Outline or No? Or...

RunawayScribe · Dec 8, 2008

Do you outline your novels prior to/while writing them?

I do, but not rigidly. I like the freedom to change character relationships and come up with scenes as I go. Usually, I just come up with a general, overarching plot, so I know how the story begins, the gist of how it develops, the main conflict, and the basic solution. It gives me room to play around and be surprised while still giving me a direction in which to write.

I know some people loathe outlines, and I know some people write them point by point. So what's your approach, and why do you like it?

Don · Dec 8, 2008

In my WIP I've got 22 chapter headings that describe the overall flow of the plot. I've got scenes defined a few chapters ahead of where I'm currently writing, and as I understand more of the story I add scenes to future chapters. It seems to work for me. YMMV.

Tirjasdyn · Dec 8, 2008

Yawn...

I outline. I love it. Keeps me honest. Still change it if I need to.

Scene by Scene.

tehuti88 · Dec 8, 2008

I don't outline because I want to be as surprised as the reader. My stories will be stale if I know most of the stuff that's going to happen before it happens. I do, however, mull over longer storylines for quite a while before writing them, so I know where I'm going, if not exactly how I'm getting there. A kind of vague mental outline, if you will.

When I get toward the ending of a long story I might stop to jot down the events that I still want to happen, and put those in order and fill in any gaps between them, so I don't forget anything important. That's as close as I come to outlining, and I still keep it pretty general.

I outlined a novel once, and it took much quicker to write, but it felt very stale. Still, whenever I get back into novel writing I might outline a bit if only because novels must fall under a certain word length, and be more structured, whereas the serials and shorter stories I'm currently writing can go on as long as I wish.

Though now that I think about it, it doesn't really matter how long my "novels" are since they're not getting published. Hm. Well, novel writing, to me, just feels different and more structured than serial writing, so that might be why I'd outline them. I won't know until I reach that point. *shrug*

Dave.C.Robinson · Dec 8, 2008

Some do, some don't.

Different people also mean different things by the word 'outline' too. Do what works for you, but there are times when an outline can be very helpful when you're trying to sell something on spec.

Try writing different pieces different ways and see what happens.

Charlie Horse · Dec 8, 2008

The search function is your friend. Really.

Oh, and no, I don't.

Danthia · Dec 8, 2008

I like to have a basic framework so I know my big set pieces and ending, but then I let the story grow organically from there. I like to say I always know where I'm going, but never how I'll get there.

I usually have a paragraph for each chapter that's roughly a synopsis, just broken up into bits.

I used to be a detailed outliner, but I found it stiffled the creative juices and forced me to fit what I had outlined into a rigid structure even if it no longer worked.

scarletpeaches · Dec 8, 2008

Oh god.

*ahem*

As Charlie Horse has said, the search function is your friend.

Maybe a mod will nudge me for saying this. But I really, really am trying to keep it friendly.

This subject arises often on AW. I mean weekly it seems of late and sometimes the discussions get rather heated.

So forgive us if regular members get a tad antsy, 'cause we know what's a-comin'...

And no. I don't.

RunawayScribe · Dec 8, 2008

Gosh, start a simple thread...people fight about this topic? Seriously?

Either way, I was curious why those of you who prefer not to outline feel that way.

scarletpeaches · Dec 8, 2008

Oh, it's not so much that outlining/not outlining is a volatile subject in and of itself. It's just that it's a repetitive subject, and because it's so, folks think "Oh, this again. Remember when so-and-so said this, and such-and-such said that..."

I don't outline because it's a waste of time. I'd rather write the book than write about writing it.

RunawayScribe · Dec 8, 2008

Ah, gotcha. Thanks.

I don't find it to be a waste of time if it helps me get my ideas in order, which it often does. What I do think is odd is how some aspiring writers churn out incredibly detailed outlines and never get past chapter three because of it. If it leads to that, imo it's excessive.

scarletpeaches · Dec 8, 2008

Yes, some enjoy worldbuilding more than the actual writing itself, which makes me wonder if they don't want to actually be a writer and would prefer to simply have written.

blacbird · Dec 8, 2008

scarletpeaches said:
Yes, some enjoy worldbuilding more than the actual writing itself, which makes me wonder if they don't want to actually be a writer and would prefer to simply have written.

