Epilogue or No?

Just because I'm contrary-- what's wrong with ending a novel on a down note? The noir genre is almost required to end on a not-happy ending.

If the book is dark, then a happy ever after ending is going to feel like a piece of bubble gum stuck on the end (like getting it on your butt...)

I prefer there at least be hope for happy later, but that's not a requirement. There are plenty of stories that don't provide even that. It's what the story requires, not what warps up nicely with a pink bow and a smiley face.

Usually I save epilogues for tying up loose threads or showing the reader (not the MC) how they're really NOT tied up, thus setting up the potential for a sequel.

I agree with the PP that you shouldn't force your story to have a happy ending if it just doesn't. And if you're using the epilogue just to show that the MC really did change, to me that's sort of cheating -- if the point of the story is how the MC changed, then you need to show it in the story and not tack it on at the end as an afterthought, if that makes any sense.

As for good epilogues that I've read...I can't really think of any. Maybe LOTR?

-- Marcy

Dark endings aren't necessarily bad, as long as you've resolved the book's issues in a way that readers will be happy with. Is your ending satisfying from a reader's perspective, or do they want more? And by that, I mean want more to understand or feel the book was worth their time, not wanting more because they didn't want to he story to end.

It's impossile to say without reading the book if the ending works as is or not You'd have to ask people you trust to read it and see what they say. If those beta readers are left hanging and they really want to know if the protag changed or not, then you might want to incorporate that somehow, either in a final scene or an epilogue. If they're fine with how it ends, then leave it as is.

Here's another recent thread on the prologue/epilogue question.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115584&highlight=Epilogues

I ended the first book of my Draconia series with an epilogue. To set the tone for the next book. (Even if I don't get to publish the second book, it still gives the book a satisfyingly ominous ending.)

The book proper ends with the hope the the Humans and the dragons of that world would prosper together. Then, the epilogue shows their common enemy, who has only been mentioned throughout the book until this point, beginning to plan to disrupt the peace that the protagonists hope for.

If your book is a big dark terror, why do you think you want to end it on a more upbeat note? How is that ending more satisfying?

If your book is dark overall, I think it's perfectly fine to leave out the happy-ever-after epilogue. What I desire much more in books of that nature is an ending that - while perhaps dark - leaves me open to imagine that the character DID go on to a better life. Or not? We don't know. Ambiguous is fine. I guess what I'm saying is, you can leave us a the bottom of the pit, but make sure we've also seen that there's a ladder out.

On the other hand, I think there are some reasons for epilogues... and yes, I have one. Sigh. I wasn't going to tack one on the end of my story, but unfortunately the way the major storyline ends, you don't know if one of the major characters is dead or alive. Since there's not going to be any sequel, I thought that would be pretty darn irritating for the reader, so I added the epilogue.

Makai_Lightning said:

The real reason I thought to add something on was because I'm not sure the ending will be satisfying enough as is, just because from comments I already received, I got that people felt like my MC needed to redeem himself. He sort of does, but if at the end he regressed a bit I wasn't possitive it was enough. I know everything works out to an extent, but my readers don't know the whole deal, and tend to be more annoyed with my MC than me. It also felt like the ending as is doesn't particularly stand out from the rest, since I feel like the ending should represent a change. As is, it does, but it's not quite as conclusive since it only says things may change, or they could be exactly as they always were.

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I think you answered yourself. Write the epilogue. There is always time to scrap it.

Sounds like your instincts are saying you need more, so go for it Since you're also unsure about an epilogue, maybe a full-on epilogue isn't the way to go either. Perhaps a new scene or a tweak to the final scene now would work better. I'd suggest just writing a few things and seeing how you feel about them. Maybe try an epilogue, revise the final scene, add one more scene. I bet the right choice will be obvious to you and will just feel right.

Go ahead and write it, then try it out on some betas. Personally, I much prefer epilogues to prologues -- once I know and love the characters, I'm happy to read a little bit more about them.

However, the epilogue must not feel tacked on or discordant in tone, and I think they're hard to hit just right. Rowling took a big swing at one for Book 7 of the Harry Potter series. Well, she pretty much had to -- we needed to see the world renewed after the end of the war. However, I think she did only a middling job of it.

I just write epilogues when I feel I need them. That's the only criterion for me.

I might misuse the epilogue in a way since for me, I use it more as a sort of denouement (sic??) than as a "Five/ten/fifty years later..." sort of thing. I just find that kind of tacky in most cases, to be told what happened much later. IMO that should be saved for a different story; and if there's not enough there to make a different story, then don't bother telling it. I don't see the point in knowing what happens to the characters years later unless there's going to be a story made out of it, because that sort of epilogue is ANOTHER story and not THIS one. But that's just me, and I'm sure there MUST be exceptions, I just can't think of them right now.

Anyway...

What makes a good epilogue?

I already gave some explaining above. Basically, the necessity of an epilogue is the main thing that makes it good.

When do you think it's good to use one?

