Stupid Poetry Question

Beach Bunny

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I have a stupid question related to poetry. Hopefully, I can word it correctly.

I don't consider myself a poet and it has been many years since I have either studied it or written anything (and it was crap.) But, I have been toying with an idea. To write historical stories in verse, kind of, sort of like Homer's The Iliad and The Odyssey, but a lot shorter. And, with modern language, rhyming, and a memorable rhythm. What rhythm and rhyme scheme would work to make it memorable or easy to remember?
 
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William Haskins

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read a few and judge for yourself.

google "epic poems", find you a good 20 or so written in modern english, and see which ones grab you.
 

Beach Bunny

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Thanks, Haskins. I have been looking through my old text books and nothing is jumping out at me. Do you have any suggestions? :)
 

William Haskins

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yes. what i suggested above.

trust me, it's about the journey as much as the destination.

you'll thank me later.
 

Beach Bunny

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Sigh, I do know my strengths and weaknesses. And figuring it out on my own is not something that I do well when it comes to language arts. But, thank you. I did google and found several articles which discuss the characteristics of epic poetry. They will be very helpful to me, if I decide to try this. :)
 

Norman D Gutter

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BB:

I'm not sure how long is long to you.

Blank verse, which is unrhymed iambic pentameter (or could also be other unrhymed meters, I suppose), is frequently used for long English language poems. The need to maintain rhyme in English, which is a rhyme-poor language, makes rhyming longer poems difficult. Of course, blank verse has its own difficulties. The absence of rhyme increases the importance of other poetic devices. Most blank verse winds up sounding an awful lot like prose. I wrote a long-ish poem (490 lines) in rhyming ballad meter. Ballad meter is alternating lines of 4 and 3 stresses (think "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" or the poems of Robert Service), though lots of variations are possible, including the degree to which you rhyme.

Robert Frost wrote a number of poems in blank verse (iambic pentameter in his case), in the 200-400 line range, maybe longer. He is, IMHO, probably the best of the relatively modern poets in this technique. Such poems as "The Death of the Hired Hand" and "The Witch of Coos" are examples. These, however, may not be as long as you are thinking of.

Another thing I've done in a long book is to not write a single poem, but to break the story up in several poems, varying lengths, forms, style, voice, etc. This gives the poet a lot of flexibility, and I think keeps the reader's interest more. My book has 38 poems in a variety of forms: haiku, cinquains, short rhymes, rictameters, sonnets, the aforementioned ballad, villanelles, blank verse of 4- and 5-beat lines, and a 280 line poem in mixed meter (blank, sonnet, terza rima, and free-form). The whole book is about an hour read. If you'd like to have a look at how I handled this and if it would work for you, PM me. I'd probably want a simple assessment of the marketability and quality from a non-poet in return.

Otherwise, I'm sure William's suggestion could give you a number of good examples. The problem with recent stuff is copyright. Much of it is not available.

Best Regards,
NDG
 

Beach Bunny

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BB:

I'm not sure how long is long to you.

Blank verse, which is unrhymed iambic pentameter (or could also be other unrhymed meters, I suppose), is frequently used for long English language poems. The need to maintain rhyme in English, which is a rhyme-poor language, makes rhyming longer poems difficult. Of course, blank verse has its own difficulties. The absence of rhyme increases the importance of other poetic devices. Most blank verse winds up sounding an awful lot like prose. I wrote a long-ish poem (490 lines) in rhyming ballad meter. Ballad meter is alternating lines of 4 and 3 stresses (think "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" or the poems of Robert Service), though lots of variations are possible, including the degree to which you rhyme.

Robert Frost wrote a number of poems in blank verse (iambic pentameter in his case), in the 200-400 line range, maybe longer. He is, IMHO, probably the best of the relatively modern poets in this technique. Such poems as "The Death of the Hired Hand" and "The Witch of Coos" are examples. These, however, may not be as long as you are thinking of.

