Is the Bible the Word of G-d?

Sean D. Schaffer · Jan 10, 2009

Hi, everyone,

I've been thinking about this for a couple hours, and the thought has not gone away. I know that some people believe that the Bible is either not the Word of G-d at all, or that parts of it are, and parts of it are not. Also, there are people who believe that it is entirely the Word of G-d, as well as a fourth group of people who have possibly other thoughts about it.

I'm going to start off by saying that, in the poll above, I myself have voted "Other Thoughts," because I have a Bible (NIV) that says certain portions are not found in the earliest existing texts, and that many ancient witnesses don't have those portions. Otherwise, I believe the Bible is all G-d's Word, and I'm not sure about the portions the NIV and other Bibles say aren't in the original texts.

Before I continue, I want to say what this thread is NOT intended to do:

I do NOT intend this thread to intimidate, prove wrong, or belittle any individual who believes differently than I do. I hope that this poll and accompanying thread can be absent of all the rhetoric that so many times will plague discussions about religion, or faith, or holy books.

Secondly, I will tell you what I DO intend this thread to do:

I DO intend this thread to open friendly discussion about what we all believe, and why. Too many times, a lot of us speak out of ignorance, telling others that they must believe everything we do (I know I've been guilty of this over the years) and if they don't they're not going to G-d's glorious Heaven. I believe that when we open our mouths and discuss our own beliefs about debatable issues such as this, we can gain the tools we need to bridge the gap between those we disagree with, and ourselves. Whether I agree with you or not, I most certainly can allow you to believe your way and still know that if you follow Christ, you are a fellow Christian and a brother or sister in the L-rd.

So I've given four voting options above:

1. The entire Bible is the Word of G-d.
2. Only parts of the Bible are the Word of G-d.
3. None of the Bible is the Word of G-d.
4. Other thoughts.

Please understand that I have no desire to see this thread descend into a heated or stressful argument. I simply want to understand what people believe, and why they believe it. I do not wish to judge anyone for their viewpoint, and I do hope that any following posters would keep their arguments as to why others' viewpoints are wrong, out of the realm of this particular thread. (Of course, whether this request is allowed or not really depends on the moderators of this forum, Roger J. Carlson and Pat~ respectively, so if what I've requested is not an appropriate request, I do hope one of them will let me know, as well as let others who subsequently post in this thread, know also.

)

Again, I do not wish to start a brawl in here. I simply want to understand differing viewpoints, and why people hold to them.

Thank you all kindly.

--Sean

vixey · Jan 10, 2009

Well....I remember getting into this discussion a few months ago.

I'm a Presbyterian. We believe the Bible is the "inspired Word of God," which is not on your list. I voted "other thoughts." I believe this means that God "spoke" to men and inspired them to write what they wrote. This means men interpreted (or maybe even channeled) what God told them to right, IMHO.

ETA: I believe what's written in the Bible is affected by the men who wrote it.

Ciera_ · Jan 10, 2009

I'm not quite sure why you replaced the 'o' in 'God' with a hyphen everywhere. Well, I can guess that it was to avoid offending people, but IMO, treating 'God' like a curse word is more offensive than just saying his name. Whether or not we believe in God, we can acknowledge that others do, and I think we can handle the way people who DO believe choose to spell the name of their, well, their god.
Anyway, I said none, though my thoughts are a little more complex. I'm agnostic, but let's for the sake of this thread say I believe in God. Okay, so, obviously I don't think that God disagrees with everything in the Bible. There's some good rudimentary stuff in there. But I don't necessarily think that any of it came from God or Jesus. It's kind of just basic common sense. Most Atheists know whether their actions are right or wrong, most people on Earth do have that sense of write and wrong, they just may not be scared (by threats of hell/exclusion from heaven) into doing what's 'good'.
Hope that made sense =)

trickywoo · Jan 10, 2009

I think it would be helpful if you could clarify what you mean by "word of God".

Sean D. Schaffer · Jan 10, 2009

trickywoo said:
I think it would be helpful if you could clarify what you mean by "word of God".

I mean "Divinely Inspired."

