's very unrealistic unless you plan to write only when those things strike. And from what I know of being a writer, such a person isn't a writer (ironic huh?).

IMHO, and feel free to disagree with or discard this notion, you define it for yourself and stick with that definition until such time that you think you need to change it. Then measure yourself against what you've set out for yourself. And feel free to change those expectations, because you will be changing too.

We are all different about how to make the doubts vanish, though for sure we share some techniques and beliefs on the subject too.

Again, it's like U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's definition of obscenity - "I know it when I see it." Knowing you're a writer is kind of the same, for me anyway. I knew it at a certain indistinguishable but still specific time.

Good luck. Write.

[Celeste]

Why is it so important to be able to call yourself a writer without feeling you're lying? Do benefits come with writer status, like getting over a cold faster or not having to dust the furniture?

Exactly!

Writer, not writer, professional, amateur, wanna be writer, whatever! Just fricken write!

[reph]

Diviner, my work in wood has been mostly cabinetmaking, too; just a little carpentry and some carving. You're right, there's a difference. I once read that lawyers like to have a carpenter on a jury but not a cabinetmaker. Cabinetmakers want all the pieces to fit together nicely. Carpenters only want the thing to withstand a storm.

[Christine N.]

LOL.. They're all right, I suppose. Call yourself a writer. Even if it's only to yourself.

I'm getting to the point where I'm almost ready to call myself one in public. It's hitting me - I almost have a release date and I'm working with the publisher's PR dept. to set up a release party. EEk!

If you think you're a writer, and you write (and aren't just delusional) then you are.

[JayEss]

Here's a suggestion: everytime someone praises your writing or has anything good to say about it at all - write down those exact comments in a separate notebook. When you are feeling doubtful or whatever it is you feel, get out your little notebook and read over these praises. Hopefully you'll feel empowered again -- all the while reminding yourself of why it is that you write, and why it is your passion...


Jen.

[SeanDSchaffer]

When someone else describes me as a "writer" I feel like I have given them a false impression. I am not so much concerned with what others call me as I am about my lack of confidence in my work. What does it take for the doubts to vanish? Are we all different about this, or is there some point where I will begin to feel secure that my stories are interesting or meaningful and that I have crafted them with feeling and style?

I read Martin Eden some years ago. I found it sad and frightening. For all Martin's early lack of success, Jack London shows him persevering with blind faith. Martin burned with a fire that I lack. Sometimes my doubts sink me to unbelievable depths. I don't remember Martin doubing himself but only doubting whether he would ever be published.



I think I'm beginning to see what you're asking. Honestly speaking, I think it's only human nature to have doubts about what you do, no matter what that something is.

Example: yesterday I re-wired a turntable. I learned how to do this in High School. I know how to use a soldering iron and the wiring was easy, because I kept the old wires on the machine until after I had put the new ones on. Yet for all this knowledge I have, every time I play the thing, I'm still waiting for it to blow up because I fixed it and not some college educated individual who is recognized as an electronics repairman.

My point to this example is that no matter how perfect my job was, I still doubt it even now, and the turntable is working fine. The same thing goes for whatever a person does. I remember a TV show years ago, where Thomas Jefferson was having his doubts about the drafting of the U.S. Declaration of Independence. The show depicted him having his doubts about his legitimacy in performing this important task. In fact, he asked the question, "Who am I to do this important work? Who am I? I'm... Thomas Jefferson. Big deal."

I think the doubts will be there no matter how much you've done or how 'qualified' you become in your field. Especially so with writing, because people have a tendency to think that writers are a special class of people that are somehow superhuman.

So if the doubts are there, I'd say don't worry too much about it. You're human, and human beings have doubts.


I hope this post helps you out a bit. Talk to you later.

[reph]

I'll go further and say it's human to worry that someone will catch you pretending to be an adult.

[Lenora Rose]

When someone else describes me as a "writer" I feel like I have given them a false impression. I am not so much concerned with what others call me as I am about my lack of confidence in my work. What does it take for the doubts to vanish? Are we all different about this, or is there some point where I will begin to feel secure that my stories are interesting or meaningful and that I have crafted them with feeling and style?


Charles De Lint once told me that most writers are simultaneously supremely self-confident (That fire you mentioned in Martin Eden), and horribly insecure.

Niel Gaiman has said many times to many people on con panels that he still expects someone to come to the door and say, "You make a living telling stories? Right. Here's your suit. Show up at the office at 8:00AM sharp.", which I think includes that basic insecurity, underneath the *other* insecurity of the impossibility of making money at something fun.

Teresa Nielsen Hayden has a list of Varieties of insanity known to effect authors, several of which reflect directly on your commentary.

In short, no.

You will always be a bit insecure about whether you're a real writer.

You will always keep writing because another part of you is sure that nobody can tell the story you can, and besides, there's the high you get when it's going well.

I put forward a theory as to why this is:

You cannot possible ever finish work or send it to publishers or get it published if you don't have the unmitigated gall to believe you can write, dammit! Which is all very well and fine, but --

BUT --

Without that self-doubt, you won't strive to improve, to polish. Without that doubt, you will quickly end up coasting. And improving is what gets you to the point where a publisher says yes once, then again, then a third time. It's what gets readers who read your first book and liked it to grab their friends and shove your third book into their hands, and to buy your fifth for almost everyone they know at Christmas.

Oh. It still sucks like anything to be feeling low down and horrible and like your writing isn't going anywhere, like you're an imposter, a poseur... but once you realise that it has a purpose, it's easier to remember that the best cure for that is to get the butt back on the chair and write, even though it's all crap and you feel awful, because before you know it, one of your characters has grabbed the story and towed it along, and you're on a high again.

At least, that's how it works for me. I just got through one of those. All the advice in the world couldn't have helped me in the low. Except one:

Go BIC.

[Diviner]

You will always be a bit insecure about whether you're a real writer.

You will always keep writing because another part of you is sure that nobody can tell the story you can, and besides, there's the high you get when it's going well....

Without that self-doubt, you won't strive to improve, to polish. Without that doubt, you will quickly end up coasting.


What a heartening answer! It is good to know that my doubts serve a useful purpose. Thanks.