Question on Middle Grade Word Count

Jack_Roberts · Dec 15, 2008

My novel features a 10 yr old girl and 12 yr old boy as main characters. They grow to ages 12 and 14 later in the book. According to the Bullies Chart, my novel fits into the Middle Grade category. I originally thought it was YA because I was under the impression Harry Potter was YA. I was shooting for a similar age audience; 11 + .
I’ve learned that HP is in fact Middle Grade.

The Bullies Chart lists that the word count for Middle Grade is 10,000 to 40,000. My novel is 87,000. I originally thought this was fine (because of the general size for YA novels) but since my main characters are too young for YA, I guess it has to be MG.

So this means I have to gut 40,000 words and a lot of story. Is this true? Is there no choice? Since my characters are around age 12, it has to be MG and the law is that it has to be 40,000 tops?

What are people’s thoughts?

alleycat · Dec 15, 2008

Some publishers have an in-house category of books that fit between middle grade and YA (for the 11 to 14 age group). It sounds like your book fit would well into that category. I've heard it called different things by different people.

It is certainly too long for a MG in my opinion (although I don't claim to be an expert).

You'd have to do more research on this, but it would certainly be easier than trying to cut 40,000 words from your story.

Jack_Roberts · Dec 15, 2008

Hmm, maybe a line in the query stateing the age group?

Looking at the Bullies chart, it could apply for YA, too. But that's a max of 60,000 words.

SheilaJG · Dec 15, 2008

To put your mind at ease, you can go on Amazon and do a Text Stat check on books similar to yours and find the word count. HP number one was 77K words, The Lightening Thief - 86K, Inkheart - 145K, The Thief - 68K. The Golden Compass - 117K. Bartimaeus book 1 - 123K. Gideon The Cutpurse - 103K. All Middle Grade books.

I don't get where you think it's the law that MG has to be under 40K.

Jack_Roberts · Dec 15, 2008

SheilaSeeGee, you're a life saver! If they can be that big, why can't I sit at 87-88k?

Maybe I shouldn't be concerned.

Jack_Roberts · Dec 15, 2008

SheilaSeeGee said:
To put your mind at ease, you can go on Amazon and do a Text Stat check on books similar to yours and find the word count. HP number one was 77K words, The Lightening Thief - 86K, Inkheart - 145K, The Thief - 68K. The Golden Compass - 117K. Bartimaeus book 1 - 123K. Gideon The Cutpurse - 103K. All Middle Grade books.

I don't get where you think it's the law that MG has to be under 40K.

How do you do a "Text Stat check" on Amazon?

alleycat · Dec 15, 2008

Jack_Roberts said:
How do you do a "Text Stat check" on Amazon?

It's not available on all books, but it's down past the basic book publishing info.

SheilaJG · Dec 15, 2008

Alleycat is right, you can't find it for every book. As you scroll down past "Product Details" there's a section called "Inside This Book", and then a subsection called "New!" and "Text Stats" should be there. You can try it with one of the books I mentioned, except Harry Potter.

Jack_Roberts · Dec 15, 2008

Thanks guys. I tried it with 'The Lightening Thief"
Never heard of the book but it did have the stats. This is good. I'll make sure it's tight enough for 85-87 but I'll stop there.

Whew! You guys are lifesavers!

alleycat · Dec 15, 2008

One thing, be just a little suspicious of the word count given on Amazon for any single book. I was doing some research one time and looked at the word count on Amazon, then did my own estimate since I had the book in question. The Amazon stats had to be way off. It's a useful tool; just don't let it be your only one.

Jack_Roberts · Dec 15, 2008

alleycat said:
One thing, be just a little suspicious of the word count given on Amazon for any single book. I was doing some research one time and looked at the word count on Amazon, then did my own estimate since I had the book in question. The Amazon stats had to be way off. It's a useful tool; just don't let it be your only one.

Hmm. Good idea.

I have both Golden Compass and HP 1. How do I do my own estimate?

alleycat · Dec 15, 2008

Jack_Roberts said:
Hmm. Good idea.

I have both Golden Compass and HP 1. How do I do my own estimate?

My way is not a scientific one, but I think I can make an fairly accurate ROUGH estimate.

