Political incorrectness in Raymond Chandler's The Big Sleep

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I'm in the middle of Raymond Chandler's Big Sleep. I watched the movie some time in the last few years but I don't remember what happens, and in any case usually movies diverge from books they're based on a great deal.

I was interested in the political incorrectness I discovered in The Big Sleep. The book was written in 1939, so it incorporated the common prejudices of the time.

Early on in the book, Philip Marlowe describes a minor character as looking like an "intelligent Jewess."

But the homosexual stereotype is what got me to sit up and take notice. Read this bit of dialogue. Philip Marlowe is investigating a pimp who runs a dirty book business. The pimp gets murdered, so his homosexual boyfriend gets revenge and kills the man he thinks killed his lover. Philip Marlowe chases him down and they have this confrontation.

"Who said I had a key?"

"Don't kid me son. The fag gave you one. You've got a nice clean manly little room in there. He shooed you out and locked it up when he had lady visitors. He was like Caesar, a husband to woman and a wife to men. Think I can't figure people like him and you out?"

I still held the automatic more or less pointed at him, but he swung on me just the same. It caught me flush on the chin. I backstepped fast enough to keep from falling, but I took plenty of the punch. It was meant to be a hard one, but a pansy has no iron in his bones, whatever he looks like.

***

I also found it interesting how they used to wouldn't let writers use the f-word.

The homosexual character's only line in the book which he repeated over and over was Go---yourself.

Raymond Chandler had to use a long emm dash in place of the word.

A decade later in The Naked and the Dead, Norman Mailer had to substitute the word, fug which his characters said constantly.

One night when he went to a party, Norman Mailer noted that a lady met him and said, "you're the writer who doesn't know how to spell fuck."
 

Clair Dickson

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If you go back to Nathanial Hawthorne, they 'bleeped' all the curses. And rarely used them even in bleeped form.

It wasn't political correctness (that's a new idea). It was that it was considered indecent. "Good" people allegedly didn't use those words and it was considered inappropriate to put them in print. Just like you still don't have the f-word spoken outright on TV.

Want some interesting reading... check out the Hayes Production codes for movies!
 
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Actually, my reference to the history of the use of the f-word was a different topic than the political incorrectness I noted in the rest of my post.
 

veinglory

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Oh yes, and anyone who read Fleming's Bond books knows his tendency to suggest that giving women the vote made them into lesbians etc.
 

GirlWithPoisonPen

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What Chandler was writing wasn't politically incorrect at the time.

And I know voting has turned me into a lesbian. NOT. Oh, my dear Mr. Flemming. :: shakes head ::
 

Chase

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So then Wyoming where women voted first in the states has the most lesbians? How does one tell? My sister says one way is "they" all drive Subarus.

I remember "instructive" observations in Terry and the Pirates, a Sunday comic strip during the wartime 1940s telling how tell Japanese from Chinese. It was chock full of the worst racist sterotypes--such as bucked teeth, poor posture (from wearing footwear with wood blocks, I remember), poor eyesight, and the inability to say words with "L." It was all pure drivel, but quite "politically correct" at the time.
 

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That's not being politically incorrect. It really isn't. I really wish people would stop mis-using the phrase.

The thing with Chandler's Phillip Marlowe is that that's the way the character is; he'd be that way today, too. It's not like people like him aren't fairly common.
 

donroc

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Yes, Chander accurately reflected the times.

L.A. had an extremely prejudiced population in the 1930s and beyond. I remember as a child we were denied access to apartments in Hollywood because we were Jewish. That was 1938 during the year my parents moved from SF and tried to improve their lot during the Depression. Are you Jews? was the first question they asked my parents. As late as the 1950s and perhaps beyond the cops would refer to UCLA as JewCLA, and well into the 1960s mixed race couples were hassled as well by cops and by apartment managers.
 

Gillhoughly

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Like Chandler and Hammett, my parents were products of their times. They were polite to people, but if anyone was a "H" or a "n" they'd say the word behind their backs.

I wasn't allowed to use those words, not until I got older.

By the time I got older I flat out refused to use them. They disgust me.

One should read the older books as they give us a gauge of the times they were written and an example of what to avoid these days. Include me out of any crowd that wants to "correct" them. History is history, you can't learn from sanitizing the bad bits.

Without names or skin showing we are all alike. I don't understand why so many people can't grasp it.

It certainly helped that I became a Star Trek geek. Who cares about a person's skin color or religion when you're dealing with galactic wars, shape-shifting aliens, and Captain Kirk's latest girl friend?

We may raz him, but I owe a lot to the likes of Roddenberry for getting me outside the confines of prejudice.

Ditto for Archie Bunker. I can't tell you how many kids at my school, myself as well, would groan, "Oh, my dad's just like him!"

