Analyse this!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,030
Location
We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
Website
francisknightbooks.co.uk
OK, so as part of one of my New Year's Resolutions I want to improve my critting skills. And taking inspiration from Uncle Jim's 'First Page, would you read on' challenge, and our own 'Hook me in 200 words or less' thread I though we could analyse the first 200 words of published works, to see whether they worked and if not why not. And of course if so, why so.

So to start here is the first 200 odd words of a fave novella I recently re-read:

The place stank. A queer mingled stench that only the ice-buried cabins of an antarctic camp know, compounded of reeking human sweat, and the heavy fish-oil stench of melted seal blubber. An overtone of liniment combated the musty smell of sweat-and-snow-drenched furs. The acrid odour of burnt cooking fat , and the animal, not-unpleasant smell of dogs, diluted by time, hung in the air.

Lingering odours of machine oil contrasted sharply with the taint of harness dressing and leather. Yet somehow, through all that reek of human beings and the associates -- dogs, machines and cooking -- came another taint. It was a queer, neck-ruffling thing, a faintest suggestion of an odour alien among the smells of industry and life. And it was a life smell. But it came from the thing that lay bound with cord and tarpaulin on the table, dripping slowly, methodically onto the heavy planks, dark and gaunt under the unshielded glare of the electric light.

Now, for me, this works. It doesn't start with a BANG sentence, it's more subtle than that. It begins with a plain tell, just to start you off, then builds on that until you can almost taste the air. It tells you very much without stating it baldly. By the time the next sentence comes around ( which introduces the first characters) you know not only know exactly where you are and have some idea of what the place looks ( and obviously smells) like, you have the first hint of something not quite right. Something creepy.

In short - right from the off you know the atmosphere and tone of the story.


So: does this work for you? Why? If not, why not?

And when we've ripped this to pieces lol, then someone can post another and we'll shred that.
 
Last edited:

dolores haze

international guttersnipe
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
4,963
Reaction score
3,956
Location
far from the madding crowd
*holding nose*

Yes, that certainly was a beautifully pungent description. I was quite caught up. I was definitely hooked. The word "neck-ruffling" tripped me up. What the heck is that supposed to mean? How does a neck ruffle? I spent a few moments trying to figure it out, but nothing came to me.
 

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
I think IRU has the neck-ruffling defined.

This one worked for me, but barely. I'm suspicious that if the author leads off with 200 words of description, I've somehow picked up a romance. Only the subject matter of the description convinced me otherwise. :D

The creeping abnormality of the second paragraph saved it for me. The queer, neck-ruffling odour that came from the thing bound in the tarp... that got my interest back.
 

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,030
Location
We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
Website
francisknightbooks.co.uk
This one worked for me, but barely. I'm suspicious that if the author leads off with 200 words of description, I've somehow picked up a romance.

Really? Interesting. I'd say it was more a convention of fantasy, but there you are.

And definitely NOT a romance. Unless you are very kinky. :D

And yes, it was teh second para that hooked me. But AFAIC the second one wouldn't have worked as well without the first. If you see what I mean. You start with normal reality - then introduce an element of weirdness.
 

dolores haze

international guttersnipe
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
4,963
Reaction score
3,956
Location
far from the madding crowd
OK, the hackles make sense, though it still doesn't quite work for me.

There are only about a hundred words of description, Don. Why has setting the scene become so unpopular? I like to know where I am. The description tells me. If the writer went straight to the stinky, living thing would it have still seemed creepy and abnormal without the preceding description of setting?
 

ELMontague

I wasn't hooked, but I wasn't run off either. I'd give it a few more paragraphs.
 

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
2,462
Reaction score
420
Location
The Great Wide Open
So...here's the joke. Here's what I wrote before I recognized the story:

My first thought as I read was "less of it, mate."
I wasn't a fan of the word choices either..."taint," "overtone of liniment," etc. They felt deliberately archaic (unless this was written in the back in the '30s or thereabouts).


And now, of course, a minute later, I recognize one of the great classics of the pulp era, remade as a movie two or three times and referenced over and over since then.

All I can say is that I've always thought that the author was a terrific idea man, but not as good at style.
 