I count the words in several lines on different pages and comes with a thumb-nail average (say, 10 words a line). Then count the number of lines on a typical page (say, 40). Then multiple by the number of pages (say, 100). In my example that would be 40,000 words, but I know there's many pages that are not full pages, so I do a mentally calculation just by looking at the book (some use a lot of white space at the beginning of chapters, or a lot of semi-black pages, some don't) and reduce the count somewhat. Say in this case to 38,000 words. Again, it's just a rough estimate, but you might be surprised how close you can come to the listed count this way.

Danthia · Dec 15, 2008

It's more about pacing that hard word counts these days. If your story is a page turner at 87K you're probably fine. If it's not, then it's too long. That's true no matter what market you are. When word count is an issue, I always suggest putting it at the bottom, so they get hooked first by your story. If your query shows tight writing and good plotting, then they'll be more willing to look at a longer MS if it sounds interesting. But if your query is wordy and repeats itself, then the 87K will hurt you, as they'll expect the novel to have the same problems as the query.

Toothpaste · Dec 15, 2008

You already have your answer, but you are using my magic number so I had to chime in. For some reason every book I write winds up at 87 000. No idea why. And my first two are MG. So there you go! Totally doable. But as Danthia said, make sure every word counts and that you've got good pacing.

As to your concern over MG vs YA, I think yours is definitely upper MG. The first three Harry Potters are squarely in that genre, with some cross over appeal happening in the fourth (personally I think up until the 6th, they remain still very MG in tone, despite the age of the characters). At any rate, considering that publishers are being inundated with YA's and that agents are actively requesting MGs now . . . probably a smart move to keep it in that category.

trickywoo · Dec 15, 2008

I went through this a little while ago.

I would try and cut as much excess as you can which will probably tighten up your novel and then pitch it as middle grade. Some MG novels are longer, but they're usually fantasy.

Your agent will let you know if it is better to see it as YA or MG, but I think with the age of your characters it's probably MG.

Jack_Roberts · Dec 15, 2008

Thanks guys!
Toothpaste, you are living evidence that it can work!
Trickywoo, it's a fantacy novel about children vampires. I began it in '04 way before the current craze. It's not HP or Twilight, but I think both readership will like it.

I've taken almost a year break to scrub it clean of all the problems. I'm just wrapping up.

Thanks so much guys!

Ziljon · Dec 15, 2008

Here's a great link Renaissance Learning. You just type in the book title and get info like this:

The Mysterious Benedict Society

Quiz No. 113801

Author: Stewart, Trenton Lee
Language: English
Interest Level: Middle Grades Type: Fiction
Book Level: 5.6 Recorded Voice Available: No
AR Pts: 18.0 Word Count: 118460
Summary: After passing a series of mind-bending tests, four children are selected for a secret mission that requires them to go undercover at the Learning Institute for the Very Enlightened, where their mission is to stop the plan of the evil Ledroptha Curtain.
Publisher ISBN Year Published Pages
Little, Brown & Co. 978-0-316-05777-6 2007 485
Little, Brown & Co. 978-0-316-00395-7 2008 485
Little, Brown & Co. 0-316-05777-0 2007 485

and this (Yo, Toothpaste!):

Alex and the Ironic Gentleman

Quiz No. 121917

Author: Kress, Adrienne Language: English
Interest Level: Middle Grades Type: Fiction
Book Level: 5.8 Recorded Voice Available: No
AR Pts: 12.0 Word Count: 78112
Summary: Ten-and-a-half-year-old Alex Morningside sets out to rescue her fun, exciting new teacher, Mr. Underwood, when he is abducted by pirates.
Publisher ISBN Year Published Pages
Weinstein Books 978-1-60286-005-6 2007 308
Weinstein Books 978-1-60286-025-4 2008 308

Toothpaste · Dec 15, 2008

Ooh cool! But I just want to qualify the word count thing. I sold the book at 87 000 words, but then edited it down. So my point is you can sell a work that long. My second book is being published though at close to that word count.

Ziljon - what does the "quiz number" thing mean?

Jack_Roberts · Dec 15, 2008

Thanks so much. I just want to get her out there without losing something in the process.

Question on Middle Grade Word Count

Jack_Roberts

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alleycat

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SheilaJG

Jack_Roberts

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Jack_Roberts

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alleycat

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SheilaJG

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alleycat

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alleycat

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trickywoo

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Ziljon

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Toothpaste

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