Prologue & Epilogue?

I've never had a problem with prologues myself. I've seen quite a few people on different writing forums express a dislike for them.

Yesterday I bought three science fiction novels, Redemption Ark by Alastair Reynolds (2002), Brass Man by Neal Asher (2005) and The Dreaming Void by Peter F Hamilton (2007). All three have a prologue. Two of them (Reynolds and Asher) have an epilogue. Draw whatever conclusions you like from that small sample.

Cheers,
Rob

Some people like prologues, other people don't.

I don't mind prologues if they're mercifully short, but long ones I find tedious and will usually skip them or only scan them.

Here's a sampling of other discussions on the topic, for additional reading. The first two are pretty long, as prologue/epilogue threads tend to cause a lot of controversy. Enjoy.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88473
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111968
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108526
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88931
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25040
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69724

Chaos, I'm sure there are MORE than those. Hehe.

LOL! There are, but I didn't want to overwhelm TnD.

jennifer75 said:

Chaos, I'm sure there are MORE than those. Hehe.

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I think someone tried to combine the prologue threads, the outlining or not outlining threads, the serial comma threads, and the "How do you name your characters?" threads one time and it created a tear in the space-time continuum.

It's funny, I've only been a member for 2 years, which by the way my Anny is coming up....wooohooo......but I've seen quite a few threads reinvented over that time and always get stumped...."didnt we just answer that question...." is a common thought for me. The member count sure is rising.

alleycat said:

I think someone tried to combine the prologue threads, the outlining or not outlining threads, the serial comma threads, and the "How do you name your characters?" threads one time and it created a tear in the space-time continuum.

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LOL!

i have a prologue in my debut.
no epilogue, tho the ending ties in with the
prologue.

my editor had no issues with my prologue--
maligned as it is by some writers and readers.

i always read them myself.

My interpretation of the hatred for prologues: prologues have a tendency to become info dumps.

But, if the prologue is simply a section of the story that can't be fit in somewhere else (like if the events in the prologue happen 20 years before the real story starts), it can work very well but only if connections are made.

Miguelito said:

My interpretation of the hatred for prologues: prologues have a tendency to become info dumps.

But, if the prologue is simply a section of the story that can't be fit in somewhere else (like if the events in the prologue happen 20 years before the real story starts), it can work very well but only if connections are made.

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hey, that's my prologue exactly! ha!

took place about 20 years before the story...

I always felt these sections were skippable. As in, if a reader feels like having some background first, they can read it. If not, they can skip it and still be fine at "the end" (though, please don't write that if you want me to read your next novel).

If done well, a prologue can add to the book. But also, sometimes readers skip prologues -- we can go into a huge discussion on that (and we have), but the fact remains, some see prologues as "outside" of the main story, thus not necessarily relevant or important, so they skip it.

If your story needs a prologue, then do it. If you have a prologue just because, or if you're info dumping, or if you just stick a backstory in a prologue which can easily be cut out or integrated into the main story... then you may want to rethink.

I tend to view prologues as first chapter -- if it grabs me, then you do a good job and I'll read on. If your prologue sucks, you risk losing me.

But I take issue with the following:

TnD said:

Personally, I think the prologue gives the reader a glimpse into what's going to happen. I.E. A taste of the story, before starting at the beginning. Sort of like the really quick action scene at the beginning of the movie, before the actual movie begins.

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It depends on how you do it. In Fight Club, for example, the beginning is something like that and the rest of the story is kind of a flashback. It works. But he also made it 1st chapter instead of a prologue, but the function is just the same.

But if you're only doing a prologue to give "just a taste of the story," I would ask: Why? Why not just suck your readers right in and start proper? Why a "preview"? And are you going to follow up with a first chapter that is just as riveting? Or is your first chapter boring and simply background stuff? To me, that just makes me wonder if the writer knows how to start a story, or if he/she is confident enough. It's like loitering at the door, unsure when to make an entrance.

Be mindful that the beginning of your story is very important, whether you do a prologue or not. The fact is, some agents also would skip prologues when considering partials, so if you put a lot of effort into a prologue and then your first chapter just sags, you will have a problem with the agents.

Epilogues, on the other hand, I have been told are specifically to tidy up loose ends and not to include any 'new' information. However, I have one (in my first 'attempt' at a novel) which does tidy up those 'loose ends' but also sets up the option of a sequel.

