Does a non-fiction proposal NEED sample chapters when...

AndrewG · Jan 8, 2009

How necessary are sample chapters for a non-fiction book proposal?

People recommend including a sample or two so that agents can get to know your work, but the case is different for me.

I have an entire blog with hundreds of articles that show my work and style. So for me, is it necessary?

Thanks!

popmuze · Jan 8, 2009

They don't need a sample chapter just to take a look at your work. They need it to see how you are going to approach this particular project, what your voice will be, where the chapter begins and ends, where it fits into the entire project.

It's possible to get a contract without one (I did) but I think the better the
sample chapter, the more you can get for the book. That's why the best possible sample chapter is one that has already appeared in Esquire or Vanity Fair.

AndrewG · Jan 8, 2009

Thanks popmuze! That makes much more sense.

scope · Jan 8, 2009

Re nonfiction queries, I'd only send sample chapters if agents/editors requested same in their guidelines, If not, a query letter (or cover letter) and proposal is usually asked for.

DerekJager · Jan 9, 2009

I sent a query for my NF and the agents asked for two (2) sample chapters. (My manuscript was complete.) Then they asked for the proposal.

popmuze · Jan 9, 2009

In my answer I was definitely referring to what a publisher will want when you're submitting a proposal (hopefully after you get an agent).

It's possible to get an agent, I think, without a sample chapter. The agent can tell from the proposal (and all your writing samples) if they think it's something they can sell in today's market, and if you have enough of a platform to be the ideal writer.

Two sample chapters is a little bit much, especially if you have some kind of track record.

veinglory · Jan 9, 2009

I would, personally, expect sample chapters in most non-fiction book proposals, or if not included ready to send immediately upon request.

scope · Jan 9, 2009

Proposal only?

popmuze said:
In my answer I was definitely referring to what a publisher will want when you're submitting a proposal (hopefully after you get an agent).

Not sure I understand. If without an agent you are submitting to a publisher, just follow their guidelines and send what they ask for. However, even if they don't initially ask for a sample chapter(s), expect them to ask for same if they like your initial submission.

It's possible to get an agent, I think, without a sample chapter. The agent can tell from the proposal (and all your writing samples) if they think it's something they can sell in today's market, and if you have enough of a platform to be the ideal writer.

I've never heard of an agent signing a writer based on an idea and a platform, nonfiction or fiction (perhaps they do with a celeb). I'm quite sure that at some point you'll have to produce 1-3 sample chapters for review.

Two sample chapters is a little bit much, especially if you have some kind of track record.

g

June Casagrande · Jan 9, 2009

What Popmuze said. They don't want to see a full range of your abilities. They want to see what they're buying.

dogsoldier · Jan 9, 2009

I've never run into an agent for NF who does not request a sample chapter. Agents want to see your writing, especially if you are submitting a narrative nonfiction proposal, and how you prepare the proposal may differ considerably from how you write the book.

popmuze · Jan 9, 2009

I was just referring to the initial query to an agent: a letter stating Would you be interested in seeing my book about the History of Hang Gliding. If they all say no, then you have to figure you've got a fairly unsalable book. If someone says yes, then you have to submit a proposal, undoubtedly with a sample chapter.

skyscrape32 · Jan 14, 2009

Provide the sample chapters if they already replied to your proposal

scope · Jan 14, 2009

popmuze said:
I was just referring to the initial query to an agent: a letter stating Would you be interested in seeing my book about the History of Hang Gliding. If they all say no, then you have to figure you've got a fairly unsalable book. If someone says yes, then you have to submit a proposal, undoubtedly with a sample chapter.

I may be wrong, but it seems as if you do not intend to do the agent research required before submitting anything, even though you really have to. It seems as if you only want to send a query letter to all agents, no matter what they ask for in their guidelines. You really should research agents, select those to whom you want to submit and follow their guidelines. Send them what they ask for, not what you want. It's to your advantage.

popmuze · Jan 15, 2009

scope said:
Re nonfiction queries, I'd only send sample chapters if agents/editors requested same in their guidelines, If not, a query letter (or cover letter) and proposal is usually asked for.

