Help with premise/controlling idea (please)

[jazzy1_one]

Hi everyone, just joined the site yesterday and posted a newbie question which probably should have been asked here.

Just need a little assistance with separating the premise and controlling idea. According to Robert McKee, the premise of a movie (from the perspective of a screenwriter) should be a question (the what if...).

Searching on the net, I've found that most the premises on sites are controlling ideas (once again, according to the book). For Die Hard, I've found that the premise is: "Courage in the face of adversity leads to growth."

Now this sounds more like a controlling idea. How would you phrase the premise by employing the 'what if' rule.

Also, the controlling idea of Groundhog Day is: "Being forced to confront and overcome our faults can lead to real happiness."

What would you guys say the premise would be (again, employing the what if rule).


It's probably a silly question, but hey, you have to learn sometime I guess.
:o

Thanks,
Jazz

P.S. Great site, loads and loads to learn - so little time :)

[IWrite]

Hey Jazz

This is one of those areas where different writing "experts" use different terms to describe the same thing which I think in part is what is causing your confusion.

The controlling idea for McKee is the THEME. The underlying idea that is being explored in the story. (man vs. man, man vs. nature, love conquers all, etc.) Think back to your high school english lit courses - theme was always a big part of what you focused on when you analyzed the stories.

If you look at your two examples you will see that those are both themes - they are not what either story is about - but it was each story explores.

The premise on the other hand, normally refers to plot - what the story is about on a more surface level. So the premise of Ground Hog day is that a self-centered weatherman has to live the same day over and over again until he gets it right. The theme as you pointed out is how confronting and overcoming your faults can lead to happiness. The story of Ground Hog day explores that theme.

The theme is never stated and is often tied to the main character's flaw. You may not even realize what your theme is until you're well into the first draft of your script - so in many cases you need to weave in the exploration of your theme during the rewrite process. Some people start with theme and create a plot that allows them to explore the theme. But it's very important to understand the diffference between theme and premise and how they will in the end be intertwined into a whole piece.

You happened upon a site in your googling - where that particular guy used the word premise when he spoke about theme. If you have a good grasp of the concepts now - you won't be confused again when you come upon some other expert who uses a different term.

Hope this clarifies it for you.

[jazzy1_one]

Hey IWrite,

Thanks for the clarification. I was getting more and more confused with every site that was trying to describe the premise. :Headbang:

I think I've finally grasped what McKee is trying to say. The premise is basically a summary of the plot, which should grab the reader's attention - sort of like the hook of the film. And like you said, the controlling idea is the underlying theme, which should sort of act as the spine of the story, holding everything together. Eureka!!!

Muchos gracias! Load off my mind. Think i'll have a quick coffee break and back to writing :Coffee: Thanks again!!

[StephieM]

The themes you came upon on the website are more like hidden lessons in the plot that can be applied to life. Every good story has a reasoning behind it, a lesson to be learned. In fact in a checklist I got from a website one of the important things to ask yourself is..

"What is your story trying to say, and is it worth saying?"

Although this is a main factor you should think about when writing your script, it is not the plot. The plot is what your story is about-character and action.

Ask yourself this..

Who is your main character?
What is it she/he wants or needs?
What does he/she do to get it?
Who stands in his/her way?

This is your theme.

Steph :Sun:

[jazzy1_one]

Ask yourself this..

Who is your main character?
What is it she/he wants or needs?
What does he/she do to get it?
Who stands in his/her way?

This is your theme.



Nice way of deriving theme - thanks Steph.

[IWrite]

Ask yourself this..

Who is your main character?
What is it she/he wants or needs?
What does he/she do to get it?
Who stands in his/her way?

This is your theme.

Steph :Sun:

Actually Steph - I think this way of looking at theme is somewhat confusing. Because the basics of character, goal, and obstacle - more often than not are how one defines the premise of the story. The theme is actually what lies beneath. The universal idea at the core.

A young girl (Main Character)
Who wants to go home (desire)
Must seek out the wizard to get home (what she must do to get home)
but a wicked witch is after the girl, determined to get her hands on the only thing keeping the girl safe on her journey (what stands in her way)

This is the basic premise, story of the Wizard of Oz.

The theme has to do with not chasing rainbows to find your heart's desire - those you love ARE your heart's desire, yada, yada, yada.

You would not necessarilly get to that theme by looking at the goal, obstacle etc. You have to look beneath the goal, obstacle etc.

More often than not - the theme is related to the main character's need or flaw. Once the need is fulfilled - the theme is clear. Or in the case of tragedy - the protag resists the change required to fulfill the need - and the theme makes a negative statement - i.e. the dangers of not doing something as opposed to the rewards of doing something. It's often a darker view of humanity and human nature.

Films that explore what makes a man often have protagonists who need to tap into their courage and confront their fears. Because getting past your fears, doing things you'd prefer not to do and taking responsiblity for your life are part of being an adult

Films that explore values often have protags who value things over people. This can be related to the goal - but again it's what lies beneath the surface. There are a lot of reasons someone may be desperate for a promotion and walk over everyone else to get it. Greed, self-esteem, want a larger office, etc. Each of those reasons is grounded in a different human need. And each of those needs - could lead to exploration of a different theme.