Name Dropping? (brand names, famous people)

katatonic · Nov 27, 2008

Hey everyone, i hope this is the right section.

I have a few questions regarding name dropping. In general how far can you take name dropping? And by that I mean is it okay for me to drop brand names, company names, celebrity names and so forth?

It's relevant to my characters personality and career, so it's crucial to my story.

For example, and I free to say that my character has worked for Microsoft? or Pizza hut? or perhaps Warner Bros?

How about doing an ad campaign for Coca Cola? Or perhaps being on the cover of FHM, Sports Illustrated or some other well known magazine?

If I stay away from slander am i okay to proceed?

I'm a little confused....

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Gillhoughly · Nov 27, 2008

A trademark name like Coke or Burger King gets a big letter.

A fake trademark name you made up like FizzyBomb Soda and Cluck in a Bucket gets a big letter.

Get a copy of Strunk and White's Elements of Style, as all this and more is explained.

You need a copy anyway as every writer I know has one on the desk. It's just part of learning the craft so editors like me have less work to do. The less work for us, the better chance you have to make a sale!

Elements of Style may be found cheap at used bookstores.

For example, and I free to say that my character has worked for Microsoft? or Pizza hut? or perhaps Warner Bros?

If you just refer to it in passing once or twice, that's usually okay.

If it's absolutely necessary to a plot and you refer to the inner workings of a company in detail or take the character through a typical work day, I'd suggest playing it safe and make up a corporate name and not use a real one. You never know but that someone might get touchy about it. Google whatever you come up with to make sure it's not been taken.

Birol · Nov 27, 2008

Moved from Novels to BWQ.

Captain Ian · Nov 27, 2008

It's okay, if you don't overuse it, mentioning those brand names all the time. If you intend to just drop in the weight of those names early on in order to establish your MC's credentials, I feel there's nothing wrong. A lot of authors do that -- a small trick to anchor fiction in reality. Like protagonists who are former aircraft engineers working for Boeing, reporters from Washington Post or part-time advisor to General Motors. Plenty of examples all over, but again, use it wisely. Good luck!

dpaterso · Nov 27, 2008

My 2 cents, don't denigrate the company, its boss, its personnel or its product, unless you have darn good reason (and quite possibly an excellent lawyer).

-Derek

katatonic · Nov 27, 2008

Thanks for moving this to the correct section Birol.

I guess i should be upfront with the setting of my story. It's set in the world of high fashion and my main character is obsessed with her image and brand names. So first off she would be name dropping brands of clothes she wears, handbags, perfume, shoes and so on. Then the occasional big name model like Kate Moss, Cindy Crawford etc. Plus the occasional reference to competing model agencies.

I can't think of very many examples of this type of name dropping. Only American Psycho (even though i haven't read it) and perhaps Zoolander (can't remember off the top of my head).

I'd also guess that Glamourama has a lot of name dropping too.

In response to Gillhoughly's post i should also point out that my main character will work for a fictional agency which will show the typical work day. But obviously, i'll have to blend the familiar and include well known brand names of clothes and items that they use.

Most of it will be mentioned in passing and i wont dwell much on the details.

Gillhoughly · Nov 27, 2008

Coolies!

Run with it and good luck!

Captain Ian · Nov 27, 2008

I already want to read it!

katatonic · Nov 27, 2008

Captain Ian said:
I already want to read it!

Haha, I can already picture you changing that opinion if you knew what it was actually about lol. It's one big pile of controversial, taboo, twisted shit, i can say that much.

In general, it's violent, cold, revealing and twisted, oh and of course with a nice hint of black comedy and a new spin on a fairly overdone creature.

Hmmm

Donkey · Nov 27, 2008

This is just my personal opinion....as a reader.