That's pretty much what I do, except I usually send the query letter first and the rest if they express interest in the query. This may only work for me because I've already published ten books on the subject I'm querying.

AndrewG · Jan 15, 2009

Thanks for all the advice. Appreciate it!

popmuze said:
That's pretty much what I do, except I usually send the query letter first and the rest if they express interest in the query. This may only work for me because I've already published ten books on the subject I'm querying.

What genre to you write in popmuze?

-Andrew

scope · Jan 18, 2009

popmuze said:
That's pretty much what I do, except I usually send the query letter first and the rest if they express interest in the query. This may only work for me because I've already published ten books on the subject I'm querying.

The fact that you have had ten books published on the subject helps, but it will not be the defining reason why an agent may want to represent you. When I was looking for an agent the fact that I had many more nonfiction books published certainly helped, but what it initially boiled down to it was my query letter and what I was pitching. Several agents were interested, but others were not. As I suggested earlier, just follow the agents guidelines and send what they ask for. I wouldn't send partials, fulls, or samples with my first query unless so indicated in the guidelines. However, others who post here believe that doing so can't hurt. So, in the end you have to do what you think is best.

Good luck.

platinumscript · Jan 22, 2009

Scope is being very pragmatic... and professional. The natural inclination would be to send out the entire complete proposal when getting a request for material... why have to go through the bother of having to later send out extra components now being requested when you can kill 2 birds with one package? The agents want what they want. Makes sense to give 'em exactly what they asked for, not what you are 'sure' they must want.
I've seen some agent preferences in books and scratch my head sometimes at what I sometimes perceive as a request lacking all of the what I would call 'requisite' components required to make an informed decision. Surely they won't mind if I just add a little here and there... to assist them. Then you wonder iif they are going to think 'can't this guy get it through his head... the format we requested is clear and simple... another 'know-it-all that can't follow instructions.
It's especially hard to resist loading 'em up when it's an email submission. An easy attachment and no extra postage for the extras!
When all is said and done Scope is right. If they want more... they will ask for it. Enjoy your day.

DerekJager · Jan 22, 2009

It also helps (for you and the agent) to tell them exactly what you are offering.

In other words, end your query with: "If you'd like to read the proposal and/or sample chapters, please let me know."

And, of course, be ready to send the proposal immediately!

Good luck!

susangpyp · Jan 23, 2009

My book was also based on a blog with hundreds of entries. I still sent two sample chapters to agents who requested the proposal. After I got an agent, we edited them quite a bit before we sent them out to editors and then the editor requested a third (which I had already written and passed by my agent before sending). Have them ready and very very polished!

etali · Jan 24, 2009

If your blog is written in the same kind of style / voice as the book will be, then you may not need sample chapters.

I recently got my first book contract. I already had a working relationship with the publisher, which was probably a very good 'foot in the door', but I didn't need to send a sample chapter right away. They sent me their guidelines for the style of book (a Beginner's Guide), and asked me to write a sample in the house style.

Since this is my first book, I don't know if this is a common way of doing things, but it does make sense - my regular writing style is very different to their house style, so they need to know that I can write in a way that fits them.

scope · Jan 24, 2009

etali,

Re the recent first book contract you refer to: Is this work for hire? What do you mean " ....asked me to write a sample in the house style."?

Timinator · Jan 25, 2009

For both of my published NF books, I submitted a proposal with the outline. In each case, a sample chapter was requested. Once submitted and reviewed then the offer was made. Submitting a chapter shows that you've made more of a commitment to the book than just an outline or proposal. And it demonstrates the voice and technique that you'll be using for the proposed title.

etali · Jan 26, 2009

scope said:
etali,

Re the recent first book contract you refer to: Is this work for hire? What do you mean " ....asked me to write a sample in the house style."?

The sample was requested from me after I submitted a book proposal to the publisher. After they saw the sample they asked for a detailed outline, and then gave me the contract for the book.

It seems like a traditional publishing contract, from what I know (although this is my first book, so I don't know that much) - there's an advance, payed in instalments as chapters are delivered, then I 'earn out' the advance through royalties, and assuming the book sells lots of copies, any extra royalties will be paid at set intervals.

Does a non-fiction proposal NEED sample chapters when...

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