I was wondering is there a rule or just wondering others opionions on what you do. Do you use Adverbs and Adjectives once per scene or per sentence?
When to use Adverbs and adjectives
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I don't keep a running total. But I've heard the advice about avoiding adverbs so often that I automatically look twice at a sentence whenever I find myself typing any word that ends in -ly. It's not a hard rule, it's just general rule of thumb advice for fiction writers, because adverbs can weaken a good line, and overuse of same soon becomes obvious. I also think there are times when an adverb can add something.
I use as many words to describe a character or location or object as I think may be needed. Though whenever I find myself typing several adjectives in a row, I look twice at the sentence just in case I'm overdoing it or sprinkling too much purple prose. Again not a hard rule, just a rough rule of thumb for fiction writers.
Use the Force, trust your own instincts, etc.
-Derek
I use as many words to describe a character or location or object as I think may be needed. Though whenever I find myself typing several adjectives in a row, I look twice at the sentence just in case I'm overdoing it or sprinkling too much purple prose. Again not a hard rule, just a rough rule of thumb for fiction writers.
Use the Force, trust your own instincts, etc.
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Use an adverb whenever:
Similar for adjectives and nouns.
Dale
- It expresses meaning with a precision, clarity, or vividness that you cannot achieve by choosing a better naked verb.
- It expresses the narrator's mood or attitude with a precision, clarity, or vividness that you cannot achieve by choosing a better naked verb. (This is probably a special case of the first bullet, but I've seen adverbs used so effectively to convey attitude that it deserves its own bullet.)
- It gives your sentence a more pleasing meter, rhythm, alliteration, or other quality of sound.
Similar for adjectives and nouns.
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Ditto. Nine times out of ten, I find a sentence works better with something in place of an adverb.
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Yikes! Don't start counting and trying to remove them to meet a random magic number just because. I knew a writer with a zero-tolerance policy towards both forms. He religiously pruned them all out of his story, and his story suffered for it.
Treat them like salt in food--a little goes a long ways. Too much, and the food is oversalted. But there isn't a black-and-white solution of editing out X and getting published.
I think maybe start with two things:
If you see an adverb describing something, like "he walked quickly across the street," see if you can find a better word to replace the "walked quickly" (dashed).
Look up the words in the dictionary and see what they mean. I've found phrases like "caressed gently" and "slammed hard"--and the second word means the same thing as the first. So would "dashed quickly."
Adverb hunting is for editing, not writing.
I don't worry about anything in a first draft but getting words down and seeing how the scene plays out. My first drafts would make you cringe. I trained as a graphic designer, so I approach writing the way I approach drawing.
Step One: Rough Sketch.
This is a quick outline that blocks out what you're going to write about. It might be a paragraph or two, it might be a page. Whatever is needed to get the idea down on paper.
Step Two: Line Art
I write the scene, letting the words flow to get the bare bones of what happens down on paper. It's ugly, it's bad, it looks like a third-grader wrote it.
Step Three: Coloring
Once I have the basic scene (complete with adverbs and passive verbs) I go back and start fleshing it out, putting in the things that will make the scene come alive. Setting, internalization, stage directions, etc.
Step Four: Shading
Now is when I'll go adverb hunting. I know what the scene is doing, I have all the pieces and the scene works as planned. I look for pesky adverbs, awkward phrases. overused words, etc. I trust my ear on this, and it's helpful to read scenes aloud. You catch all kinds of funky things that way. But it's also okay to have a cheat sheet with things to watch out for. I have a whole list of things I look for after a book is done, but before it goes to my critiquers.
Don't sweat the small stuff until the big stuff is done
As Ally Carter says on her website, "Don't get it right, get it written." Truer words were never spoken.
I don't worry about anything in a first draft but getting words down and seeing how the scene plays out. My first drafts would make you cringe. I trained as a graphic designer, so I approach writing the way I approach drawing.
Step One: Rough Sketch.