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If it's your first novel, I'd say this is not very advisable, especially to set up a sequel. To me, your first novel should be stand-alone. Such an epilogue (especially the "what happened to everyone" type of tidying up loose ends) would come off as amateurish. There really is no reason to tidy all loose ends at the end. As long as you have a satisfying conclusion to your book, stop. Don't linger and tell us what Aunt Reba and Uncle Frank did one year since the event. In a way, it's like the author has troubles ending the book. End it already.

TnD said:

Personally, I think the prologue gives the reader a glimpse into what's going to happen. I.E. A taste of the story, before starting at the beginning.

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Why do you need to tell a reader what's going to happen? Why not just tell things as they happen?

caw

I fear that if I give a prologue, it gives too much information of coming.

I'm lenient with prologues and epilogues. If a story needs them, then great. If they're just summaries or infodumps, then lose them.

I use "flashback" prologues (I don't use epilogues nearly as much) in my novels at times--they ARE related to the story, and they aren't told in the summary style that a lot of new writers (mis)use the prologue for. I never even knew there was such a stigma against the prologue until coming here. Now I'm mad at the writers who misuse them to give a big stupid history lesson that doesn't even directly pertain to the story before getting on with it. They've ruined the prologue for writers like me who actually know how to use it (I hope). My stories can be confusing if readers skip the prologues, so I've had to put notes on the first chapters to tell them the prologues are part of the story!

There's always the advice to "Call it Chapter 1 if you really want to keep it," but I don't know, there's just something kind of different about a prologue that necessitates the name "Prologue"...but again, it's often a matter of opinion.

If you're intent on publication you might be better off calling them Chapter 1 and Final Chapter, but keep in mind this is coming from somebody not trying to get published. I call my prologues prologues and I use them as they're meant to be used (I hope).

TnD said:

Prologue : The taste of things to come, I meant like an action scene from later in the book. I've seen it used and it kept me wanting to read more, just to find out what the scene was about. Granted, I'm not using it in the novel I'm working on, I just wanted general opinions.

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For me, this kind of prologue only works for certain types of fiction. For example, I mentioned Fight Club (although he made it the first chapter instead of a prologue) -- it's a thriller with a sort of "everything goes to shit" kind of ending, and the book is basically a flashback of how things got to that point... plus it's very psychological (anyone who's read the book or seen the movie knows what I'm talking about), so it works in that sense.

Peter Jackson added a prologue to Fellowship of the Ring because it's cinematically more interesting than starting with the Shire.

If you want to bring a later action scene to the front and make it a prologue, you have to ask and answer these questions: Why? Is it because your first chapter sucks? Or that you can't plunge the readers right in the story so you have to do that "well, see something exciting is going to happen... read on!"? What is the purpose of that prologue -- do you do it just because it sounds cool? What effect you want it to have? Because in essence, if you have that kind of a prologue, the main story up to that point would become essentially a flashback. If that's what you want, that's fine.

Then there's the whole thing about people skipping prologues -- like it or not, some readers do. Then what? Are you going to lose that effect, especially if your first chapter doesn't move? Palahnuik made his "prologue" first chapter, and I think he was smart to do that.

TnD said:

But, it's not really long enough to qualify as a chapter. 1000-1500 words or so.

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It's long enough. The first chapter in The Kite Runner is only two pages long (about 700 words?). He could have made it a prologue (again, that chapter served as one), but instead he made it Chapter 1. It worked.

The first chapter in Fight Club wasn't long either -- I think it's about four pages (or 1000 words).

TnD said:

But, it's not really long enough to qualify as a chapter. 1000-1500 words or so.

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That's long enough to be a short chapter.

Cheers,
Rob

This is way OT, but TnD, I just saw one of your posts on another thread and I couldn't help noticing your avitar. I have always wanted a couple of llamas. One of these days, when we move out of the 'burbs and into the country, I'm getting my llamas!

Bad Reason to Have a Prologue: My universe was created this way, and the gods did this and that, and such and such historical stuff happened.

Good Reason to have a Prologue: Close up to pivotal event/person that sets in motion later events of the story, but is separated from the main plot by years or miles, and asks more questions than it answers.

Bad Reason to Have an Epilogue: Ten pages of comfort and joy for the characters I put through hell, but now I'm taking the edge off by giving them pretty wives, wealth, and long life spans. Any combination of "happy" and "after."

Good Reason to Have an Epilogue: I can't think of one at the moment ... but there are good ones out there.