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
I thought, "This is a Lovecraft-style story, I have no interest in those". As a book consumer I always read the back cover blurb first, so if I knew from that that it was not a Lovecraft story, I'd interpret it differently London-esque historical, still not something I'd be interested in reading. At the risk of making a sweeping generalization, two paragraphs about stink, a gritty lifestyle, and a mysterious monster, all presented in a serious rather than comical way, make it sound like there is a very masculine story ahead - the exact opposite of a romance, lol. And I'm a reader who would much rather have a romance.
 

Polenth

Mushroom
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
5,018
Reaction score
736
Location
England
Website
www.polenthblake.com
The opening didn't hook me, but it didn't stop me reading either. As long as it doesn't do anything to stop me reading, I'd keep reading for a bit. Whether I carry on depends on what happens next.

This is true of quite a few books I've read. Some do catch my interest from the start, but many sneak up on me after a chapter or two. My favourite books don't necessarily have good openings.

ETA: I found a copy to read on. So POSSIBLE SPOILERS. I wouldn't have finished this book, but not due to the scene setting opening. It was when the characters started speaking. I'm not a fan of characters giving long speeches and getting into philosophical discussions about the story themes. It makes it seem like a vehicle for the idea and themes, rather than a story.
 
Last edited:

ELMontague

Go figure. I'm reading a Lovecraft now and not really loving it. I thought I was just projecting. Glad someone else saw it.
 

Mr. Chuckletrousers

Sith happens.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
665
Reaction score
160
Location
Virginia
Go figure. I'm reading a Lovecraft now and not really loving it. I thought I was just projecting. Glad someone else saw it.
It's not a Lovecraft. It's the novella that the movie 'The Thing' was based on. I wouldn't even call it particularly Lovecraftian in style, which becomes easier to see if you continue reading at the link dclary provided.
 

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,090
Reaction score
2,165
Location
Lost Angeles
At the risk of making a sweeping generalization, two paragraphs about stink, a gritty lifestyle, and a mysterious monster, all presented in a serious rather than comical way, make it sound like there is a very masculine story ahead - the exact opposite of a romance, lol. And I'm a reader who would much rather have a romance.

Heh heh, and when I read it I thought, ooh, gross smelly stuff at an Antarctic research station, hurrah! I hope someone will be eaten/has been eaten by something! It was lacking in conflict, but to me the setting was intriguing enough to read on.
 

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,090
Reaction score
2,165
Location
Lost Angeles
Can I play? How bout this one? Old award-winning novelette that I love:

Suddenly Joe Slattermill knew for sure he'd have to get out quick or else blow his top and knock out with the shrapnel of his skull the props and patches holding up his decaying home, that was like a house of big wooden and plaster and wallpaper cards except for the huge fireplace and ovens and chimney across the kitchen from him.

Those were stone-solid enough, though. The fireplace was chin-high at least twice that long, and filled from end to end with roaring flames. Above were the square doors of the ovens in a row -- his Wife baked for part of their living. Above the ovens was the wall-long mantelpiece, too high for his Mother to reach or Mr. Guts to jump any more, set with all sorts of ancestral curios, but any of them that weren't stone or glass or china had been so dried and darkened by decades of heat that they looked like nothing but shrunken human heads and black gold balls. At one end were clustered his Wife's square gin bottles. Above the mantelpiece hung on old chromo, so high and so darkened by soot and grease that you couldn't tell whether the swirls and fat cigar shape were a whaleback steamer plowing through a hurricane or a spaceship plunging through a storm of light-driven dust motes.

Love the first sentence. I had to read on. The second para is just description of an odd house, but I'm willing to stick with it to find out if Joe blows his top! The beginning is good, but actually the story itself is much, much better, so I think the beginning could be written even more intriguing.
 

Keyan

ubiquitous
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
629
Reaction score
264
Now, for me, this works. It doesn't start with a BANG sentence, it's more subtle than that. It begins with a plain tell, just to start you off, then builds on that until you can almost taste the air. It tells you very much without stating it baldly. By the time the next sentence comes around ( which introduces the first characters) you know not only know exactly where you are and have some idea of what the place looks ( and obviously smells) like, you have the first hint of something not quite right. Something creepy.

In short - right from the off you know the atmosphere and tone of the story.


So: does this work for you? Why? If not, why not?