Another thing I've done in a long book is to not write a single poem, but to break the story up in several poems, varying lengths, forms, style, voice, etc. This gives the poet a lot of flexibility, and I think keeps the reader's interest more. My book has 38 poems in a variety of forms: haiku, cinquains, short rhymes, rictameters, sonnets, the aforementioned ballad, villanelles, blank verse of 4- and 5-beat lines, and a 280 line poem in mixed meter (blank, sonnet, terza rima, and free-form). The whole book is about an hour read. If you'd like to have a look at how I handled this and if it would work for you, PM me. I'd probably want a simple assessment of the marketability and quality from a non-poet in return.

Otherwise, I'm sure William's suggestion could give you a number of good examples. The problem with recent stuff is copyright. Much of it is not available.

Best Regards,
NDG
Thanks. This was helpful.

Actually, I wasn't intending to write it for publication, but to recite in a class I am thinking of teaching. The idea is still floating around in my brain and not quite fully formed. Basically, before we had books, stories and history were passed down orally. Lectures are boring, but poetry is not. You'll forget a lecture a lot faster than a poem that catches your attention. eh. I'm probably not making sense.

You're right about the length. I will need to do it in sections and keep it relatively short.

I checked out both Frost and Coleridge in my old text books. Rime of the Ancient Mariner is more like what I had in mind. :)

Thank you.
 

Norman D Gutter

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Yes, poetry can be more memorable than lectures. But I'm not sure poetry is always suitable for didactic purposes. I think that would be a very difficult poem to write. Poetry is more for entertainment than for elucidation. IMHO.
 

Beach Bunny

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Yes, both are true. The situation I am going to try this in is not a traditional university, college or school. I do medieval reenactment, so they would be performed during feast or in a bardic circle or in a classroom. And yes, I may give up on the idea as being too difficult after I roll around with it for awhile.
 

Beach Bunny

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I am reviving this because I realized that I didn't frame my question correctly. And since attention I was not looking for has now been brought to this thread, I decided to try to clarify it. :)

I have a stupid question related to poetry. Hopefully, I can word it correctly.

I don't consider myself a poet and it has been many years since I have either studied it or written anything (and it was crap.) But, I have been toying with an idea. To write historical stories in verse, kind of, sort of like Homer's The Iliad and The Odyssey, but a lot shorter. And, with modern language, rhyming, and a memorable rhythm. What rhythm and rhyme scheme would work to make it memorable or easy to remember?

That's my question: What rhythm and rhyme scheme are the most memorable or easy to remember? (It's independent of the form or content of the poetry.)

In a pm last night, I received the answer to that question: IMO, iambic pentameter with an aabbccdd rhyme scheme is easy for people to remember

That is all I was looking for.

I appreciate all the other information and answers which were given. They will be helpful and valuable to me if I decide to attempt this. Thank you. :)
 
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Perks

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I'm glad you got an answer that satisfies, although I have to say that I think it's entirely subjective and that you'd likely be better served framing a couple of lines in your head and fiddling with them to see which works best for what you are trying to do.
 

Beach Bunny

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I'm glad you got an answer that satisfies, although I have to say that I think it's entirely subjective and that you'd likely be better served framing a couple of lines in your head and fiddling with them to see which works best for what you are trying to do.

Thank you, Perks. I will keep this in mind. I'm not a very good poet. A starting point is helpful to me. :)
 

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I have a stupid question related to poetry. Hopefully, I can word it correctly.

I don't consider myself a poet and it has been many years since I have either studied it or written anything (and it was crap.) But, I have been toying with an idea. To write historical stories in verse, kind of, sort of like Homer's The Iliad and The Odyssey, but a lot shorter. And, with modern language, rhyming, and a memorable rhythm. What rhythm and rhyme scheme would work to make it memorable or easy to remember?


I've tried something along those lines.
I researched the term Royal George once and came across a poem by William Cowper written to comemorate the events of 29 August 1782 when a ship of the line was lost off the Isle of Wight.

Cowper's poem didn't seem to tell the full story as laid out here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A853706

So here's my version of events:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29790&highlight=royal+george

Is this the sort of thing you mean?
If so, don't forget to inject a little humour as I believe that helps make a poem memorable.
 

