Can symbols be used to denote foul language in dialog? For example, he said, "#$@&#%#*!"
If so, exactly which symbols are appropriate?
If so, exactly which symbols are appropriate?
Foul Language
- Thread starter whiterose
- Start date
- Status
I wouldn't use symbols. It would turn me off horribly and pull me out of the story. Symbols would only serve to make me consider for fifteen minutes what you were actually trying to say and why you didn't just say it. If it needs to be said, say it. If not, don't.
As a writer, I don't believe in foul language. No language is foul--it's just language. Of course you have to consider your audience, but in general, no language is bad. It's just a tool. Use it the wrong way and you break something. Use it in the right way and you build something.
As a writer, I don't believe in foul language. No language is foul--it's just language. Of course you have to consider your audience, but in general, no language is bad. It's just a tool. Use it the wrong way and you break something. Use it in the right way and you build something.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2005
- Messages
- 11,792
- Reaction score
- 4,698
- Location
- Wicked Little Town
- Website
- cathellisen.com
what Kct said. Plus I think it looks horribly amateurish.
Words is words - use them as they are needed.
Words is words - use them as they are needed.
If foul language is called for, my advice is that you use foul language. I shudder when I see symbols in its place.
I myself was concerned about this. I checked with my 12 year-old son and he assured me that he has come across foul language in the books that he has read which are targeted to his age group. If you are speaking of younger kids, I'm sure it would be different. I have yet to see foul language in young readers...but it has its place in YA.
I don't write for children, so my opinion may be slanted here. But IMO, I would still go with the advice above. If you can't write it, then leave it out. To me, it's either or--all in, or all out.
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2005
- Messages
- 11,792
- Reaction score
- 4,698
- Location
- Wicked Little Town
- Website
- cathellisen.com
Write the words. If your editor thinks it's too much she'll most likely work with you to find a better alternative.
Thanks for the replies so far.
But what if the foul language (I mean really foul) were uttered in another language or dialect? Translating to English would lose its effect.
To be more specific, I am writing a military memoir, and one can't escape foul language in the military. But some of my readers are as young as 12.
But what if the foul language (I mean really foul) were uttered in another language or dialect? Translating to English would lose its effect.
To be more specific, I am writing a military memoir, and one can't escape foul language in the military. But some of my readers are as young as 12.
In that case, you could probably get away with saying (writing) the word in the original language. Put it in italics the first time and simply let it be known that it's a 'bad word'. The reader wouldn't even have to know exactly what it means, probably.
"Shizen!" Deider said.
"Watch your language!" Marie said, jabbing a finger at him.
"Shizen!" Deider said.
"Watch your language!" Marie said, jabbing a finger at him.
Get creative. How about something like: When he found out he'd have to ship out in two days, he swore violently in German, slammed a hand against a nearby table.
I'd just make sure you know your target market. I mean, if you're writing for readers as young as 12, I'd suggest keeping the foul language to a minimum. Sure, they may know that people in the military swear. But do you need the actual words on every page? Probably not.
That's my thought--if they're too young to read the actual representation of the swear words, they're too young to see it hinted through cryptic use of punctuation. That's fine for cartoons, but in a book?
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2007
- Messages
- 6,449
- Reaction score
- 1,321
Euphemisms, asterisks, and the like are ridiculous. Either put the actual language used in, or leave it out. Yes, you can leave it out.
The sergeant woke us with a stream of obscenity. "Platoon forms up at 0500 hours!" was the end of his diatribe.
The sergeant woke us with a stream of obscenity. "Platoon forms up at 0500 hours!" was the end of his diatribe.
WARNING: PROFANITY BELOW
In my fiction, I try to use a bit of taste in selecting where to swear and where not to, but sometimes people fuck, they don't make love. Sometimes shit happens and it's no accident. Sometimes...well you get the idea.
Here's how I avoid the issue in my journalistic writing (unless I'm quoting Dick Chaney):
"X shouted several profanities during the city council meeting."
OR
"Mr. Mayor, you are a piece of (expletive)," said James Hoboton, the town drunk.
When I attend city govt. meetings, I sometimes feel like shouting profanities myself.
I imagine you could do something similar. I recently changed "they were fucking" to "he was inside her" simply because of considering the audience of the pub I was submitting to, though that's a separate issue that should arise after you write; I don't think you should censor your writing while you write it (it's a very bad habit).
In my fiction, I try to use a bit of taste in selecting where to swear and where not to, but sometimes people fuck, they don't make love. Sometimes shit happens and it's no accident. Sometimes...well you get the idea.
Here's how I avoid the issue in my journalistic writing (unless I'm quoting Dick Chaney):
"X shouted several profanities during the city council meeting."
OR
"Mr. Mayor, you are a piece of (expletive)," said James Hoboton, the town drunk.
When I attend city govt. meetings, I sometimes feel like shouting profanities myself.