And when we've ripped this to pieces lol, then someone can post another and we'll shred that.

It works for me as well, partly because it's describing a place I don't know at all with an authenticity that not only makes me feel I'm there, but also because the author uses the smells to show us the lives of those who live on the ice. Sweat and furs. Liniment. Dogs. Seal-blubber used for heat/ light.

Just that would be interesting enough, and then he eases in the strange wrong smell...

Yeah.
 

Rabe

the living dead
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
615
Reaction score
79
And when we've ripped this to pieces lol, then someone can post another and we'll shred that.


Sorry, but couldn't get past the second sentence. Too convoluted and weak.

Which made me want to go off and take a nap rather then to even finish the sentence.

Rabe...
 

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,752
Reaction score
449
Location
Austria
Okay, since I have the time (for one text, so I choose the first).

Overall, I wasn't sold on the story, but neither was I driven off. The thing is: I have trouble following the descriptions - my eyes glaze over as I read them. Too many words around too little focus. It's supposed to evoke setting but - to me - it lacks a center of gravity. Especially the first paragraph.

Line-by-line:

The place stank.

A decent start. Syntax suggests that "the place" is familiar, and "stank" is information. But "the place" is insufficiently defined for new readers (unless the place is named in the title - which I happen to know is not), so it adds another point of interest. What place?

This is a standard method to start a short story. I bet everyone of us has used it at least once, and many of us have it set as a default attention grabber.

A queer mingled stench that only the ice-buried cabins of an antarctic camp know, compounded of reeking human sweat, and the heavy fish-oil stench of melted seal blubber.

The first thing we notice is that we have a rather long noun phrase. Not a sentence, not even a clause (well, we do have a clause, but it's embedded in the phrase...). The author picks up the verb "stank" and transforms it into the noun "stench" and then piles on modifiers (adjectives, participles, clauses). This tactic works on the revulsion of "stench". (Imagine: "The place smelled. An mingled odour of..."). Other words compound the evaluation of the smell: "queer mingled" (instead of "mingled") [why isn't there a comma between queer and mingled; he put them everywhere else in the same sort of context], "reeking human sweat" (instead of plain "human sweat"), etc.

But not all the modifiers enhance the smell. Some work with the beginning "the place", especially the that-clause. The first concrete hint we get is the [object]-[participle] construction "ice-buried". At that point we go: "Aha! Ice". "Antarctic camp" follows straight behind this. There's the alternative method of stretching out the tension of What Place? You add "ice" now, and give more and more hints, until the reader draws the inevitable conclusion. The text in question doesn't do this. The story suggests it might be wanting to do this, but then gives away the setting right off the bat.

And here's my first quibble with this text. The setup in sentence 1 works. The second sentence (well, phrase, really, but...) tries to follow the same line. It's all about the stench, but we get in the place sideways. But it's not exactly subtle. We get an entire clause about ice-buried cabins of antarctic camps. This is somewhat weak. It wouldn't matter much, but the "place-mystery" does make the opening more complicated, and the complication, being resolved too early, doesn't really pay off. I'm wondering why we didn't get something like this for a first:

***The cabin stank. Only the ice-buried cabins of an antarctic camp could stink like that. Odours from... mingled... blah, blah, blah....***

If you're giving away the place straight-away anyway, why not right off the bat, so we know immediately where we are? The sense of setting would be enhanced. We'd have an "aha: that's what antarctic camps smell like" experience rather than a: "where the hell are we and why does it smell like this" experience. To repeat, I'm not saying that former is more worthy than the letter; but I am saying that these first two lines are the former masquerading as the letter - making the first two lines harder to read than necessary.

There is also the side-effect - to me - of linking "ice-buried" to the smell: this makes me wonder about ventilation and how often they clean the ducts and whether there shouldn't be a smell of bacteria involved if they don't often enough, or a smell of chemicals if they do. That is: I go off on a tangent, while it's clear that the author wishes to focus on tangible, organic smells ("dogs, machines and cooking").

At that point I'm beginning to be wary of the text. Nothing big, nothing that can't be saved.

There are other things: what am I supposed to make of "fish oil stench of melting seal blubber". After quite a bit of thinking I think that "fish oil" might be involved somehow in the melting of seal blubber, but my first reaction was "seal don't smell like fish" (actually my first reaction was to misread the "of" as an "and" of sorts...).