Beach Bunny

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I've tried something along those lines.
I researched the term Royal George once and came across a poem by William Cowper written to comemorate the events of 29 August 1782 when a ship of the line was lost off the Isle of Wight.

Cowper's poem didn't seem to tell the full story as laid out here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A853706

So here's my version of events:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29790&highlight=royal+george

Is this the sort of thing you mean?
If so, don't forget to inject a little humour as I believe that helps make a poem memorable.
Yes, that is what I have in mind, but a bit longer maybe as "episodes" which can be put together as one long piece. And with a simpler rhythm. I had to stop and reread lines because I wasn't getting the rhythm of them. :)

Thank you.
 

Ken

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...still remember this rhyming one from grade school:

In 1492,
Columbus sailed the ocean blue.
 

Dichroic

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Thanks, Haskins. I have been looking through my old text books and nothing is jumping out at me. Do you have any suggestions? :)

Seamus Heaney's translation of Beowulf. Whichever of Vikram Seth's books is the poetry one.
 

Beach Bunny

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A friend of mine once edited a Poetry Magazine and I asked him how submissions were going and he said "I've received about 25 decent poems and about 2500 new variations on The Yellow Rose of Texas." What that might mean to you, I do not know, but my guess is that SCAscum will lap up whatever you choose, as long as you help out in the kitchen? Just a guess . . .

The SCA is not the only Medieval Reenactment group in existence. :) And I am not sure what your point is.

Seamus Heaney's translation of Beowulf. Whichever of Vikram Seth's books is the poetry one.
Dang! I just purchased a translation by Burton Raffel. Thank you for the suggestion, I'll look for it during my next trip to the bookstore.
 

KellyAssauer

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Yes, I suppose I was far too subtle. I meant to infer that your finished work must fill two particular criteria: It must be tailored specifically to your audience, and (I believe) it must also be performed live. Given those two parameters, and if I were going to do such a thing, I would not be as concerned with the intricate nuances of the academic study of meter, rhyme, and verse, as I would be the audiences reaction (ie: cloven lemons can hurt if hurled). Given this assignment, and with considerable attention to the reenactors names and dates and acts, I would probably write the piece going back and forth for reference, between a collection of bawdy limericks and Shakespeare's Sonnets. It’s a shame you can’t get two of you together to perform a well rehearsed and comic Bard Slam. I might pay to see that. . .
 

Beach Bunny

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Yes, I suppose I was far too subtle. I meant to infer that your finished work must fill two particular criteria: It must be tailored specifically to your audience, and (I believe) it must also be performed live. Given those two parameters, and if I were going to do such a thing, I would not be as concerned with the intricate nuances of the academic study of meter, rhyme, and verse, as I would be the audiences reaction (ie: cloven lemons can hurt if hurled). Given this assignment, and with considerable attention to the reenactors names and dates and acts, I would probably write the piece going back and forth for reference, between a collection of bawdy limericks and Shakespeare's Sonnets. It’s a shame you can’t get two of you together to perform a well rehearsed and comic Bard Slam. I might pay to see that. . .
Ah, I see. Thank you for your input. I'll keep that in mind.

Actually, I have friends who are bards. You're suggestion for a Bardic Slam gives me an idea for a different project. :)
 

Beach Bunny

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I'm not in college. Your thesis topic is safe from me. ;)

Toss into that fuzzy mix of poet-storytellers and bards prose-storytellers and it gets even fuzzier. :) (<---- That sentence can't be punctuated correctly *shrug*)
 

Beach Bunny

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At once came Beach Bunny
to address both hall and throng
a tale of truth and courage,
and of honor to those wrong’d,

Nay, not modest couplet mouthed,
of those who died or lived,
Nor ode of anguished love,
or promise to thy nare swyved,

-oopsy, no one's ever going to get that . . .
:) LOL ... you're going to have to explain that last line, because a straight translation has me scratching my head on how that works.