This is a quick outline that blocks out what you're going to write about. It might be a paragraph or two, it might be a page. Whatever is needed to get the idea down on paper.
Step Two: Line Art
I write the scene, letting the words flow to get the bare bones of what happens down on paper. It's ugly, it's bad, it looks like a third-grader wrote it.
Step Three: Coloring
Once I have the basic scene (complete with adverbs and passive verbs) I go back and start fleshing it out, putting in the things that will make the scene come alive. Setting, internalization, stage directions, etc.
Step Four: Shading
Now is when I'll go adverb hunting. I know what the scene is doing, I have all the pieces and the scene works as planned. I look for pesky adverbs, awkward phrases. overused words, etc. I trust my ear on this, and it's helpful to read scenes aloud. You catch all kinds of funky things that way. But it's also okay to have a cheat sheet with things to watch out for. I have a whole list of things I look for after a book is done, but before it goes to my critiquers.
Don't sweat the small stuff until the big stuff is done
As Ally Carter says on her website, "Don't get it right, get it written." Truer words were never spoken.I keep adverbs and adjectives to a minimum. Like the heartbreaker and love-taker that is the soon-to-be-married seun says (damn you) nine times out of ten, something else works better.
If you need an adverb to clarify your verb, you've used the wrong verb.
Okay, not an absolute, but it's a rule which works in most cases. Adverbs and adjectives are like salt - used sparingly they add flavour. One grain too many, and the whole delicacy is spoiled.
If you need an adverb to clarify your verb, you've used the wrong verb.
Okay, not an absolute, but it's a rule which works in most cases. Adverbs and adjectives are like salt - used sparingly they add flavour. One grain too many, and the whole delicacy is spoiled.
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I use adverbs and adjectives when I feel they're needed, and don't use them when they're not. Same as with anything else I use to write.
I guess I just think that focusing on NOT using something can be just as bad as focusing on USING something (forcing something into the writing when it doesn't need to be there). While something can always be overdone (and that should be looked out for), there's nothing inherently wrong with adjectives/adverbs; they shouldn't be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS. They have their use just like anything else. And sometimes what one person thinks is a poor use of an adjective/adverb won't be poor use for another.
When people say, "You could write this without using that adverb," I'll think, "That's nice, but I wanted to use that adverb there, because IMO it belongs." Somebody will always agree, somebody will always disagree. I wouldn't write something if it wasn't the way I wanted it to be. Some people will thus think my writing is lousy; but some won't.
That's just my opinion. Of course not everyone will agree.
I guess I just think that focusing on NOT using something can be just as bad as focusing on USING something (forcing something into the writing when it doesn't need to be there). While something can always be overdone (and that should be looked out for), there's nothing inherently wrong with adjectives/adverbs; they shouldn't be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS. They have their use just like anything else. And sometimes what one person thinks is a poor use of an adjective/adverb won't be poor use for another.
When people say, "You could write this without using that adverb," I'll think, "That's nice, but I wanted to use that adverb there, because IMO it belongs." Somebody will always agree, somebody will always disagree. I wouldn't write something if it wasn't the way I wanted it to be. Some people will thus think my writing is lousy; but some won't.
That's just my opinion. Of course not everyone will agree.
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I would say rarely.
However I really like the idea of using them to illuminate character, so rarely doesn't mean never.
However I really like the idea of using them to illuminate character, so rarely doesn't mean never.
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What Tehuti said, pretty much.
Use adjectives and adverbs whenever you need them.
Sometimes an adverb is more appropriate than the bunch of verbs and nouns you might string to replace it. Adjectives and adverbs exist for a reason. They MUST be used. Or rather, they can't be unused. Just how you use them is up to you. So... use them whenever you want! you can always eliminate the bad ones when you're editing. But don't let your writing halt only because you're wasting time thinking of an appropriate substitute for an adverb. Be free.