I also think the "stench" is over-emphasised, with all the enhancers. I wouldn't miss the "reeking" before "human sweat" much. I do see that it has emphatic function, though.

An overtone of liniment combated the musty smell of sweat-and-snow-drenched furs.


A much better blend of setting-introduction and smell. The text is finding its groove.

The acrid odour of burnt cooking fat , and the animal, not-unpleasant smell of dogs, diluted by time, hung in the air.

So now I'm back to "cooking" and "fat", "fish oil" and "melting seal blubber". Are we talking about the same things here and there? Is the "seal blubber" used for cooking? For greasing stuff? Applied to boots? All of the above? Why did we have a detour via liniment and fur? Hunting? I'm unsure. Again, I'm wondering if I just don't get it (being profoundly unfamiliar with antarctic camps), or if the text simply doesn't have an easy-to-follow flow of ideas. (Add to that, that the dogs have fur, too... At that point I'm no longer in the text - I'm trying to find my bearings.)

As a side-note: for the first time, the stench-hook is deluted: "not-unpleasant smell of dogs". Unfortunately, the smell is "diluted by time" (which suggests that dog were here, but aren't now); so I'm having trouble imagining how I'm supposed to separate a faint smell from the mingled mass described as stench. Do I need a dual nose? The smell is nice in isolation, but add it to the mix... The primary effect of the line on me was that it hatched a suspicion that the narrator is fond of dogs (hence they don't stink).

Lingering odours of machine oil contrasted sharply with the taint of harness dressing and leather.

Yet another component: "machine oil". Dogs are revisited through harness dressing. What puzzles me here is that this sentence starts a new paragraph. Considering the follow-up "Yet" contrasts with the entire first paragraph, too, I think this sentence should conclude the former paragraph. (A paragraph that could be re-written, ordering the ideas with a bit more discipline; but that may well just be my preference.) Otherwise, I have nothing to say about the sentence.

Yet somehow, through all that reek of human beings and the associates -- dogs, machines and cooking -- came another taint.

This line should start off paragraph 2, I think. It summarises the first paragraph concisely and then adds another scent. Apparantly, something that doesn't fit.

The only problem I have in this one is the word "taint". A "taint" is a contaminant of some sorts; so since the smell is alien, it taints what you expect. So far so good; but it's described as "another taint". It isn't another "taint". It's more like another scent, which taints the usual mixture.

Other than that, I really like this sentence.

Side-note: Notice how the usage of "human beings" foreshadows the theme of the novella? The author could have used the simple "men".

It was a queer, neck-ruffling thing, a faintest suggestion of an odour alien among the smells of industry and life.

This is where the question of point of few becomes apparant to me. We're starting out from a cosy, living room perspective. The narrator and his readers are looking at the place and trying not to breathe too hard. But at that point, we're supposed to be used to the smell. See? That's what these sort of places smell like. Yeah, it stinks, but you'll get used to it. Aren't we feeling at home already? But wait! What's this?

It's not a "stench". It's an alien smell. It's unnerving. What is it?

But since the impression of the narrator I got in the previous paragraph was one that's as far from antarctic camps as I am (might be untrue), the shift towards familiarity doesn't quite work for me. I think the problem I'm having is that the "stinking" hook is at odds with desired effect. If you'd ask a camp inmate, they'd probably agree that it stinks, but they wouldn't usually think of it much (perhaps, when they come in from outside - if their noses aren't frozen shut...). I feel the opening hook is an injoke for outsiders - but the unfamiliarity of the alien scent nieeds an insider's nose. For me, either an overtly lecturing narrator or a PoV-character would have worked better - I suspect - than the current opening.

And it was a life smell.

Something living (or recently living) in an antarctic camp that doesn't belong there. Yay! Now we're talking!

But it came from the thing that lay bound with cord and tarpaulin on the table, dripping slowly, methodically onto the heavy planks, dark and gaunt under the unshielded glare of the electric light.

Eery image. I don't suppose it should be dripping onto the floor? Notice how we're going from generic description to a dramatic, cinematic one? (You can almost use this as camera directions - including lighting.)