Archie taught us what not to do.

And for grins I'll repeat one of my recent posts:

"Let's face it, sweetheart. . .without Jews, fags and gypsies, there is no theatre. --- Mel Brooks

51YFXGEJFCL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

 

Axler

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One night when he went to a party, Norman Mailer noted that a lady met him and said, "you're the writer who doesn't know how to spell fuck."

I believe that was Dorothy Parker...or at least, attributed to her.

As for Milton Caniff's "How to Spot A Jap"...

That whole embarrassing yet weirdly hilarious strip was recently resurrected in Volume 4 of IDW's Terry and the Pirates reprint series.

howtojap02.jpg
 

Kate Thornton

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We just call "politeness" by the PC name these days - but manners change every time the world changes.

Literature usually makes a stab at reflecting the manners of its current setting - so if you are reading Terry & the Pirates from WWII, you'll find things that were perfectly acceptable then but not considered polite for today's usage.

All writing can be a mirror of its time, and that is part of its value as well as its charm. Would I go back and change anything? (I'm thinking of Mark Twain, Gore Vidal and Raymond Chandler as well as Terry & The Pirates)

No. It is what it was.

I wouldn't change Jane Austen, either - although the idea that a family of marriage-aged girls needed to be married off and quickly for the family to survive is creepy to me in today's context.
 

Vito

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I routinely find all sorts of political incorrectness while reading classic mysteries and crime fiction. Here's two of the most memorable examples:

There's a short story by Dashiell Hammett titled "Dead Yellow Women" that has some brutally insulting characterizations of Chinese-Americans. Hammett makes some snide remarks about the appearance, hygiene, and personal character of Chinese-Americans that will blow you away. Keep in mind that Hammett was a Marxist/communist, and supposedly believed in the equality of all men and women.

One of John D. MacDonald's early "Travis McGee" novels, The Quick Red Fox (published in 1964, I think), has an outrageous scene in which Travis takes on two golf-club wielding lesbians in a fight. MacDonald describes these two women in an incredibly crude and demeaning way. Then, Travis wrestles the golf club away from one of the women and uses it to swat her on the butt. Extremely insensitive by today's standards -- by any standard, really.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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I think you got it right when you described this stuff as "the common prejudices of the time" and wrong when you described it as "political incorrectness."


Eventually, this stuff will just seem bizarre to us: perhaps as bizarre as this:

My husband and I were watching the "Jeeves" TV shows with Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie last night, and he asked me why Gussie Fink-Nottle has a speech impediment. "To show that he's Jewish, silly," I said, forgetting that my husband has not spent most of his life reading crap 19th-century novels.

Yes, in English novels of the 19th century, including Daniel Deronda, Jewish characters are portrayed as lisping and having trouble with the "r" and "l" sounds. (This is as not completely out of the blue as it might sound, as most of the Jewish people who lived in England at that time were descended from Spanish and Portuguese Jews, and many had Ladino as their first language--which would make it more likely for them to have trouble with the English phonemes that were rarely if ever used in Ladino--but of course it's at least as much of a lazy and inaccurate caricature as the invariably Irish-American cop's brogue in US fiction of the same era.)

By the time Wodehouse comes around, the music-hall Jew is invariably a comic figure (see also E.F. Benson), but an instantly recognizable one to English readers of that era.

So I explain all of this, and I said, "That's one of the reasons why he's not considered a desirable marriage partner, despite being rich, and why he's so delighted to marry a sap like Madeline Bassett." My husband says "Oh, I thought it was just the newts."
 

Vincent

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Marlowe wasn't the most tactful guy around, yanno.
 

euclid

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I recently finished reading "For Whom the Bell Tolls" by E Hemmingway. He uses words like "profanity", "unprintable" instead of swear words. It's quite funny, but works perfectly well. Same vintage as Chandler.
 

rugcat

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One of John D. MacDonald's early "Travis McGee" novels, The Quick Red Fox (published in 1964, I think), has an outrageous scene in which Travis takes on two golf-club wielding lesbians in a fight. MacDonald describes these two women in an incredibly crude and demeaning way. Then, Travis wrestles the golf club away from one of the women and uses it to swat her on the butt. Extremely insensitive by today's standards -- by any standard, really.
That's exactly the scene that popped into my head when I started reading this thread. MacDonald's Travis McGee, was unbelievably chauvinistic and sexist, hidden behind a veneer of supposed progressive thought.

Some of the early books are cringeworthy -- even for the times. But to give him credit, Travis (and MacDonald) became more aware as the years passed, like many of his generation, though he still never quite got it. Still, I learned a lot about writing from those books, and McGee is as strong and real as any series character I can think of.