I just came to a few harsh realizations...

Upon thinking about working my way to being a comic creator for Marvel Comics, and the many projects I hope to publish under them, I came to a few realizations that pointed to working for them being a bad idea...

Realization 1: As many of you already now I'm a writer/artist much like many of the professional mangaka who have brought us Dragon Ball Z, Sailor-Moon, Inuyasha, YuYu Hakusho, Naruto, and many others including those in the Antarctic-Press department. Don't worry though I am aware there are manga titles done by a writer, and an artist like Tokyo Mew Mew, Beet The Vandal Buster, and Full Metal Panic, But I'm somewhat of a lone-wolf when doing the pencils, ink, and dialogue for comics which I'm pretty sure isn't how alot of western Comic industries operate thus which is why I don't see myself working for Marvel, DC or TopCow in the distant future...

The Second Realization is I thought of resurrecting The Final Four Horsemen Of Apocalypse The final choses for War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death) in a miniseries that involves my characters Alexander Krieg, and Luciami. But from what I understand that much like Marvel series HULK, and Secret Invasion It would have to follow a series that had been established.... And since that probably won't be the case with this idea... Well that's a problem...

Side Note: I seem to be a prolific creator who sets aside new ideas to be created, and developed at a later date...

MagicMan said:

The comic book industry is hard to crack.

Dave Sim published his own comic and it is still going today. I remember the discussion we had at Charlie's restaurant in Kitchener, everyone thought he was crazy, but we supported him, who knew.

John Byrne. I first met John when he was in university. Jim Starlin and I were checking out the wanna be artist tables at a convention. Jim was impressed with John's art and gave John a contact at Marvel. The rest is history.

Gene Day submitted a few pages unsolicited to Marvel. He got a letter in the mail asking if he would like to freelance on some pubs that were behind schedule. He went on to draw many pages of art for Marvel. This doesn't happen as frequently nowadays.





Get exposure at comic book conventions. Get a name in your area, then submit to local publishers. If you are good, you will get work. Once you have a dozen issues that sold respectable numbers, contact the big boys.

Smiles
Bob

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Yeah well that most likely occurred way before Marvel stopped accepting submissions from unpublished creators such as myself. Also I'm going to see if I can't go to Wizard World, and submit some of my stories to a publisher or two there, while getting a boat-load of questions answered, but I won't be able to participate in the artist alley.

dempsey said:

Barring all else, you could take it to the web. Web comics have gone on to print, and sometimes get picked up by larger companies. I've seen LFG Comics in my local comic shop.

And yeah, comics is a rough nut to crack. I'd love to write a graphic novel some day, but I realize at this moment that it'd merely languish in my drawer. God speed.

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I really don't see myself getting that lucky especially With the kind of web-comics that I have created.

Jason said:

I'd recommend PMing Axler on this topic. He has a wealth of knowledge on this subject and his resume backs that up.

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I'll look into doing that, because honestly I now have the urge to want to start that project, but first I have to finish up the main story arcs concerning Princess Of The Damned, and it's tie-in The Son Of War. As well as my current project Princess Of The Damned: Boogie Hunter.

wordmonkey said:

Axler is likely not to tell you how to break into the big two.

He's very much independent minded. So if that's your goal, I'd recommend Axler. The big two, see above.

It's ALL about the networking. And be nice to everyone. You never know who are might be talking to, either on line, or in person.

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I'll keep that in mind... Also this topic was spawned because I remembered how you told me that should make getting into Marvel and DC my ultimate goal which I plan on doing... There are a bunch of publishers after all who seek new unpublished writers, so I'm going to try them out first.

Jason said:

Axler does however HAVE industry experience. And he's the only one I know here with that experience, so he came to mind. And he's oft quoted as saying that breaking into the biz is a bit**.

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Oh, I'd have to agree with him on that... Because
I've submitted Princess Of The Damned thirty times, Nether Tales twice so far, High School Guardian twice, Dreamers Hearts once, and a RSOM, and Shadowline Heroine submission. All of which got rejected. But I now know that Princess Of The Damned, as I mentioned in my first thread is suited for Apocalyptic Fiction, but publishers for those are hard to come by.

JamieFord said:

Have you been to Comic-Con? It's a great place to network with independents--maybe you can get some freelance work to build your publishing creds. There's also a portfolio review.

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No, but as I said earlier in this thread I'm going to see if I can't go to Wizard World next month... And as I told dempsey, in the matter of getting my web-comics printed, and I'll tell you with the freelancing, I don't think I'll get lucky enough to get any freelance gigs...

Axler said:

There's nothing particularly eldritch or arcane about breaking into the "Big Two"...just be aware of the chances of working on a creator owned property with either Marvel or DC are hyper-microscopic.

Yeah, if you have the resources, go to all the big conventions and show your samples to art directors or leave packets with them containing business cards and other contact information.

If you live in the NYC area or are visiting, try to wrangle an appointment or two with editors. Couldn't hurt, might help.