And thanks for posting.

Deleted member 42 · Jan 10, 2009

Ciera_ said:
I'm not quite sure why you replaced the 'o' in 'God' with a hyphen everywhere.

For a devout Jew, and many Christians, writing the name of the deity is offensive, and a violation of the Commandment. The name is itself sacred, and not to be written, used, or spoken lightly; it's why we have words like "Jehovah."

Mythical Tiger · Jan 10, 2009

I'm not meaning to offend anyone here, but I don't believe in god. So I voted that none of the bible is the word of god

.

Provrb1810meggy · Jan 10, 2009

If you just mean divinely inspired, then I think the whole Bible qualifies. I don't believe divinely inspired necessarily mean God gave the authors what to say word for word, however.

emandem · Jan 10, 2009

I believe most of the Bible is the inspired word of God. Actually, I agree with Vixey but I voted "part of the Bible is the word of God" instead of "other" (thinking that "word of God" just means inspired)... I agree in thinking that God inspired men to write passages of the Bible, but men (being human) prob. influenced the writing with their own opinions.

OK, now for an ignorant question: Do most Atheists agree that Jesus existed? And if so, do most still find Jesus' teachings useful--i.e. as a good code of living to follow?

Sean D. Schaffer · Jan 10, 2009

emandem said:
Snipped...

OK, now for an ignorant question: Do most Atheists agree that Jesus existed? And if so, do most still find Jesus' teachings useful--i.e. as a good code of living to follow?

There's a forum here that you might look into for asking that question. It's the Atheist/Non-Spiritual Writing forum, in the Religious and Spiritual Writing section. I think that would be a wonderful place for you to ask that question.

Provrb1810meggy · Jan 11, 2009

I came across some interesting phrases in my reading of Corinthians and thought they applied to this thread:

"Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord....I do not have a command from the Lord for them. But the Lord in his mercy has given me wisdom that can be trusted, and I will share it with you...I think I am giving you counsel from God's spirit when I say this." 1 Corinthians 7:12-40

This demonstrates a case where the advice herein was just that, advice and suggestions rather than commands, more so from the writer than God, although God's wisdom probably did influence the advice. At least that's how I interpreted it. Any thoughts on this?

scarletpeaches · Jan 11, 2009

I'm voting entirely the word of God.

As 2Tim 3:16 says, "All Scripture is inspired of God..." and the original word translated 'inspired' means 'God breathed'.

So inspired by God and originating from him, yes.

Roger J Carlson · Jan 11, 2009

The Bible says what God wants it to say. If the thoughts or opinions of the writers or translators affected it, those thoughts or opinions were also directed by God.

I've said this before, but I'll repeat: God created and controls the universe. It is inconceivable to me that He could somehow lose control of the means He created to communicate with mankind.

Sean D. Schaffer · Jan 11, 2009

Thank you all very kindly for your replies. You've all helped me to better understand how a lot of my fellow Christians as well as some non-Christians think.

I hope that perhaps this thread will make a good springboard for opening discussions here and elsewhere that will lead to better understanding and kindness between peoples who, though they might all call themselves Christians, will still have differing views on their faith.

I truly respect each and every person who has posted in this thread. Thank you all very much for keeping the discussion civil and friendly, even in spite of many, many differences between us on more things than just the Bible itself.

I'm going to go ahead and leave this discussion now. I hope that the friendliness we've all used in talking about our differences concerning the inspiration of the Holy Bible will continue, and that someday many people of many different denominations and varying belief structures might come to be reconciled to each other in common, Christ-glorifying love for one another. I believe the Church as a whole will never fulfill the command that Christ gave in His Great Commission, until all those who follow Him as their Messiah turn from their single-track belief that only those who agree with them are right, and instead embrace all followers of the Savior as brothers and sisters in Him.

And just in case anyone here might be wondering why I sound like I'm leaving more than just this discussion, I am leaving the boards entirely. For reasons that I have detailed in my thread "Trying To Leave" in Office Party, I have decided to distance myself from forums altogether ... at least for awhile.

I pray that G-d will richly bless every one of you, and that the love of Christ might fill all your hearts to overflowing.