When I'm reading fiction, and I happen upon a popular, current brand name, it tends to take me out of the story. It makes me pause and re-evaluate the characters, the scene, the setting, the suspension of disbelief, etc. If I read the name of a company or brand that I'm familiar with in 'real life', I tend to access person memories related to that name, and it breaks my rhythm. Unless, of course, it's based on a true story, and I'm aware of that up front.

I'm especially annoyed by product placement in movies.
My opinion is that it's better to leave the reader in as much of a escapist mode as possible.

katatonic · Nov 27, 2008

Yea, i totally understand where you're coming from donkey. Everything comes down to personal opinion, and i know some will be for and and some against. Same with third person and first person (which by the way i was shocked to see how many people disliked).

I'm not going to get worked up on it. It's my first novel so its suppose to be fun, suppose to be an experiment to help me find my voice and get some writing done.

Captain Ian · Nov 27, 2008

katatonic said:
It's one big pile of controversial, taboo, twisted shit, i can say that much.

That is often my opinion of what I write myself.

RJK · Nov 27, 2008

Some brand names have become a part of our language. In a fast food place you order a #2 with a Coke, right?

Or, in the case of my MC, he drinks Diet Pepsi. I think it would be harder to stay in the story if he were to say "Could I have a sugar free cola?" rather than say "I'd like a Diet Pepsi if you have one." (My apologies if you're from Atlanta. If he goes south, he'll order a Diet Coke).

KTC · Nov 27, 2008

Elements of Style can also be found for free on the web. http://www.bartleby.com/141/

Kalyke · Nov 27, 2008

You might also look up fair use when it comes to Popular Culture. Although trademarks are trademarks they are also popular culture. Even team names and buildings, or clothing patterns for that matter are usually trade marked or copyrighted in some way.

IceCreamEmpress · Nov 27, 2008

You can use the names of real products, companies, places, and public figures as long as they're not being denigrated in any way. Simply being associated with unpleasant characters isn't enough to denigrate them.

It's okay to have your evil serial killer enjoy a Diet Coke and a Snickers bar in the parking lot of Disney World; it's not okay to have your noble cancer researcher tell her assistant not to drink Diet Coke because it's full of toxins, not to eat the Snickers bar because she found a dead mouse in one once, and not to go to Disney World because when she worked there she and her fellow cast members used to pick tourists' pockets while they were posing for pictures.

OK: "Joe's such a jerk! How did he get this job?" "He was a big wheel at Microsoft, and his resume looked great."

Not OK: "Joe's such a jerk! How did he get this job?" "He bribed someone at AccountTemps to give him a recommendation."

katatonic · Nov 27, 2008

Thank you so much IceCreamEmpress, that sums up my question very well.

I have another question though, regarding truth which may be seen as denigrated.

Example: Kurt Cobain being a sack of shit for being addicted to drugs.

Fullback · Nov 27, 2008

The last word comes from the publisher. Some publishers will say no to all references, because they don't want to have to deal with making a judgment call about it. Others may say it's OK, but require written permission from all copyright holders, which is another way of saying no. The decision is not always up to you.

I suppose one way to address your last example is ask how you would feel about this example: katatonic is a sack of shit for posting these questions on this bulletin board.

That could be my opinion, just like your example could be your opinion. That doesn't mean that ether are the truth. I'm not the type to hurl insults, so I don't understand why someone would write that, except as dialogue.

IceCreamEmpress · Nov 27, 2008

katatonic said:
Example: Kurt Cobain being a sack of shit for being addicted to drugs.

Kurt Cobain's own writings and public statements indicated that he was addicted to drugs, so I don't see how repeating that could possibly be libelous in any way. I would disagree about the "sack of shit" part, but that's your opinion, and again can't be libelous.

Fullback makes a good point--every publisher has a slightly different interpretation of these things, so be ready to make changes as needed. Still, if you stick to substantiated facts about public figures, and non-derogatory portrayals of commercial products and establishments, you'll be on the right track.

katatonic · Nov 27, 2008

Thanks for your response Fullback. To answer your question, i wouldn't feel bad if you said that. I don't get worked up over little things like that

.

