Morality in Ancient Sparta

I'm no historian. I started writing my novel about a young woman in ancient Sparta because the place/era intrigued me in all sorts of ways. I can't help but come to the conclusion sometimes that I'm in way over my head. Fortunately, I've always finished every story that I've started, including two novel-length pieces, and I'm not about to give up on this one.

Right now I have a question that I can't really find the answer to, and I was hoping your collective thoughts and wisdom might help.

I've just finished a scene that is crucial to my story, because it sets the tone for the main romantic relationship in the book and it illustrates key character traits that will play out for the length of the story. It also brings my two characters to a deeper level of intimacy.

In it, my MC Melaina sees her love interest for the first time in several weeks after he's been away at his first army assignment. As the scene plays out, we find something is bothering him greatly, though he tries to act like nothing is wrong. Eventually Melaina is able to tease it out of him and finds out that his first assignment was less than consistent with his idealized expectation of "glory on the battlefield". He was assigned to kill an unarmed, sleeping Helot who was apparently instrumental in organizing a Helot revolt, as well as kill the Helot's eight year old son. Now, he performs this act without hesitation, so it's not that he couldn't do it. The issue is, it troubles him. Melaina offers him some encouragement and helps ease his conscience, using her father's experiences as an illustration, and using the angle of protecting Sparta.

I offered this scene to my critique group, and the women and one man who read this scene liked it, but there was one male with former military experience who read it and disagreed with the entire idea that Alexandros, a trained warrior (though novice) in Sparta's army could have trouble killing anyone - including children or babies - if they were the enemy. His take was that there was a different mind-set in the ancient world and especially Sparta in general, and that the enemy was the enemy and needed to be eliminated and that is that.

My take on it is that yes, the Spartans were killing machines, but that didn't mean they didn't have consciences. And I have drawn my character Alexandros in such a way that physically he is the ultimate warrior, and mentally he strives for that as well, but it is in his nature to be a little more sensitive about things. I am contrasting him with Melaina's hardened warrior father. This is important to how the story arc plays out further down the line.

Yes, the Spartans were a strong, militaristic society, and individual needs/desires were secondary to the needs of the state. But they also had an extremely strong code of honor, and were noted by non-Spartans to behave honorably as well. And there are examples of this that I can cite, though I won't do this here right now. Of course, it is also known that the Spartans laid weak babies out on the mountainside to die, and murdered Helot slaves because they were too strong or handsome or a "threat", and that Spartan mothers rejoiced when their sons were killed fighting courageously for Sparta in battle.

I don't see this same issue in writing of, say, ancient Rome where it appears that there are no preconceived notions of their humanity being so different from ours. But Sparta is rife with notions of these supreme killing machines, and short on evidence of how individuals coped within the society.

I'm concerned about this, because my entire story hinges on the idea of doing the "right thing" in terms of what society asks of you, even though it might be personally difficult or even agonizing for an individual to do so, and what that effect is on that person.

This is not the case with all of my characters, but of course it is for two of the main ones, because therein lies the conflict/tension that propels the story. Now, saying that, I DO emphasize the Spartan ideals of strength and selflessness and courage and self-sacrifice, and the glory of dying for Sparta etc. etc. - Some of my characters illustrate these values and live these values and others strive desperately for them. And some fail miserably.

So, I'm finally getting to my main question. Does my take on these Spartans fly?

c.e.

I appreciate your prompt replies, and I will respond in more detail when I think about things a bit more and possibly have more discussion to address.

But I wanted to make something clear that may not have been (and it may not change your opinions anyway) - it was not the killing of the rebel leader that bothers Alexandros, it was killing the young boy while the mother watched.

Inarticulate Babbler said:

Sparta prided themselves not only as warriors (first and foremost) but also as descendants of Heracles. Since they were taken from their mothers as a child, beaten, forced to steal food and to murder someone before they could be considered a man, you have to be very careful. I don't know if societally they would feel guilt, and it could be shown as a weekness. Honor and guilt are two very different things.