--Sean

KTC · Jan 11, 2009

I think everything said is said of God. If you believe in God, you believe that everything in this universe is inside said being. Therefore, everything spoken is spoken from His lips...not only the bible.

emandem · Jan 11, 2009

In response to statements upthread, I agree God created and controls the universe...but I also think He gave man free will, and man's free will tends to usurp God's best plans at times.

Pat~ · Jan 11, 2009

Provrb1810meggy said:
I came across some interesting phrases in my reading of Corinthians and thought they applied to this thread:

"Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord....I do not have a command from the Lord for them. But the Lord in his mercy has given me wisdom that can be trusted, and I will share it with you...I think I am giving you counsel from God's spirit when I say this." 1 Corinthians 7:12-40

This demonstrates a case where the advice herein was just that, advice and suggestions rather than commands, more so from the writer than God, although God's wisdom probably did influence the advice. At least that's how I interpreted it. Any thoughts on this?

Great question. The way I see it is that Paul in this chapter is very carefully distinguishing in his letter of response to the Corinthians (apparently concerning some specific questions or problems they raised) which part of his answer to them was 'personal conviction,' which part was Jesus' command from the time of His earthly ministry ("from the Lord"), and which part was him speaking as one sent out from the Lord, with His message (referring to his apostolic authority). This is not to say that some scripture is not "inspired" though--the fact that Paul delineates which part is divine directive vs. personal conviction is itself the inspired Truth of God. In other words, some of what Paul says in this chapter is not divine command--yet his saying so is divinely inspired truth.

Alvah · Jan 11, 2009

I think the Bible is inspired by God, but is not literally
the word of God. We don't even have original texts for the
Gospels, the earliest manuscripts are Greek translations.
So we have no record of the exact words Jesus spoke.

The best argument I've read, for believing the Gospel is
inspired by God is that if it isn't, then Christians would be deprived of
God's guidance while waiting for Christ to return.
Since God is just, He would not leave humanity without
a true source of spiritual guidance, therefore it is reasonable to
believe the true message of Jesus has been retained
in the Gospel.

Roger J Carlson · Jan 12, 2009

emandem said:
In response to statements upthread, I agree God created and controls the universe...but I also think He gave man free will, and man's free will tends to usurp God's best plans at times.

I agree that God gave man free will. However, I cannot agree that man's free will has usurped God's best plans. In order to determine that, you'd have to know for sure what God's plans are. Can you do that? I sure can't.

Jeremiah 29:11 (NIV) "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

emandem · Jan 12, 2009

Roger, I guess what I meant was that I know God didn't intend for rape, murder, etc. to exist in the universe... If you take Adam and Eve in literal terms, I'm sure that (although God created and controlled their world), it wasn't in His "best plans" for Eve to taste the apple. Or was it? I guess God could have created the universe knowing that man would mess things up royally.... You're right, I don't know.

Going back to the bible being the inspired word of God. I believe that the vast majority of it is the word of God, but sometimes I'll read something in there and think the writer's own opinions influenced it.

ALLWritety · Jan 13, 2009

I believe the whole Bible to be the inspired word of God, but i also think that some parts are MORE inspired than others!!!

Kev

windyrdg · Jan 13, 2009

I think Roger's first post says just about what I intended to say. The Bible conveys the message God wanted it to convey. How he went about that I really don't know. Then again, I don't where the ideas in some of my books come from either, they just sorta happen.

AMCrenshaw · Jan 15, 2009

"mythopoeia"

AMC

virtue_summer · Jan 16, 2009

I think I have an unusual view (at least in comparison to most people I know). Here's what I believe:

God shared his word with the prophets who shared it with others. Jesus, being in a sense God incarnate, was the Word of God and he spread the word to others, including the apostles who were to spread it to others.

People through the years, probably afraid of losing the word, or simply so inspired by it, decided to write it down. Over the years many documents expressing all of these spiritual experiences came into being and eventually someone (yes, a person) decided to put them together into one book. This is the Bible.