I'm quite confused because on one hand, reviews can state what ever they want about a piece of work. No holding back.

Same as politicians, they get hammered more than anyone and i'm sure they don't consent to practically any of it.

Then there's religion, which anyone can take a shot at, but most often its thought of as taboo.

This whole freedom of speech and freedom of religion is confusing stuff.

Beach Bunny · Nov 27, 2008

katatonic said:
This whole freedom of speech and freedom of religion is confusing stuff.

You are free to say whatever you want to about whatever you want. HOWEVER, you are also responsible for what you say, the manner in which you say it and the circumstances. You can't harm someone with your speech.

For example, You are free to falsely yell "Fire!" in a crowded building and create a stampede. But, you will then be held responsible for the injury and suffering you caused by doing so.

So, you can say Prada makes crappy handbags. But, you and the publisher will then be responsible for any harm you cause Prada by expressing that opinion. (I have absolutely no idea whether Prada even makes handbags, I'm only using their recognizable name to illustrate a point.

)

katatonic · Nov 27, 2008

Ok, that makes sense. So if i include brand names and so forth but never go into whether or not they are good products, i should be fine?

So name drop, but keep them in neutral territory, or perhaps a little praise. I'm sure they wouldn't care if they were praised.

Or perhaps provide factual information that may not necessarily be good.

Beach Bunny · Nov 27, 2008

katatonic said:
Ok, that makes sense. So if i include brand names and so forth but never go into whether or not they are good products, i should be fine?

So name drop, but keep them in neutral territory, or perhaps a little praise. I'm sure they wouldn't care if they were praised.

Or perhaps provide factual information that may not necessarily be good.

I personally would be leary about the last part. Someone with better experience than I have can answer that. At least, you better be able to document whatever it is that you say that isn't necessarily good.

I've read contemporary novels that drop names all over the place. Describing someone as wearing Jimmy Choo stilettos, carrying a Prada handbag (maybe they do make them), Dolce & Gabana dress, with Harry Winston jewelry. Everytime a character is wearing something new, it's a designer whatever. Same with cars. They drive Beemers, Lexus, Honda's, Lamborghini's. They eat Twinkies and Lucky Charms. They drink Heineken, Coke, Evian ...

But, when it comes to working for a company, it is is usually a made up company. They may have worked for Big Name Recognizable Company in the past, but now they are employed by Fictional Name Company.

I've seen celebrites dropped into novels. That one gets trickier. It's usually a reference to a past association with a main character. Having a celebrity do more than that in a story, uh, someone else should answer.

I'd say go ahead and write whatever it is that is in your head. Names can be easily replaced with the edit replace function in your wordprocessor. And the publisher will tell you what bits have to be changed or taken out all together.

fullbookjacket · Nov 28, 2008

I severely limit any mention of products or companies in what I write, just as a personal preference. My reasons are that I don't feel the need to be a corporate shill, and that product names sort of inhibit the timelessness of the work. However, better writers than me (Stephen King, for instance) liberally use those names in their work. King feels it gives the work a sense of reality.

In my last novel, I think the only products or company names I used were for automobiles (Jeep, Kia, Buick, etc.) or media companies (CNN, Fox, etc.). I felt it was better to say "the Police Chief raced toward the bridge in his Jeep" than it was to say "the Police Chief raced toward the bridge in his open-cab, smallish, budget-conscious, sport-utility vehicle that was based on a World War II era design."

IceCreamEmpress · Nov 28, 2008

All this talk of Prada makes me think of The Devil Wears Prada. The villain of the book wears Prada and drives a Porsche and her signature accessory is an Hermes scarf; on the other hand, the magazine where she and the heroine work is the fictional Runway magazine.

See the difference?

Name Dropping? (brand names, famous people)

katatonic

Gillhoughly

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Birol

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The Provocative One

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