Voice

I remember that in Barry Eilser's KILLING RAIN, he went with 1st person POV and threw in 3rd person for other characters in chapters without the MC appearing. I absolutely hated it, for many reasons.

I think that 1st person narration is easier for people who have natural storytelling abilities, who can write the story on behalf of the MC the way they would present the story to an audience. And perhaps you can get away with more colloquialisms, jargon, foul language, etc. Third person, in my view, takes a bit more patience and diligence to write and develop a deep characterization.

But the results can be brilliant or poor in either case.

So... if your 1st person narration looks better to you, by all means use it and enjoy it.
Mixing the two seems dubious -- at least as long you can see with the naked eye the difference in quality between the styles. For a reader, going back and forth can be jarring, especially if the transition is not so seamless.

I'm really interested in voice right now. I think we hear the voice more easily in first person but there are plenty of strong third person voices, written with the POV character's personality and thoughts in mind. A good resource on this is Alicia Rasley's The Power of Point of View. She talks about first, third, omniscient, close, etc. It's a great exploration of the advantages and disadvantages of each and how to use them in ways that work.

No, I don't think it's "just natural" for first person narration to be more lively than third. However, I think it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy: If you convince yourself third person is naturally less lively, then that's how you'll write.

If you're used to writing first person, you may be assuming that third is distant, and that may be coming through in your narration. The writer actually has a great deal of control over distance with third person. Yes, you can pull back and write it very distant. But you can also zoom in so close that you're only the tiniest step removed from first.

I suspect that when you write first person, you position yourself inside your POV char's head, so that you experience the scene through her.

Where are you--the writer--when you write third person? Do you stand back and watch the whole scene at a distance, objectively? If so, there's a good chance you're writing it distantly. Or do you stay up close and personal with your POV char? Do you sit on her shoulder, seeing only what she sees, hearing only what she hears, smelling only what she smells, noticing only what she notices?

Personally I get my "voice" heard more in my work when I write in third person. It's probably because I have bits and pieces of "me" in all of my characters, never all just in one. So I can express through everyone's points of view.

I hope that made sense.

Some writers still lend a lot of the viewpoint character's personality to the voice even when writing in third person. You're right, it's a little more challenging to write self-delusion or make liberal use of profanity, etc, in third, but perhaps you're distancing yourself too much from the viewpoint character if it seems flat. What if you tried writing the hero's point of view from first person, just to explore his voice, and then if you think it would make more structural sense, then go and "translate" that first to third person - so essentially just replace all the "I" and "my" with "He" and "his". Then read it over and see if there are elements that are still too close to the character that you wouldn't want to keep in third person.

You also might want to explore a few published books and see if you can find a model of some third person with strong voice. I'm not sure off the top of my head if these fit, but my guess would be that some writing with a lot of regional flavor - like Faulkner or Flannery O'Connor - would still show a strong voice in third person. Also, off the top of my head, didn't Raymond Chandler write at least some of his stuff in third? First person seems to be particularly in vogue with the strong stylistic writers today, but if you look back a few decades you might find some good models.

Everyone has their own strengths. I did third for everything, then I tried first for a new novel because it just felt right. I was floored at how much I prefered it. Now I do just about everything in first person. By the way, that's the novel I got an agent with and then sold. So I know for sure this is where my voice lies. My third person stuff was nothing but rejections, even with the same agent.

Go with what signs to you and captures your voice best. Voice is critical in selling your work. As my agent said, "I can fix plot" but voice is something you either have or you don't.

Are you writing a tight third person narative? If not I would give that a go. That, in my opinion, is just like first person in many respects.

Jeremy said:

Are you writing a tight third person narative? If not I would give that a go. That, in my opinion, is just like first person in many respects.

Click to expand...

I agree with Jeremy. Third Person allows alot of Firstish Personish flexibility.

Some authors do this by eliminating Tag lines after dialogue, but using Tag lines to identify thoughts. In fact, the less use of tag lines, the better if you can create a context so the reader can keep track.

"Get out of my way!" Ben raged as he stormed out of the room. "I'd like to take my boot and kick down this door," he thought, wondering if he could ever gain back his dignity. Ben recounted every time his father slapped his face, kicked down his door, and pulled him out of bed. "I don't have to take this!"

I think that first person narratives tend to be shorter than those with 3rd person, especially multiple POV third person. It is the nature of the beast.

MsK said:

So... this past week, I've been experimenting with converting my heroines scenes into first person, and keeping the heros scenes in third person (She's the narrator 75% of the time and his third person scenes are in separate chapters- so there's no confusion there)

It works- kind of. My voice is definitely stronger and has more personality with the first person narration. But... it may not be the best fit for this particular story.

Click to expand...

Why not do both of them in first person? Her chapters in her voice, his chapters in his? There's nothing confusing about that; it's reasonably common.

I personally seem to prefer third. I don't find it any less lively--it's always got a mood and a personality; you can write about a character in the third person but keep the mood and personality of that character. Or you can write about them with a separate, narratorial mood and personality. But either way, there can be just as much personality in 3d as in 1st. I wonder if the problem is that you're writing in the third the way people write in encyclopedias or textbooks--i.e., are you equating third person writing with explanatory, factual, academic writing, and thus unintentionally losing all your style and personality?

Here's something to try: take a chapter that you've rewritten in the first person. Now convert it back into the third person, BUT DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ELSE--change only the pronouns. Leave everything else the way it is now, in the first-person version. Now read what you've got: it should still have all the liveliness and personality it had in the first person.

Maybe you're not comfortable with your own writing voice? First persons are the voices of characters, which takes the pressure off of us writers to say clever things (I know that doesn't literally make sense, but stay with me here). Third person, the spotlight is on you. Which is difficult to deal with because your goal is to tell the audience (and lighting guy) hey, look over there! That's interesting! Look at this character! This is why they're interesting!

BTW I'm a first/present person. Consequently I usually end up killing myself in those and I haven't quite figured out why yet... Point is, we all have different comfort zones. But my first NOVEL is third person. Since I'm more fluent with first person and shorter works, this is waaaay out of my comfort zone. Still, I'm glad I did. Make sure it's not the way you're approaching this rather than the POV that needs a change.

Then again, I'm an idiot. I'd sooner listen to the fine people who posted before me

I've never written a first person story that I would care to publish (to date). It is fairly difficult for me, because that would mean having to get into another head and that means I would have to be smarter than I actually am. There is a rule, maybe written somewhere that a writer needs to be smarter than the character. The writer has to be smarter, faster, braver and so forth. Everything the character is, the writer has to be able to top it in real life-- I just can't do that. I tend to write cowardly, paranoid, and pretty selfish first persons because that is what I do best.

I write mainly multiple POV third person. (I've written first, but it's not my preference.) I haven't any trouble getting the characters' individual voices across because I just put myself in their heads and write from their POV. It's the same as first person...except you're writing "he/she" instead of "I."

That's pretty much the only difference, that I can see. Aside from that, you can get as into their heads and thoughts and be as lively as you wish. I know I do.

Use Her Name said:

There is a rule, maybe written somewhere that a writer needs to be smarter than the character. The writer has to be smarter, faster, braver and so forth. Everything the character is, the writer has to be able to top it in real life

Click to expand...

I understand the concept, but I don't think this ALWAYS applies, else I must be channeling supernatural beings who are a whole lot braver and more clever and sociable than I am!!