In my opinion, the Bible contains a lot of truth and I certainly believe in Jesus and his mission. But I don't believe the Bible was that mission. Jesus' messages were originally spread by word of mouth and this is the original way I envision most of God's messages were intended. The Bible was in some ways a great idea because it gathered up writings of these messages in order to preserve them for future generations. I also believe that it obscures the messages in some ways because it leaves people arguing over translations and interpretations of individual words, carrying them away from the spirit.

There are only a few parts of the Bible that seem to me to even be implied to be the direct word of god: The 10 commandments and the words of Jesus are two of these. Other than that I believe the Bible contains wisdom and stories that aide our spirituality but that these are on occasion colored by the influence of their writers who were humans writing in certain times and cultures. In my opinion, God doesn't need a book to speak to a person. The book (actually books) helps sometimes but God existed, and interacted with his creations, long before writing was ever invented in the first place.

Pat~ · Jan 16, 2009

I believe all scripture was/is supernaturally God-breathed and contains God-inspired Truth. That doesn't mean that every word in scripture expresses God's thoughts on things--as in the example above (1 Corinthians 7), even Paul differentiated between what his opinion was and what God's view on things was. And that difference was 'absolutely true.' If you read Ecclesiastes, you hear Solomon bewail how meaningless life is--that's not God's opinion about things, but was 'truly' the state of Solomon's heart at the time of writing that. It also doesn't mean that Christians necessarily have to claim that everything in the Bible 'literally' happened--obviously some of the Bible literature is parable; Jesus used story frequently to express God-breathed Truth. I would even go so far as to say that because of that, it's irrelevant and derailing to worry about how much of the Bible 'literally' happened (eg. the story of Job); if God uses 'word' to express truth, we as writers all know that truths can be expressed even in fable or fiction. C.S. Lewis had a fascinating view on this; he believed that long before we even had the written word, 'myth' (which evolved from the oral tradition) has always been the vehicle of God for transmitting truth--and that it has reflected God's truth, though to varying degrees (which is why so many of the ancient myths contain similarities). And he believed that scripture is the only 'perfect myth'... which was not to say it contained untruth, but to say it--specifically the gospel--was 'the myth turned fact'--it contained the epitome of God's truth. Here's an excerpt from the article, "The Unfundamental C. S. Lewis," (referring to Lewis' Voyage of the Dawn Treader story):

I believe one hears Lewis himself speaking through the character of Lucy when she says, "a good story is a story which reminds her of the forgotten story in the Magician's Book." The forgotten story is what Lewis frequently refers to as the myth that became fact. Here are C. S. Lewis's own words as he is faced with the story of redemption in the gospels:

"If ever a myth had become a fact, had been incarnated, it would be just like this. And nothing else in all literature was just like this. Myths were like it in one way. Histories were like it in another. But nothing was simply like it . . . Here and here only in all time the myth must have become fact; the Word, flesh; God, man. This is not "a religion," nor "a philosophy." It is the summing up and actuality of them all."

For Lewis, the myths of old, which he was familiar with from his education, contained hints and shadows of God's truth, but these were only understood partially. They are, as Carol Hamilton writes, "unformed forecasts of God's ultimate plan." It is in the Gospel, as no where else, that the great stories of myth find their ultimate fleshing out in historical fact.

This theme of myth becoming fact has been described by Lewis as the "romantic longing" in man. It is the longing for something transcendent, mythical and infinite to enter the finite bodily creature bound in space and time. We are, as Lewis says in The Weight of Glory, always longing and trying to capture something, trying "to get in." Lewis spends much time contemplating this longing and frequently asks the question whether we can find any spell which offers genuine "refreshment of the spirit"--lasting refreshment unaffected by the corrosive and eroding powers of time. Lewis believes this refreshment is possible in myths and stories and believes that is the way they have been revealed to man . . . in the form of myth and story. --Duncan Sprague

Is the Bible the Word of G-d?

What Parts of the Bible (if any) are the Word of G-d?

The Entire Bible is the Word of G-d.

Only Part of the Bible is the Word of G-d.

None of the Bible is the Word of G-d.

Other Thoughts.

C'est la vie!

Ciera_

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