Now then, showing instead of telling is always good, so he's an example. Allan Folsom's DAY AFTER TOMORROW was a 900-page debut thriller that was filled with adverbs in almost every sentence. Clunky, ugly adverbs that did nothing for the prose. There were so many adverbs that my eyes got blurry. Still, that book earned Mr Folsom a record advance deal of 4 million U.S. dollars and international fame. So who gives a damn about the adverbs. Use them when you need them, and then decide if you really need them. NOBODY CAN DECIDE FOR YOU HOW TO WRITE YOUR BOOK. Good luck!
Use adjectives and adverbs whenever you need them.
Sometimes an adverb is more appropriate than the bunch of verbs and nouns you might string to replace it. Adjectives and adverbs exist for a reason. They MUST be used. Or rather, they can't be unused. Just how you use them is up to you. So... use them whenever you want! you can always eliminate the bad ones when you're editing. But don't let your writing halt only because you're wasting time thinking of an appropriate substitute for an adverb. Be free.
Now then, showing instead of telling is always good, so he's an example. Allan Folsom's DAY AFTER TOMORROW was a 900-page debut thriller that was filled with adverbs in almost every sentence. Clunky, ugly adverbs that did nothing for the prose. There were so many adverbs that my eyes got blurry. Still, that book earned Mr Folsom a record advance deal of 4 million U.S. dollars and international fame. So who gives a damn about the adverbs. Use them when you need them, and then decide if you really need them. NOBODY CAN DECIDE FOR YOU HOW TO WRITE YOUR BOOK.
Good luck!
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This is worth repeating
As for me, I have a pretty simple rule whenever I use an adverb or adjective.
When I happen upon one of these literary creatures, I try to come up with a better way to phrase, describe, write, etc the scene. If I can, I use that, if I can't, the adverb/adjective stays.
I'm also very very VERY conscious of the overuse of adverbs/adjectives within the same sentence/paragraph/section.
To much use/usage/description get very annoying/cumbersome/distracting and before you know/understand/comprehend it you've have lost/displaced/annoyed the reader such that they will put/throw/heave your book away in favor of another choice/story/selection.
As with everything, moderation is the key and you have to rely on your 'writer's ear' for that. But one hard and fast rule that I apply is that about 80% - 90% of the time, it isn't needed.
that's my take
Mel...
p.s. yes that wasn't all adverbs/adjectives, I was just making a point about repetition and too much usage of adverbs/adjectives
As for me, I have a pretty simple rule whenever I use an adverb or adjective.
When I happen upon one of these literary creatures, I try to come up with a better way to phrase, describe, write, etc the scene. If I can, I use that, if I can't, the adverb/adjective stays.
I'm also very very VERY conscious of the overuse of adverbs/adjectives within the same sentence/paragraph/section.
To much use/usage/description get very annoying/cumbersome/distracting and before you know/understand/comprehend it you've have lost/displaced/annoyed the reader such that they will put/throw/heave your book away in favor of another choice/story/selection.
As with everything, moderation is the key and you have to rely on your 'writer's ear' for that. But one hard and fast rule that I apply is that about 80% - 90% of the time, it isn't needed.
that's my take
Mel...
p.s. yes that wasn't all adverbs/adjectives, I was just making a point about repetition and too much usage of adverbs/adjectives
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I use them in first drafts and let the writing flow, but I suggest in final drafts only keep them on the last page or other pages at a minium, for inpact, if you must use them
A horror scene
...He leant towards her slowly and whispered, "Goodnight sweet heart," before he quickly picked up the heavy knife
Same line written without them.
...He leant towards her and whispered, "Goodnight sweet heart," before he picked up the knife
mmm, I think it has to do with impact, and if they were only used as they are in the first example after not being used elsewhere, it would have much more impact than the second example. A sentence without them reads differently then with them. But if your dialogue contains all that is necessary then you don't need them, but sometimes it will still read better with them.
He leant towards her and whispered, "Goodnight bitch," before he picked up the knife
Now, well, I don't know but lets try a love scene
...He leant towards her slowly and whispered, "Goodnight sweet heart," before he quickly picked up the condom
He sounds like a jerk the line above...he's going about it all too slowly to start with and too quickly near the end.