I imagine you could do something similar. I recently changed "they were fucking" to "he was inside her" simply because of considering the audience of the pub I was submitting to, though that's a separate issue that should arise after you write; I don't think you should censor your writing while you write it (it's a very bad habit).
Last edited:
yeah go ahead and write the word. i think some of the books that are in the typical curriculum for highschool kids often have the f bomb in them. im pretty sure i remember laughing about it in 9th grade. i dont think society cares too much about written profanity these days. as a matter of fact, loading up a book with swear words might even help in the fight against illiteracy by provoking kids to read it 
Re
If a character has to cuss, then cuss damn it!
Don't use symbols. If you are writing for young readers, then make all attempts to avoid such language. But, if it can't be avoided, if its part of the story or lesson to be learned, then say it loud and say it proud.
If a character has to cuss, then cuss damn it!
Don't use symbols. If you are writing for young readers, then make all attempts to avoid such language. But, if it can't be avoided, if its part of the story or lesson to be learned, then say it loud and say it proud.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 43,746
- Reaction score
- 8,654
- Location
- Los Angeles
- Website
- www.amazon.com
No, you're not writing Sunday paper comic strips.
Either use the real words, or don't use profanity at all.
What about it?
Oh...you mean children don't know any swear words? Riiight.
Seriously. I bet any twelve year old knows more swear words than I do and I know a lot.
I mean...sheesh. It boggles my mind that anyone would think children have to be protected from swearing in books. Maybe their parents would object to them reading it but your first job as a writer is not to parent other people's children; it's to tell the story. If your characters swear, let them swear.
As for symbols. Please. I can't believe anyone would even consider that. It's like words such as 'frickin' or 'feckin' or 'fookin'. Just say the damn word, for fark's sake.
You know what it means. I know what it means. Just write it!
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2005
- Messages
- 23,708
- Reaction score
- 10,661
- Location
- In a world of my own making
- Website
- shadowferret.wordpress.com
Heck, my 8-year-old has heard it all before. He lives with me, after all.
As the others have said. Write it. Let the editor decide.
You can always curse in Yiddish. I've heard people say the foulest things on prime time television, but since it's in Yiddish, it's ok.
Of course, the only people who know how to curse in Yiddish are show business people, New Yorkers and Jews.
Of course, the only people who know how to curse in Yiddish are show business people, New Yorkers and Jews.
Using this stuff to denote profanity:
@#$%&
is a longstanding convention dating back to the 1920's or earlier. It's only ever been used in some comic books and many newsprint strips. The whole point of doing this is that those two mediums are generally not allowed to use the actual profanity (comic books can now adays, but newsprint is still vastly limited), yet still need to somehow suggest the profanity. And given the limitations of word balloons, that is the best they can do.
If you are doing an actual comic book or a newsprint comic strip, go ahead.
But I am under the impression that you are NOT writing for either a comic book or a newsprint comic strip. I am under the impresison you are writing for an actual book.
A book is an entirely different medium than comic books and newsprint comic strips. No book would ever use those symbols to denote profanity (unless the book was a hardbound compilation of old vintage comics or old vintage newspront comic strips). So the answer is that you CANNOT resort to using those typeset characters because it simply isn't done.
You can SUGGEST profanity via the conventions of the novel form in a way that neither comics or strips can. The richness of novel prose has so much more wiggle room for that sort of allusive suggestability than comics and strips. The skill of the writer comes into play here. So show us the range of your skillfullness.
@#$%&
is a longstanding convention dating back to the 1920's or earlier. It's only ever been used in some comic books and many newsprint strips. The whole point of doing this is that those two mediums are generally not allowed to use the actual profanity (comic books can now adays, but newsprint is still vastly limited), yet still need to somehow suggest the profanity. And given the limitations of word balloons, that is the best they can do.
If you are doing an actual comic book or a newsprint comic strip, go ahead.
But I am under the impression that you are NOT writing for either a comic book or a newsprint comic strip. I am under the impresison you are writing for an actual book.
A book is an entirely different medium than comic books and newsprint comic strips. No book would ever use those symbols to denote profanity (unless the book was a hardbound compilation of old vintage comics or old vintage newspront comic strips). So the answer is that you CANNOT resort to using those typeset characters because it simply isn't done.
You can SUGGEST profanity via the conventions of the novel form in a way that neither comics or strips can. The richness of novel prose has so much more wiggle room for that sort of allusive suggestability than comics and strips. The skill of the writer comes into play here. So show us the range of your skillfullness.
Hmm... I was always curious as to why the convention was in place.
And now I know.
But yeah. To voice my opinion with the majority here, just write it. If you're really that worried about it, then maybe you should reconsider your audience.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Messages
- 8,015
- Reaction score
- 3,138
- Location
- Junior Nation
- Website
- cynthia-bronco.blogspot.com
I did in my comic because Hagar said it was #%&*^$@#! fine if I wanted to do it.
In other prose, I'd use the correct spelling.
- Status