I'm not sure what the "But" accomplishes, though. I think that the "But" should indicate that you wouldn't expect a "life smell" from the thing under the tarpaulin. It doesn't have that effect for me.

In summary, I think it's the rambling tone that keeps throwing me off. The imagery does work for me, but the flow of ideas is too erratic. I can't tell whether we're getting too much or too little information, at times. As I'm a slow, methodical reader (almost everyone around me reads quicklier than I do), this sort of erratic association game throws me off. If you're reading this in a rush, I suppose, it should work well enough.
 

euclid

Where did I put me specs?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
1,964
Reaction score
229
Location
Paradise
Website
www.jjtoner.com
I loved the first post (by IdiotsRUs), but I couldn't find out what the story was. I looked in the link to Google books and found a list of stories, but which one was it?

I hope you're going to tell us, IdiotsRUs. I'm always looking for great classical SF stories.

The second one I hated. I could make no sense of the first paragraph (all one sentence) even though I read it twice. The second paragraph didn't help at all. It was like peering into a fog and seeing very little. Sorry.
 

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,030
Location
We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
Website
francisknightbooks.co.uk
It was 'Who Goes There' by John W Campbell Jr, Euclid. The basis for the Thing as was mentioned upthread

Dawnstorm, that was a very detailed analysis, thank you. I think if I analysed everything I read like that, I'd never enjoy reading anything ever again...:D

If anything, this has at least shown that enjoyment of style is a completely personal thing.

And for our next excerpt, from Kitty ( thanks for playing!)

Suddenly Joe Slattermill knew for sure he'd have to get out quick or else blow his top and knock out with the shrapnel of his skull the props and patches holding up his decaying home, that was like a house of big wooden and plaster and wallpaper cards except for the huge fireplace and ovens and chimney across the kitchen from him.

Sorry, I got lost half way through that sentence and had to start again. Now I like long sentences, but starting with a 62 word one? Even that would be okay, maybe, if I had made sense of it first time round. But the awkward phrasing ( knock out with the shrapnel of his skull the props.. Shouldn't that be knock out the props etc with the shrapnel of his skull? It would read better that way, and make sense too) which makes me have to reread it to get the meaning is a killer for me. If it starts like this....
 

euclid

Where did I put me specs?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
1,964
Reaction score
229
Location
Paradise
Website
www.jjtoner.com
I think the way the author uses smells to describe the scene is brilliant. That's all the analysis I need. It's just brilliant!
 

Rabe

the living dead
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
615
Reaction score
79
Love the first sentence. I had to read on. The second para is just description of an odd house, but I'm willing to stick with it to find out if Joe blows his top! The beginning is good, but actually the story itself is much, much better, so I think the beginning could be written even more intriguing.

Okay, in this instance I didn't even finish reading the first novella of a sentence.

It really becomes indicative to me of how the rest of the story is going to go. I love definitive styles, but if I'm going to have to jump into a car and chase after a sentence that just keeps running, what's the point of reading further? I'll move on to something else.

Like I've done so far.

A lot of time I find this to be the problem with genre fiction. People fall in love with a really bad story because of a perceived "style". Look at Lovecraft, his stuff stinks to high heaven, but raving nerdboys love it because it makes them feel 'smart' and 'better than others' because they know how to look up the words in a dictionary.

But when you take all that away, you just have a really bad story. Classic literature about the same thing. At the core, the story just really stinks but it's wrapped in a 'style' so people go off raving about it. So we promote crap and rave about it when it is, really, crap.

Rabe...
 

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,030
Location
We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
Website
francisknightbooks.co.uk
A lot of time I find this to be the problem with genre fiction. People fall in love with a really bad story because of a perceived "style".
Isn't that literary fiction?

Thing is we are only evaluating the first couple of hundred words - so we aren't analysing the plot, but the ability of a writer to draw us into his world. Or not.

Style obviously plays a part in this ( or every story would be 'John did this. Then he did that. Then the cat died), and it's completely personal what you like and don't like.

Now if you don't like these two that's fine. No one says you have to. But it's a bit much saying having style is a problem in genre writing, or insinuating all genre writing is style prettying up a crap story. Especially in a genre writing forum.

Maybe you would care to post something you DO like for us to analyse?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.