Theme of the Week: Omnipresence of God

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Pat~

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I've been thinking about this one all week, but with the Christmas activities, am just now getting to post it! Theme of the Week (we'll go into next week, too) is the Omnipresence of God.

Immanuel, or Emmanuel, is a Hebrew word meaning "God with us." It is a name for God closely associated with the Christmas story and the coming of the Messiah:


Isaiah 7:14 (New International Version)

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23 (New International Version)

23"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"—which means, "God with us."


One of my favorite passages concerning the inescapable presence of God is from a psalm of David, already posted in another thread here, but perfect for this one as well:

Psalm 139
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.

2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.

3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.

4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.

5 You hem me in—behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?


8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,"

12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you....
 
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heyjude

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I've been explaining (badly, but trying) this very concept to my kids, aged 5 and 3. The 3 year old is asking the typical questions: "If God is everywhere, is He in the drain?" Cute.

The other day I told him there would be a scary part in a movie coming up and he just shrugged. "I won't be afraid, Mom," he said. "'Cause if God is everywhere, He's with me."

How simple, how desirable, is the faith of a child.
 

ALLWritety

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Hi
Don't know if this goes here or start a new thread. Mods feel free to move it if need be.

I have a Q? I'm not trying to cause a big arguement this is a Q i have pondered and really interested in the answer. Are there any ground rules for the theme of the week?

If God omnipresent then what about HELL?

Doesn't the Bible talk of Hell being eternal seperation from God? So wouldn't that make hell the only place where God is not?

Kev
 
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Pat~

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Kev, great question, and one I've pondered, too...and could probably ponder some more, though I'm not sure if I'll discover any more complete answer about it. Just some first thoughts, though...

God is omnipresent--but also is said in the Bible to have 'withdrawn His presence' from people or places at times throughout history (eg. from King Saul, from the Israelite nation, etc.). So I'm wondering if that means God's omnipresence refers to His nature to be present everywhere, but it also does not negate His prerogative to withdraw that divine presence? Similar to His omnipotence--He is all-powerful, but He certainly withholds the operation of that power at His own prerogative as it suits His will.

Hell, as I understand it, is a place of the future, originally created for Satan and his fallen angels, but also described as a place of future judgment for those who have chosen to follow and serve him instead of Christ. It's not that it's impossible for God to be there; in fact, Christ is said in the Bible to have descended into 'hell' after His death on the cross (alternately translated as 'hades', which is the current residence of souls who have passed on without knowing/accepting Christ). But in Revelation, after the Second Coming of Christ and the Great White Throne judgment where Satan and his followers are cast into hell, we're given no indication that God would ever choose to go there, but will instead reside only in heaven with His children who will serve and worship Him for eternity. He won't impose His presence on those who have freely and finally rejected Him.
 
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Pat~

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And here's a second thought. Hell, I believe, (like heaven) is not simply a place of the future--but also a 'place' of sorts of the present. God IS omnipresent--yet it is also true that He is NOT present in the hearts and souls of those who have freely chosen to reject His presence and to turn away from Him. God will not impose His presence in the human heart; He is interested in a relationship of love with humanity, not in human servitude due to overthrow and dictatorship. In that sense, then, heaven and hell are not simply future locales but are also present states of being here on earth--heaven is where spiritual union with God is; hell is wherever rebellion from Him is.

But to further add to the muddle...God is always, inescapably, with those who have chosen to become His child. Yet even after we become His child, we can freely choose to rebel from His will...and so experience personal hells as a result, until we return to the spiritual unity of following Him. I know this from personal experience, and David knew this, too, and expressed it in one of his Psalms, saying 'even when I descend into hell, you are there with me.' Doesn't say God necessarily led him there; just that David 'made his bed there' on occasion. Here's a portion of the Psalm that describes so well that intimacy of relationship, regardless:

Psalm 139
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.

2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.

3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.

4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.

5 You hem me in—behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.


11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,"

12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
 
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Sean D. Schaffer

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Hi Pat,


First, let me apologize for not having been responding to these threads, especially after having told you I was so eager to see the next one when you were late posting your Theme of the Week thread a few weeks ago. That was my bad.

Second, on the omnipresence of G-d (if you want to know why I'm spelling it that way now, ask me via PM, please) the first Scripture that comes to my mind also is the one already mentioned on this thread. Off the top of my head, I personally can't think of any others simply because I'm not in the thinking mode. :Shrug: But where my heart is concerned, all I can say is I'm glad He's everywhere.

And now, a Scripture does come to my mind :rolleyes: . It's from Psalm 23, and reads, "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me." I think that Scripture is just wonderfully fitting for a theme such as G-d's omnipresence. To know that even in the worst of times, my Savior is there with me, and thus I don't have to be afraid, is really an encouragement to me. So often in my life I'm beset by things that seem insurmountible, and yet here G-d is, in the midst of it all, like the old poem Footprints in the Sand says, carrying me through the worst that the world can throw at me. If it were not for His omnipresence, I don't think I would have such intense love for Him or anywhere near the faith I can place in His abilities, as I do right now.
 

Pat~

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Sean, great to see you! And thanks for adding Psalm 23 to the theme thread--it not only addresses His omnipresence, but the guidance and comfort He provides with that.
 
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