Back in the olden days Marvel used to have summer intern program in their offices...I did one when I was 18. If they still do that, check into enrolling.

But yeah...as has been indicated...breaking into the field is a bitch.

I'm independently-minded only because I don't see much future in spending years struggling to break into the Big Two--all so you can work on some corporate-owned characters created by somebody else....just another transient artist or writer, a millionth in a series.

But to each his own.

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Actually surprisingly enough they still have it. And thankfully since it's in the summer, so I don't have to worry about it interfering with my plan for attending a junior college then an art institute. And I'm not going to "waste" my career there working on corporate owned characters, merely introducing my own into the Marvel, and DC universes. Much like in the concept I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, and the And In "Reasons Why These Concepts Won't Work" I want to showcase some of my characters working along side some of The "Corporate Characters." But that's only after I have my original works published, because I don't want to have people thinking these character came out of nowhere like Loeb's "Red Hulk," or "RULK" as he's known who appeared out of nowhere and Caused a bunch of senseless chaos I at least want to have their story arcs established like Alexander Krieg in The Son Of War and Luciami in Princess Of The Damned before doing this though... Also I have thoughts of submitting my latest concept Indestructible.

dempsey said:

Well, two things: one, keep writing, you can't improve by not pressing onward; and two, get an artist. Or pick up a How-To on drawing. Better, grab a copy of an anatomy book and draw from there.

I used to draw a lot when I was younger. I'm not any sort of an incredible artist, and I gave up on it long ago, but when I was trying, those How-To-Draw books really kicked my drawing skills up a few levels in a short time.

Practice, practice, practice

And as for comic conventions, there's ComicCon in San Diego, New York, there's Emerald City Comic Con, WonderCon, APE, others I'm probably forgetting, and each of these will have independent press there (as well as the big guys). Start working on your portfolio.

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I live in Texas just so you know, and at my current state of living, I can't afford to travel... So I'm going to attend some conventions here in Texas, and see what happens... As for getting anatomy books, my brother has a "Strength training Anatomy Book" I can use to work on drawing my anatomy. I also thought of hiring an artist for my series Princess Of The Damned: Hunt Of The Demoras so I can learn from their technique, as well as work with them, but sadly no artist will work for me, unless I can immediate pay them, and those that are patient in waiting for payment don't give me immediate results... So I'm at wits end because it's like I'm being told that these stories are to be done by me alone. Which is why I'm not much for asking for artists or co-writers... It's been proven to me to be pointless. And besides no artist would be caught dead working on my scripts because of how Cliche they are. It doesn't matter how you write the damn thing. If you have elements of demons, magic, angels, samurai, vampires no one will work with you. That's the kind of $%&@ I get fed from the messageboards of Tokyopop. And from what I've seen it's proven to be true, I'm surrounded by a bunch of shallow spineless saplings who are terrified to work on one God Damned demonic Fiction, which is why I'm giving up on people, and am going to do this $%#@ with my own hands, because as far as I'm concerned I'm supposed to be doing that anyway.( Sorry about all that, I got a bit stressed at the moment, because what I mentioned just irritates me.)

MagicMan said:

Rasun, with the popularity of Graphic Novels today, mainstream agents are taking them on and selling them. I saw a comic Graphic Novel announcement from Jennifer Jackson
on her blog http://arcaedia.livejournal.com/ Jim Butcher's new GN.

And Joe is a great guy who attends the NY comic con. He is open to receiving specific submissions, he told my artist employee to submit to x with this comment, at the comic-con, a few years ago. He did that and Joe offered him an assignment. He hesitated, then decided to go with a smaller publisher and do his own stories. Joe btw is Joe Quesada Editor-in-chief of Marvel.

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Uh MagicMan, you are aware that I am still in the geek state of comic-writing right? If not, now you know... To learn that you are acquainted with Joe Quesada is like "Wow it's a shame you won't be at Wizard World in Arlington Texas, I would love to shake you're hand." But yeah I hope to submit Nether Tales to a few publishers and have it published as a Graphic Novel. That I hope to submit alot of story arcs,(Many are on my web-comic sites) to publishers to be made into graphic Novels...

Wolvel said:

Problem with your big two plan. If you were to introduce your characters beside theirs they would claim ownership since you were paid to do work for them so they paid for the characters.

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SPIT! I knew it! I friggen knew that's what would come to pass. Because honestly with the kind of plans I have for my characters, I really don't want them tied down to a single universe. ( Well some of them anyway) So then if I submit Son Of War or Indestructible to them that means Alexander and The Aggressor would become Marvel property. Oh crap with the way I'm currently writing the first Son Of War Saga that ownership deal also includes Garlon The Red Guardian! I can't allow that... Well actually I could, but what would become of my Armageddon meta-series consisting of Doomsday Invasion, Disturbed Leader, Doomsday Dance? I wouldn't be able to publish those series since my work would be published by multiple publishers, and that meta-series is a crossover consisting of my current works that once again revolves Luciami defying her destiny as The Anti-Christ. I guess I wouldn't be able to finish what I started if I went and submitted Son Of War and Indestructible to Marvel, Nether Tales to Slave Labor, and Princess Of The Damned to publisher of Apocalyptic Fiction.