...He leant towards her and whispered, "Goodnight sweet heart. Do you want a bit?" before he picked up the condom
lolol I should go to bed. But they should be used sometimes and not others. Only the writer of the piece can decide the best time to use them, and readers will revoult if they are used too much.
A horror scene
...He leant towards her slowly and whispered, "Goodnight sweet heart," before he quickly picked up the heavy knife
Same line written without them.
...He leant towards her and whispered, "Goodnight sweet heart," before he picked up the knife
mmm, I think it has to do with impact, and if they were only used as they are in the first example after not being used elsewhere, it would have much more impact than the second example. A sentence without them reads differently then with them. But if your dialogue contains all that is necessary then you don't need them, but sometimes it will still read better with them.
He leant towards her and whispered, "Goodnight bitch," before he picked up the knife
Now, well, I don't know but lets try a love scene
...He leant towards her slowly and whispered, "Goodnight sweet heart," before he quickly picked up the condom
He sounds like a jerk the line above...he's going about it all too slowly to start with and too quickly near the end.
...He leant towards her and whispered, "Goodnight sweet heart. Do you want a bit?" before he picked up the condom
lolol I should go to bed. But they should be used sometimes and not others. Only the writer of the piece can decide the best time to use them, and readers will revoult if they are used too much.
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Much good advice above, but realize that there is not one style in the world. Some styles are bland, with few modifiers. Others are spicy, with many. It's the aptness of modifiers that makes them work, in either case.
Often, I find, it's the unexpected modifier that packs a punch. A pretty rose? Meh, most are pretty. A red rose? Well, that's a good work-a-day adjective, because there are other colors of roses. A cold rose? Now I'm more interested. A sick rose? Blake used this one to good effect. A piebald rose? Now I'm working my visual imagination harder. A splayed rose? Ditto, and a good description of the aged flower about to drop its petals. A jagged rose? Well, you get the idea.
Just don't use tongue-buster adverbs like "horrifiedly" or "frustratedly." I call these "Hermiones," in honor of Rowling's character, who is always saying things "modifiedly."
Often, I find, it's the unexpected modifier that packs a punch. A pretty rose? Meh, most are pretty. A red rose? Well, that's a good work-a-day adjective, because there are other colors of roses. A cold rose? Now I'm more interested. A sick rose? Blake used this one to good effect. A piebald rose? Now I'm working my visual imagination harder. A splayed rose? Ditto, and a good description of the aged flower about to drop its petals. A jagged rose? Well, you get the idea.
Just don't use tongue-buster adverbs like "horrifiedly" or "frustratedly." I call these "Hermiones," in honor of Rowling's character, who is always saying things "modifiedly."
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I use them as a see fit -- mostly it's about style and flow and how it sounds. I also aim at painting a vivid picture and excite the five senses and the right adjectives could go a long way. The wrong ones would be cliched, vague or dull.
As for adverbs, I try to avoid them. I tend to think they don't add much to the details -- instead, they rely on the readers' own perception. Everyone has a different idea of what "angrily" means -- they can be as cliched, vague or dull as the adjective "angry." It's all about show vs. tell and I tend to find adverbs dull. I like to focus on the verbs and the actual actions. Now, of course, it doesn't mean I won't use them at all.
As for adverbs, I try to avoid them. I tend to think they don't add much to the details -- instead, they rely on the readers' own perception. Everyone has a different idea of what "angrily" means -- they can be as cliched, vague or dull as the adjective "angry." It's all about show vs. tell and I tend to find adverbs dull. I like to focus on the verbs and the actual actions. Now, of course, it doesn't mean I won't use them at all.
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Pop quiz: How many adverbs are in the following sentence?
"Therefore, I'll happily drive there fast tomorrow."
Answer: Five. "Therefore," "happily," "there," "fast," and "tomorrow" are all adverbs in this sentence.