I think I explained this okay enough already, so I won't repeat myself.

What reasons have you written one for?

Also see the above. I usually just use them to wrap up the loose ends and show the direction the characters seem to be headed in now, not to flat-out tell what happened to them much later (after the scope of the story).

What's the most effective epilogue you've seen?

I honestly can't say. I don't read much fiction anymore, and much of it doesn't seem to use epilogues. When I think about it, it's more like I just don't remember. I guess the best epilogues are those that blend into the rest of the story so well that I wouldn't recall them standing out!

Makai_Lightning said:

So I was wondering what people considered a good epilogue. Mine's going to be short and just a quick scene; it certainly wouldn't outline everything that happens afterward. At this point I also wasn't sure if it would necessarily add to the story. It just seemed like since the whole book has a dark tenor and my MC seems to be attepmting somehow escape that (and failing,) and it seems like a little happy afterward would add a little more necessary resolution.

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Regarding your own situation, I really think it's unwise to add the epilogue just to end the story on a "happier" note. If the entire story is somber and dark, then to add a happier epilogue kind of ruins that impression. Plus, if that's the ONLY reason why you're adding it, it seems rather weak. It should honestly contribute to the story. If the story is dark and kind of bleak, then tacking on a happy epilogue to show the reader that it didn't turn out quite so bad much further down the line doesn't seem like a good idea, since that's in the future and not part of THIS story. It seems kind of like reader wish fulfillment, the reason why people write fanfics of their favorite stories, because they didn't like how the writer ended things.

That's just my opinion though, and it's your epilogue to do with as you wish. If you think it works, then that's the main thing.

Run it past some beta readers then offer the epilogue and see what they think.

At some point an editor should tell you what works best.

I had a downer, but open-ended ending on a book, and my editor quite rightly asked for a better resolution.

I'd used the ending of From Russia With Love as inspiration--the BOOK not the film. The book was quite different on the ending.

She also pointed out that one can have an epilogue so long as there is a prologue, but I'm not so sure of that.

Instead of an epilogue, I started calling it an "Afterword" and no one seems to mind.

"Rocks fall. Everyone dies."

If you can beat this AND it works for the story--go for it!

I'm not entirely fond of epilogues, but then again I'm not fond of prologues and I've already broken that rule.

Heres one example in movies that is essentially an "epilogue," where my opinion is torn:

In Artificial Intelligence, Spielburg's ending takes David far into the future, where advanced A.I.s probe his brain and recreate his mother and his home for one day. Well, I get the feeling Kubrick would have left him under the ocean praying to the faerie god mother forever.

But I thought the "epilogue" made the movie complete.

A.I. is pretty obviously a version of the children's story Pinocchio, and in the scene at the end of the movie, David cries (something he isn't programmed to do) and dreams (something he sure as hell isn't programmed to do).

Thus, David becomes a real boy, just like Pinocchio. His mother's love makes him real, and I think that's a much more important message than "the weight of the world crushed a little A.I. boy who couldn't cope with human existence."

So I guess the importance of the bit tacked on at the end depends on what it says about the rest of the story; does it change the perception of the reader in a satisfying way? If so, I don't see why you should hold back on it. Though, I might just renumber the chapters (since I know as a reader I tend to avoid the "logues").

I had no intention of writing an epilogue, but changed my mind at the end. The last chapter ended with something of a cliffhanger, and I wanted to make it clear that the MC made good on his intention some time later. It wasn't a happily ever after (because I can't do those) but it was a better ending. And my betas seemed to think it was necessary. Write it if you feel it's the thing to do. You can always cut it later.

I have a very short prologue and epilogue to set up a frame. They're really not part of the "story", but they're also quite short. What are they there for? To give some meaning to the fact that the story has a slightly mythic/epic feel. The prologue introduces "the old man" who is a bard, who says that he's about to tell a tale. Then I launch into my story proper. Then we return for a page or two with him saying that he's done telling the story--and hinting that he is one of the characters in his own tale, which he is.

When I send it out to agents with queries, I won't send the prologue, obviously. Only if/when (crossing the figners for "when" instead of "if") I get a request for a full will the agents see the prologue and epilogue.

I think prologues can almost always be woven into the main body of narrative. They tend to be infodumps, and the author thinks they absolutely have to get this information upfront or the reader won't understand what's happening.

They are normally wrong! Nothing wrong with finding out as you go along. It is the essence of tension.

As for epilogues, I think they are much more acceptable than prologues. If you have lots of loose ends to tie up, as long as the major ends are "shown" in the main narrative, it is ok to "tell" us about the minor ones in a summary epilogue. Otherwise the ending of the book would go on forever.

To me, an epilogue is a "winding down" moment in the story. Sometimes they're needed, other times they aren't. I think if such a winding down is needed, then go for it. They're especially useful if the book has an unhappy ending with a planned sequel. It's a way to show the rage or sadness of the characters while the tragedy is still fresh on their (and the reader's) minds.