Copyrights-related to "novelist..." thread

Roger J Carlson · May 20, 2005

I took some heat in the Bewares and Background Checks forum some months ago by advocating having your manuscript copyrighted. They all think it's foolishness and advise against it. But I don't really see the downside.

The arguments seem to go like this:

1) Theft doesn't happen or happens rarely.
A) So what's the harm in having a little peace of mind?

2) Copyright doesn't offer any more protection than, say, copies of your writing logs and back-up copies of the manuscript.
A) It doesn't offer any less either. In fact, if you DO sue, you can sue for legal expenses if you have a registered copyright. Otherwise, you must prove actual damages. On an unpublished manuscript, this is hard to do.

3) It's expensive.
A) It's not THAT expensive. Thirty bucks plus one hard copy of your manuscript.

4) It can be insulting to publishers if it's copyrighted.
A) You don't have to tell them. Nor do you have to put the copyright notice on the manuscript. Who's to know? In fact, you can copyright a manuscript multiple times. I was told by a lawyer to do it any time you had MAJOR revisions. That being the case, there is no harm if the publisher copyrights the published version. Doubtless, there will be revisions to the published version.

5) It can be a clue that your manuscript is old.
A) Same answer as 4.

6) It is entirely unnecessary.
A) Again, what's the disservice to a new writer if thirty buck will buy a little peace of mind (even if ficticious)? What's the harm?

I'd say to a new writer: "Don't be too concerned about theft, but if you are, get it copyrighted and keep the knowledge to yourself."

Now, I understand that screenwriters have additional protections available. (Is it called registering?) I don't know enough to say whether the above applies to that or not.

Jamesaritchie · May 20, 2005

copyright

Roger J Carlson said:
I took some heat in the Bewares and Background Checks forum some months ago by advocating having your manuscript copyrighted. They all think it's foolishness and advise against it. But I don't really see the downside.

The arguments seem to go like this:

1) Theft doesn't happen or happens rarely.
A) So what's the harm in having a little peace of mind?

2) Copyright doesn't offer any more protection than, say, copies of your writing logs and back-up copies of the manuscript.
A) It doesn't offer any less either. In fact, if you DO sue, you can sue for legal expenses if you have a registered copyright. Otherwise, you must prove actual damages. On an unpublished manuscript, this is hard to do.

3) It's expensive.
A) It's not THAT expensive. Thirty bucks plus one hard copy of your manuscript.

4) It can be insulting to publishers if it's copyrighted.
A) You don't have to tell them. Nor do you have to put the copyright notice on the manuscript. Who's to know? In fact, you can copyright a manuscript multiple times. I was told by a lawyer to do it any time you had MAJOR revisions. That being the case, there is no harm if the publisher copyrights the published version. Doubtless, there will be revisions to the published version.

5) It can be a clue that your manuscript is old.
A) Same answer as 4.

6) It is entirely unnecessary.
A) Again, what's the disservice to a new writer if thirty buck will buy a little peace of mind (even if ficticious)? What's the harm?

I'd say to a new writer: "Don't be too concerned about theft, but if you are, get it copyrighted and keep the knowledge to yourself."

Now, I understand that screenwriters have additional protections available. (Is it called registering?) I don't know enough to say whether the above applies to that or not.

You do have to place the copyright notice on your manuscript if you want the full benefit of registration. This is a mistake many make. And whether you tell the publisher or not, they'll know the minute they try to register the work, as all legitimate publishers do. And when they find out, as they must, they won't be happy that you didn't tell them

Theft of unpublished novels really doesn't happen, and peace of mind isn't worth the price you can pay by registering your work before a publisher sees it. Do what the pros do, what agents and editors want. Trust me, not only will no one steal your novel, it wouldn't be worth five cents to anyone who did steal it. This is why no one steals unpublished novels. They're absolutely, completely worthless. Nothing is more worthless than an unpublished novel.

Screenplays are different, and should be registered. But even here, the registration is as much for the protection of the person reading it, as it is for the writer.

But registering a novel before submitting really is an unnexessary, unprofessional, and self-defeating act.

Joe Calabrese · May 20, 2005

For screenwriters this is a touchy subject and I am sure will start a heated debate on this thread.

My take on it is:

Copyright (and/or WGA reg) your work, because it is something that is relativly inexpensive and it's just the right thing to do. It is expected in the industry that you have done so.

You cannot sue anyone (even though the instances are rare and it has to be almost a direct copy of your work) in federal court without a copyright in place. WGA reg is not good enough for federal cases. If you live outside California (or the state which the person stole your work (again a rare thing) then you would go to federal court.

