Fantasy Without Archery

I don't see why it would be, dclary. My Asphodel series has lots of archers--because there are lots of Elves. Darkshifters doesn't have a single (sling or) arrow making an appearance throughout the story; it's not appropriate for the type of combat I use in the story. I'd just focus on what you need to tell the story and not spend time/effort worrying about whether you need to include a specific archetype.

That's the great thing about our genre, I think. We don't have to include anything.

dclary said:

Anyhoo, anyone else get through their Fantasy WIP (especially if you're writing high fantasy) and realize you've not included all the staples of the genre? (Isn't a hot-shot sharpshooting archer required today?)

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I purposely am excluding as many staples as I can.

Archery likely evolved from the spear chucker which encreased the power and distance of a thrown spear 5x or more.

You may have a cultural/ethical ban on thrown weapons since it could be seen as cowardice/dishonorable not to face the enemy hand to hand.

I'm offended, Deek. Deeply so. You know me and my love of longbows.

I cry nao.

Yeah, I'd be skeptical of a no-archery world. The bow is a stone age weapon, maybe even older, bone age. The sword is a much newer thing (unless its a macuahuitl).

I don't really think that 'cultural bans' on weapons would work, either. At least not universally. The Church in Europe technically banned the crossbow. That didn't work. Also, in early england bows were banned, because anyone with a bow was suspected of being a poacher. This didnt' stop them from existing and even growing in popularity, until the government officially embraced them as the national weapon. It may be that certain social classes couldn't use a certain weapon, or not for a particular kind of combat; (like judicial combat) that has precedent.

Sarpedon said:

Yeah, I'd be skeptical of a no-archery world. The bow is a stone age weapon, maybe even older, bone age. The sword is a much newer thing (unless its a macuahuitl).

I don't really think that 'cultural bans' on weapons would work, either. At least not universally. The Church in Europe technically banned the crossbow. That didn't work. Also, in early england bows were banned, because anyone with a bow was suspected of being a poacher. This didnt' stop them from existing and even growing in popularity, until the government officially embraced them as the national weapon. It may be that certain social classes couldn't use a certain weapon, or not for a particular kind of combat; (like judicial combat) that has precedent.

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I don't think he said it was a no archery world -- only that he wasn't using the 'Archer' archetype in any of his characters.

dclary said:

Well, the army has archers, and the woodland men uses bows to hunt and fight. This all comes to play when the world goes to war in the end, but our heroes for 90% of the book simply don't use -- or even have -- one.

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I don't see anything wrong with that.

It's not like a D&D group that seems to require at least one PC for non-magic ranged attack purposes.

(At least, every group that I ever played in or DM-ed had one PC with a bow and ranged attack skills. Except CP2020 and Shadowrun; we all had guns.)

Oh thats fine. Sorry I misunderstood. You could have your MCs all come from a city. That would be a nice change. Archery is kind of a rural thing. Like Machiavelli said, recruit your infantry from the country and your cavalry from the towns.

What are local weather conditions like? A Slipstream-like world with permanent high or even gale-force winds would play havoc with archery, just for example's sake. Maybe sorcerous in nature.

-Derek

It's been a long time since I've written fantasy. My last attempt at a fantasy novel though, I ended up with an amazing epic set in an epic fantasy island with an extremely epic history I'd made up. My characters were to set out on an awesome epic quest to destroy teh Evil force. Epically.

And all that good jazz.

However, my world had neither magic, nor fantasy races. Just humans. Plain, ordinary humans.

I'm ready for my stoning now.

kuwisdelu said:

It's been a long time since I've written fantasy. My last attempt at a fantasy novel though, I ended up with an amazing epic set in an epic fantasy island with an extremely epic history I'd made up. My characters were to set out on an awesome epic quest to destroy teh Evil force. Epically.

And all that good jazz.

However, my world had neither magic, nor fantasy races. Just humans. Plain, ordinary humans.

I'm ready for my stoning now.

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Precursor to Martin's Song of Ice and Fire?

I keep reading this thread title as 'Fantasy Without Adultery'.

I wasn't aware there was a market for such a thing.

Do prophecies count as magic?

scarletpeaches said:

I keep reading this thread title as 'Fantasy Without Adultery'.

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Now that would be serious missing staple

I don't have sharpshooting elves, but then again I don't write high fantasy

dclary said:

Anyhoo, anyone else get through their Fantasy WIP (especially if you're writing high fantasy) and realize you've not included all the staples of the genre? (Isn't a hot-shot sharpshooting archer required today?)

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`The genre' dates from at least the Epic of Gilgamesh, which makes it 4,600 years old or so. Other than a hero and a quest there are no staples -- and authors have managed to do without even those.

High Fantasy is 50-70 years old, depending on how you count it, but its roots draw all the way back to Gilgamesh. You just need a hero, a good vs evil theme, fantastical symbolism, travel and character development. (Of these, only the good vs evil theme and the character development differentiate High Fantasy from Gilgamesh).

High Fantasy is a psychological journey through a moral landscape, portrayed as symbol. So if you have an ensemble cast then frequently, group members will represent moral and psychological traits of heroism -- often in complementary pairs: the mature and immature; logical and emotional; brave and fearful; knowledgeable and ignorant; compassionate and cruel; honest and dishonest; clever and slow; loyal and treacherous; conformists and individualists; etc... In addition to appearing as personality these traits can also be represented through group function; social background; appearance and props.

An 'archer' character typically represents quick-wittedness, precision, mental agility and clear-sightedness. These are critical heroic traits. Most heroes (other than the Hulk maybe) live by their wits. These traits can be represented through group function (like hunter, tracker, scout, thief, lookout, negotiator), social background (sailor; diplomat; courier; pilot; bard; stockman; acrobat; knife-thrower; pitcher/bowler; motorcyclist) or appearance & props (elf; horse; hawk; ferret; greyhound; arrow; spear; knife; rifle; boomerang; blowgun; bullwhip -- or anything that looks long-sighted, long-reaching, quick and preferably long and thin in shape). I once wrote a high fantasy where my 'archer' character was a knife-spirit.

I recall somewhere a study of American tribal legends which said that the 'core' mythic group for native Americans was a warrior, a hunter, a shaman and a a fool. The archer is the hunter of course: the eyes of the group, often its fingers, feet or mouth, but not usually its mind or heart.

'Archer' characters may tend toward laconicness, irony or cynicism because their far-sightedness gives them insights that they can't always share. By the same token, they're not usually the wisest or bravest in the group so their vision may make them secretly fearful, even desperate. They're frequently solitary or lonely characters by nature, difficult to understand. They're generally accurate in their vision and often loyal (because if the eyes betray the group, it's blind), but their vision can be blunted by fear or humiliation. Their quickness and lean resilience may hide an inner fragility and brittleness. Once wounded, an 'archer' character seldom heals well -- so they often avoid injury, though they generally embrace risk.

Hope that this helps.

In the Popul Vuh there aren't any archers, but they have blowguns.

And you are right, I don't remember any archery in the epic of Gilgamesh.

dclary said:

Great. My heroes are dim-witted.

:|

I KNEW IT!

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No, Deek.

They just like to get up close and personal.

None of this distance shooting crap....

Crom spits on archers.