Perfectly expressed. I've had to critique a couple of manuscripts by people infatuated with worldbuilding and not having a clue how to tell a story, and trust me, it's an agony. I quit a local writers' group three or four years ago, at least in part with having to deal with this guy, who also liked to argue against every suggestion anybody made.

caw

Dave.C.Robinson · Dec 8, 2008

It all depends on what the individual needs. I think too much worldbuilding before writing is a problem, but sometimes you need to worldbuild so you know the rules. It's just like outlining - sometimes it's difficult when a novel spans huge amounts of time and space to keep all the continuity straight without some form of records- which may require including what you haven't got to writing yet.

blacbird · Dec 8, 2008

The late Leonard Bishop, in his excellent book Dare to Be a Great Writer, said: "The best time to outline is after the first draft."

caw

Charlie Horse · Dec 8, 2008

I prefer to let my stories surprise me. That way there's a better chance they'll surprise my readers as well. If I thought too much about what I was writing, I'm sure I would probably just churn out rehashed cliched crap.

Much like this post.

Varthikes · Dec 8, 2008

I outline now. I used to not, and I began each session trying to remember where I was going with the story.

But now, I do so I know where I plot is going. I still leave room for the characters to have a bit of freedom, though.

AyJay · Dec 8, 2008

I hate to outline, but I really have to. Maybe I've lost too many brain cells, but it's the only way for me to keep track of the storyline and subplots. I've never started out with an outline. For me, that spoils the fun of letting my brain go free for awhile, just churning out whatever is going on up there. Then, I hack away the gristle and fat, start forming an outline, and spend many months in revision misery.

Jerry B. Flory · Dec 8, 2008

Outline in your head and write in your heart. That way if your characters disagree with your outline you haven't wasted any paper or hard disk space.

TMA-1 · Dec 8, 2008

I'm writing one right now, and I outlined it on a pretty low level. It still gives me the freedom I want, the difference is that I used up some of that freedom beforehand...

Claudia Gray · Dec 9, 2008

I outline and find it tremendously helpful. Some people don't. The only right way is what works for you. I suggest giving it a try if you feel drawn toward doing so -- not only is it good to try out any writing method that especially intrigues you, but also, if/when you get published and are trying to sell future books or books in a series, the ability to create an outline in advance will make your editor very happy and your life a lot simpler. But if you can't, no worries -- people manage all the time.

agentelle · Dec 9, 2008

I usually outline, but only a little bit. If I get ideas for the plot, I jot them down. I once tried to fully outline a book I was working on, but it went very badly wrong as things will no doubt happen in your story that you didn't think would. And then it gets messy.

So for me, an outline helps...but the basics only.

Hillgate · Dec 9, 2008

As a child, I always found colouring in more fun than outlining, but without the outline there wasn't much to colour in.

Tirjasdyn · Dec 9, 2008

It does come up weekly lately.

But because it hasn't been said yet in this thread:

It always surprises me when authors say they don't outline becuase they like to see what happens or that they can't be creative with an outline. This is fundamental misunderstanding of the outline. No one made up a rule that you had to stick to it...except perhaps high school English teachers but they aren't watching you when you write a novel.

So to expand on my earlier answer as the residential outline maven (self-titled).

I outline. I create characters, make a rough plot sketch, list locations in a time line, then write out a short blurb for each scene in the book. Then I start writing.

This usually goes happily for three or four chapters, then I realize it would be better if I kill someone off, or that motivation has changed, or that the whole friggin town wants to be included in the country's non-future (who'd a thunk that?). So I write it and then adjust my outline so that I can remember where I was and where I now have to go. If I realize I'll have to change something else later because the crazy MC decided that killing off her teacher was the best thing she could do considering the circumstances, I make a note in that scenes notes so I can change it.

Outlines aren't rigid things that never change. But some folks prefer to work out problems with plot and storyline while they're writing the first draft and others like to do it later in second or third draft.

scarletpeaches · Dec 9, 2008

If outlines aren't set in stone and can be changed at the author's whim, I fail to see the point of them. I'd rather have a first draft that can be written according to my whim.

Outline or No? Or...

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