However, honor may be the mantle you can rest on. If he feels his honor was damaged by murdering his victim instead of facing him with bravery. He may feel wrong about killing the child if the child wasn't yet of age to begin training--but eight is an age he would consider as old enough to defend himself. Yeah, in my opinion, his guilt has to hinge on his sense of honor (how he killed his opponent) instead of mercy or sympathy. You chose a people who were bred to lack those emotions, so have a care with protecting the culture they created. Also, you may want to look into Lycurgis (the founder of Sparta) for insight.

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Yes, Inarticulate Babbler - that's exactly how I approach this scene - in terms of honor (his own sense of it). Melaina wants him to tell her of his exploits, and she points out his battle scars, and that sets off the discussion, because he tells her firmly that those aren't 'battle scars'.

waylander said:

Pardon my interuption. but this is Sparta we're talking about.
I was under the impression that the Spartans married only for procreation and their romantic relationships were principally homosexual, making the premise of this story somewhat unlikely. Am I misremembering?

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There's a lot of scholarly discussion about the prevalence of homosexuality in Sparta, and very differing views on it. The bottom line is that they needed procreation to sustain the army, and marriage was valued quite highly, and Lycurgus went through great lengths in fashioning Sparta's laws to optimize this - i.e. nudity at dances and exercise was meant to stir passions and lead to marriage between the sexes, and keeping the men at the barracks until the age of thirty was meant in part to increase their lust for their wives and maintain their desire so that procreation was increased. So I'm fully confident that my premise is absolutely not unlikely. Men who did not marry and therefore did not contribute children to Sparta's army were held in less regard, considered outcasts in a way.

tehuti88 said:

After reading the more educated replies, and admitting I know nothing of ancient Sparta:

Feeling troubled may be an un-Spartan thing to do, but is that reason enough for him not to feel troubled? Even in the strictest societies there are not only people who don't fit the standards in every single way, but who can hide this very well. Consider male and female roles in various societies. People may fit into their places seemingly perfectly, but how do we really know what they're thinking/feeling INSIDE? Even every member of an army is an individual. Unless one is brainwashed, they never lose that. They might be able to hide it, and deny it, but their individuality is still there. Heck, maybe this character could be more troubled by the fact that he's troubled in the first place when he knows he shouldn't be!

I think it boils down to, which is more important to you the writer--the fact that the character is a SPARTAN and must act like one, or the fact that he is an INDIVIDUAL and might have certain thoughts or feelings that are un-Spartan? Because even those most programmed to fit into certain roles won't always agree with every little detail of that role. It might not even be a matter of "Spartan first, individual second"--we can't always control our reactions to things, even through training.

The character's actions might be un-Spartan but he is an individual Spartan, and sometimes, people just do not fit neatly into their roles. Thus comes conflict, and perhaps plot. And someone who isn't a stereotyped character, doing everything that's expected of them.

Remember, I'm pretty naive on all this. If it's authenticity to the role of a Spartan that you truly seek, then the other replies here look very informative.

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Yes, yes, yes, tehuti88 - you have boiled down my wordy question to its essence. Absolutely. Thank you for that.

The issue is, I already know my female MC is this way, because that leads to much of the plot. I wanted her love interest/eventual husband to have a touch of that as well, hence they're a good match for each other and it gives my MC the ability to do some things crucial to my plot. I already have other prominent characters as your typical Spartans - Melaina's parents and brother, for instance. But I need this individuality for certain things to happen in the story.

The problem is, I don't want to turn readers off, hence my concern with this scene. Interestingly enough, the women who have read this scene like it very much. I'm getting resistance from men, and especially men familiar with the military. One of the people (female) in my critique pointed to the Nazis as an example of boys who were raised to think a certain way and perform certain actions, but who had psychological repercussions when asked to perform heinous acts as grown soldiers. So I've been torn about this, and I really want to do the right thing (both for my story, and to reflect Sparta in a realistic manner).

Wow, I'm finding the male/female divide on this question to be absolutely fascinating. And I so appreciate your time and thoughts.

A couple of quick comments, since I've got two young kids with me right now and somehow they think I should be Mom, not an AW poster.