When we talk about the adverbs whose overuse can hurt writing, those are "manner adverbs" -- the ones that often end in "ly." But the word "adverbs" actually refers to a much broader group.
I agree with others here: Don't count. Just be aware that manner adverbs have a tendency to backfire. We use 'em when we want to make something more powerful, but they can instead sound weak.
"I'm really, really, really angry!" sounds (to my ear) weak.
"I'm angry" seems to pack a lot more punch in a less-is-more kind of way.
Another example:
"John excitedly grabbed the gun, energetically pulled the trigger, and enthusiastically watched as Steve quickly hit the floor."
vs.
"John grabbed the gun, pulled the trigger, and watched Steve hit the floor."
It's subjective and debatable, but to my ear less is more.
On the other hand, I love what Danthia said: "Adverb hunting is for editing, not writing."
Just beware of the pitfalls of manner adverbs and keep an eye out for them on the re-reads.
"Therefore, I'll happily drive there fast tomorrow."
Answer: Five. "Therefore," "happily," "there," "fast," and "tomorrow" are all adverbs in this sentence.
When we talk about the adverbs whose overuse can hurt writing, those are "manner adverbs" -- the ones that often end in "ly." But the word "adverbs" actually refers to a much broader group.
I agree with others here: Don't count. Just be aware that manner adverbs have a tendency to backfire. We use 'em when we want to make something more powerful, but they can instead sound weak.
"I'm really, really, really angry!" sounds (to my ear) weak.
"I'm angry" seems to pack a lot more punch in a less-is-more kind of way.
Another example:
"John excitedly grabbed the gun, energetically pulled the trigger, and enthusiastically watched as Steve quickly hit the floor."
vs.
"John grabbed the gun, pulled the trigger, and watched Steve hit the floor."
It's subjective and debatable, but to my ear less is more.
On the other hand, I love what Danthia said: "Adverb hunting is for editing, not writing."
Just beware of the pitfalls of manner adverbs and keep an eye out for them on the re-reads.
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To add onto June's description:
Adverbs of Manner
She moved slowly and spoke quietly.
Adverbs of Place
She has lived on the island all her life.
She still lives there now.
Adverbs of Frequency
She takes the boat to the mainland every day.
She often goes by herself.
Adverbs of Time
She tries to get back before dark.
It's starting to get dark now.
She finished her tea first.
She left early.
Adverbs of Purpose
She drives her boat slowly to avoid hitting the rocks.
She shops in several stores to get the best buys.
Adjectives are a valuable tool when not abused and overused.
Adverbs of manner are also a tool to be used in moderation.
Both are like wine, when overused you end up begging on the street corner.
Adverbs of Manner
She moved slowly and spoke quietly.
Adverbs of Place
She has lived on the island all her life.
She still lives there now.
Adverbs of Frequency
She takes the boat to the mainland every day.
She often goes by herself.
Adverbs of Time
She tries to get back before dark.
It's starting to get dark now.
She finished her tea first.
She left early.
Adverbs of Purpose
She drives her boat slowly to avoid hitting the rocks.
She shops in several stores to get the best buys.
Adjectives are a valuable tool when not abused and overused.
Adverbs of manner are also a tool to be used in moderation.
Both are like wine, when overused you end up begging on the street corner.
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Fine, but don't expect to apply the same rules of grammar to dialogue as you do elsewhere. It might be perfectly in character for someone to use really the way you do in the first example, or to use adjectives in a way that the writer might not otherwise.
Cheers,
Rob
I've tried. Unfortunately (gah!), it seems adverbs are as clumsy and awkward in bed as they are in sentences.
Note to anyone who may have thought I was being rude to Chucklepants - I like to think we have that sort of banter, where we can take the mickey out of each other.
Still, I apologise for giving anyone the wrong impression, if it came across as overly cheeky or aggressive.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. For more banter, please meet us over in OP. Thank you.
Still, I apologise for giving anyone the wrong impression, if it came across as overly cheeky or aggressive.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. For more banter, please meet us over in OP. Thank you.
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