But whether on not you decide to post a notice on your cover page is irrelevant since you should always sign and send with your work a release form, whether the interested party requires one or not. (if they are an established company, they should want one). On that release form is where you put any copyright and/or WGA info. You can download a generic one from Done Deal.

I don't put notice on the cover because the release form is what gives that notice.

Sure it is mostly a peace of mind thing and many wil think it is a waste of money, but it is expected to have been done. And in the rare case a worthwhile investment.

Again. It is rare that anyone would steal your work and the only protection you have is if it is word for word copy. Can someone read your work and develope a script that is similar in characters, plot and such. Sure, but it is less expensive and timely for them to buy your script then to start from scratch and do it themselves.

If they love it, they will buy-- not steal.

Roger J Carlson · May 20, 2005

A few points of rebuttal:

1)

You do have to place the copyright notice on your manuscript if you want the full benefit of registration.

Not according to the US Copyright office: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.html

NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT

Before March 1, 1989, the use of copyright notice was mandatory on all published works, and any work first published before that date should have carried a notice. For works published on and after March 1, 1989, use of copyright notice is optional.

Although not required by law, it is perfectly acceptable (and often helpful) for a work to contain a notice for the original material as well as for the new work. For example, if a previously registered book contains only a new introduction, the notice might be:

© 1941 John Doe; introduction © 2002 Mary Smith

For more information about copyright notice, see Circular 3, “Copyright Notice.”

2)

And whether you tell the publisher or not, they'll know the minute they try to register the work, as all legitimate publishers do. And when they find out, as they must, they won't be happy that you didn't tell them

They won't know if it is registered as a new copyright which is defined as a major change:
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-register.html#published

How much do I have to change in my own work to make a new claim of copyright?
You may make a new claim in your work if the changes are substantial and creative, something more than just editorial changes or minor changes. This would qualify as a new derivative work. For instance, simply making spelling corrections throughout a work does not warrant a new registration, but adding an additional chapter would. See Circular 14, Copyright Registration for Derivative Works, for further information.

I'm not advocating that everyone should rush out and copyright their stuff. You're right. Your unpublished manuscript is probably worthless. No legitimate agent or publisher would steal it. But not everyone out there is legitimate. I can't site an example where it has happened, but neither can you prove that is hasn't.

Regardless, I still contend that copyrighting is not the kiss of death that many seem to imply.

Joe Calabrese · May 20, 2005

The key word there Roger is "published." Screenplays and Novels are not published until produced, printed, etc... What does the copyright office say about non-published works?

Roger J Carlson · May 20, 2005

Joe Calabrese said:
The key word there Roger is "published." Screenplays and Novels are not published until produced, printed, etc... What does the copyright office say about non-published works?

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-register.html#published

Does my work have to be published to be protected?
Publication is not necessary for copyright protection.

and

Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to make another registration when the work becomes published, although the copyright owner may register the published edition, if desired.

and

Unpublished Collections

Under the following conditions, a work may be registered in unpublished form as a "collection," with one application form and one fee:

The elements of the collection are assembled in an orderly form;

The combined elements bear a single title identifying the collection as a whole;

The copyright claimant in all the elements and in the collection as a whole is the same; and

All the elements are by the same author, or, if they are by different authors, at least one of the authors has contributed copyrightable authorship to each element.

An unpublished collection is not indexed under the individual titles of the contents but under the title of the collection.

JustinoXXV · May 21, 2005

There have been a couple of cases where someone one a law suit against someone for plagarizing their script.

So while I would encourage writers to worry about it, do register your work with the LOC and/or the WGA.

Also, keep hard or electronic copies of your old drafts, correspondanc that you've had with epople, etc.

And no, I don't think that LOC registration is the kiss of death for your career. If the publisher has decided to buy from you, or he she won't care.

ANd you are quite correct, you don't put the LOC registration info one a script.

An issue people may want to consider is that average writer has likely had a ton of people analyze and break down his/her script, before it gets to the stage where a legit producer/publisher/agent will take it. So chances are that your manuscript or screenplay will be out there like that, you may very well want to copyright it.

I don't think you need to register every draft, even if you final draft is totally different. If you keep old drafts you can so the progression from first draft to final draft.

Copyrights-related to "novelist..." thread

Roger J Carlson

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Jamesaritchie

Joe Calabrese

Roger J Carlson

Moderator In Name Only

Joe Calabrese

Roger J Carlson

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JustinoXXV