To reiterate - My warrior does not hesitate at all to follow his orders. By all accounts from his peers, he is like them. It's only after the fact, when he is exhausted and steals time away from his unit to see Melaina, that he allows a crack in his warrior persona to show and confesses that the act troubled him. And I'm careful to show that hardened extreme in some of the other main characters. Just not THIS character, at least not as a brand new soldier.

I don't quite agree that romance was not part of the warrior's life. In my view the Spartans had quite a romantic view of death on the battlefield for Sparta's glory and strength.

And here is an excerpt from Plutarch regarding marriage in Sparta:

There were also these incentives to marry. I mean the processions of girls and nudity, and the competitions in view of the young men, who were attracted by a compulsion not of an intellectual type, but a sexual one.

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And a bit later he says of marriage:

While spending the days with his contemporaries, and going to sleep with them, he could cautiously visit his bride in secret, embarrassed and fearful in case someone in the house might notice him. His bride at the same time was scheming and helping to plan how they might meet each other unobserved at a suitable time. They did this not just for a short period, but for long enough that some might even have children before they saw their wives in the day. Such intercourse was not only an exercise in self-control and moderation, but also meant that partners were fertile physically, always fresh for love, and ready for intercourse rather than being satiated and impotent from unlimited sexual activity. Moreover, some lingering spark of desire and affection always remained in both.

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The above is quoting Plutarch on page 41 of Spartan Women by Sarah B. Pomeroy.

Well, I've taken some time to process your comments and mull on the issue, and I wanted to thank you all for helping me with this. I not only received some great comments here, but a few people PM'd me with their thoughts as well, and this discussion has helped me very much.

JoNightshade - Yes, there were many brutal aspects of life in ancient Sparta, and I do not gloss over those in my story. I do think that aspect is one that fascinates people about Spartan culture, and of course it shaped the people there in important ways. But as you said, there is still room for individuals. Thank you.

Memnon624 - Your outlook is very similar to my beta/military man, and I know you've immersed yourself in research for your own novels in the ancient world, so I absolutely appreciate what you're saying. Unfortunately I've already used the "bastard son of a Helot/Spartan relationship" for another subplot in my story, so that idea is out here. What your comments have done is make me think very hard about how my warrior's individuality is portrayed, and perhaps prompt me to 'up the ante' a bit in terms of the specific situation which would trouble him. Thank you.

Doogs - I know from your own work that I've read that you do like to delve into the psyche/emotion/struggles of your characters. These issues are extremely complex, yet entirely fascinating. I appreciate your measured response here, and I agree with you.

Inarticulate Babbler - Thanks so much for your comments and suggestions. Your idea of using honor is an excellent twist on how Alexandros could feel troubled and still be "Spartan" in his behavior. I have done that subtly as the scene stands, but it might help to strengthen that angle a bit.

tehuti88 - Your comment was very encouraging to me, and is exactly what I was thinking when I wrote the scene. Thank you.

Clio - Great comments, thank you. I've already written two scenes which were not easy - one describing the ritual flagellation that occurred at the feast of Artemis Orthia, and there are many more to come. It must be done, even if distasteful, in the name of realism.

MagicMan - Your point about human nature and the will of mankind is so true. Thank you for your help.

pdr - I am trying to be careful, and I am trying to give my readers Sparta to the best of my ability while avoiding like the plague any cheap detours for the sake of melodrama. And I'll watch myself with the romance, I promise! Thank you.

girlyswot - Thank you for your eloquent and insightful PM. Very helpful. (As usual.)

So with these comments, as well as a couple of wonderful PMs from two other historical fiction authors, and the insights of my writing group, I've been able to come to some conclusions.

One member of my writing group (Dolores Haze here at AW) said, "My personal take on it (with a degree in history) is that although it IS a mistake to assign our modern values to ancient peoples, it is also equally problematic to consider them as a completely alien species. The truth of the matter probably lies somewhere between these two goal posts."

How true. The conundrum is finding where between these two goal posts. I will take much care to not let my own modern Judeo-Christian perspective take over my story, and the more hard-lined military views here have fine tuned my awareness of this possible problem. Yet I do recognize that in some sense, maybe even the greatest sense, man is man is man, even while we as individuals are unique. And somewhere in there lies my story. It's a constant balancing act.

Thanks again.

c.e.