MagicMan said:

I think you missed my point, you can meet Joe or other industry people at the large conventions, walk right up and display your portfolio or discuss your great story ideas. Thats why they are there, to find the hidden gems.

If they think you have promise, they will give you the secret backdoor to the editor's desk right at the convention.

Smiles
Bib

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You're right I did miss your point, I was so caught up in the fact that you were acquainted with Quesada that I just geeked out... But if what you say is true, then maybe I might have a decent shot at this. I really don't want to go off the deep end and say that "I'm a shoe-in to getting into Marvel this way" because I'm not... I know I have a snow-ball's chance in getting in because if alot of messageboarders don't like my work who's to say they will? Humans as I've come to learn have certain taste in story telling, that if you've seen my webcomics, I don't think I can offer the majority of what readers look for in a story, but hey I never know... Marvel may see something in one of my works after all, but I have to try it first....

Axler said:

You beat me to that one.

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You were going to tell me about Marvel owning my characters too?! O.O Wow I really didn't look before I leaped with this one. Because so far, only three (well actually seven) original characters would make an appearance in this concept of mine that reconstitutes The Horsemen Of Apocalypse. And they are Cole, Alexander Krieg, Luciami, and my original concepts for War, Death, Famine, and Pestilence. You see the story I have so far is this: After Alexander goes to Iraq and settles a misunderstanding with a demon hunter named Garlon, he encounters a dimensional demon named Cole who traveled to the Earth-616 dimension to find Apocalypse, and have him reassemble His Horsemen for the purpose of bringing about the Apocalypse in Luciami and Krieg's dimension seeing as how Luciami is unwilling to fulfill her destiny. Luciami then seeks the aid of The actual Apocalyptic Horsemen(Thus being my concepts) in order to restore Order to her dimension since Armageddon isn't to occur there yet.

Axler said:

First and foremost, neither Marvel or DC are the slightest bit interested in new characters or concepts...between them, they have 100 years worth of both to exploit for another 100 years.

The Big Two may make an exception here and there for Alan Moore or Frank Miller, but with how the Siegel/Shuster suit turned out, neither company is really interested in publishing anything they don't have locked-down sole ownership deal.

And yes...if you introduce your own characters into a Marvel or DC title, they become Marvel and DC properties.

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You make it sound like a sucky deal to undergo of which it might as well be... But with that said then if I were to submit my latest concept Indestructible to them chances are I might get in, or sued because The protagonist, The Aggressor is basically like an armored Hulk. Like A-bomb his skin is metallic, but it gets harder through aggravation, as The Aggressor's strength also increases. And There's also Garlon The Red Guardian, who's like a Red Demonic Hulk, as his strength increases, as hellish flames appear on his body through aggravation. But unlike The Hulk The Aggressor, and Garlon can change from human form at will, and not just through being angered. My point is through their similarities to the Hulk I could most likely get accepted or sued....

Also there's still the matter of my concept that I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, and in detail in the 17th post. In developing it a little more I made it the prequel to another story arc I developed that will be a tribute series to alot of the influences of Princess Of The Damned. I might wind up self publishing that, or not even getting to create it seeing as how Marvel and DC have it hammered down that artists and writers can only work on their corporate characters...

idontknow said:

Do you think that some people are born better artists/cartoonists than others? Or is it simply practice and refining your skill?

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I'm going to say both because some people have a knack for drawing, but still seek to improve in order to expand on many styles of drawing. In my case I lack the patience needed to put out the exact image that resides in my head.

Wolvel said:

Why do you think back in the early 90's Todd McFarlane, Rob Liefeld, And Jim Lee left to form Image comics. Because they wanted to do their own creations that they would sole own.

I have created over five hundred characters of my own but have not submitted to the big two because I have to much in them just to give them away.

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Oh, and I probably don't care about my characters seeing as how I wish to have them be shown in the Marvel and DC universes... Well actually that would probably be true on account They allow artists very little creative freedom or control over their own creations. And I'll be damned if Luciami, Alexander Krieg, Garlon, or the Aggressor are taken, and mischaracterized by a writer who doesn't know them as well as I. And to know these characters well is to know me inside and out because Each one is a fictional personification of me as a person. And to have that ruined by a different writer who doesn't understand their purpose as characters is something I won't tolerate. So most likely I should probably start with Image or perhaps a smaller publisher like Slave Labor Graphics.

But not those two after all I plan on making a tribute series to all the influences of Princess Of The Damned after I publish it, and having Luciami locked in as a permanent marvel character and then to see her used or rather seeing her story extended by a different writer again is something I won't stand for... And after reading your post I thought of submitting Indestructible to Image Comics because I feel the Aggressor will, or may fit well there instead of battling Marvel villains for the rest of his fictional existence... (Wait what am I saying?)