How do I put this sentence together?

euclid · Oct 2, 2008

Help me choose one of these:

Sigmund, the doorman – and his counterpart, Siegfried, the night watchman – were responsible for ensuring that every person entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

or

Sigmund, the doorman – and his counterpart, Siegfried, the night watchman – was responsible for ensuring that every person entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

or

Sigmund, the doorman, and his counterpart -- Siegfried, the night watchman -- was responsible for ensuring...

or

Sigmund, the doorman, and his counterpart -- Siegfried, the night watchman -- were responsible for ensuring...

or maybe with commas instead of the dashes.

Ms Hollands · Oct 2, 2008

Erm....I choose:

Sigmund, the doorman, and his counterpart, Siegfried, the night watchman, were responsible for ensuring that every person entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

So yes, your thoughts on commas instead of dashes (and I *love* dashes) are inline with what I'm thinking. And "they were", so definitely "were".

Bufty · Oct 2, 2008

Just me.

Sigmund the doorman, and Siegfried the nightwatchman, were responsible for ensuring every person entering or leaving the building signed the daily log.

IceCreamEmpress · Oct 2, 2008

Or

Sigmund the doorman (and his counterpart Siegfried the night watchman) were responsible...

GLAZE_by_KyrstinMc · Oct 2, 2008

Sigmund, the doorman – and his counterpart, Siegfried, the night watchman – were responsible for ensuring that every person entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

Bufty · Oct 2, 2008

That comma after Sigmund does not make it crystal clear he is the doorman.

Alpha Echo · Oct 2, 2008

Sigmund the doorman and Siegfried the nightwatchman, were responsible for ensuring every person entering or leaving the building signed the daily log.

Ms Hollands · Oct 2, 2008

Actually, I've changed my mind: I don't think you need any commas or dashes in the sentence at all.

euclid · Oct 2, 2008

No commas?

April Hollands said:
Actually, I've changed my mind: I don't think you need any commas or dashes in the sentence at all.

You mean:

Sigmund the doorman and his counterpart Siegfried the night watchman were responsible for ensuring that everyone entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

Thats good cos Ive only got a few commas (and apostrophes) left in my punctuation tray.

Ms Hollands · Oct 2, 2008

Actually, as a female, it's my prerogative to change my mind, so now I'm thinking that sentence is just too long not to use a couple of commas in. Keep the apostrophes for a rainy day: they can come in handy.

Sigmund the doorman and his counterpart, Siegfried the night watchman, were responsible for ensuring that everyone entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

To be honest, I had been looking at the sentence above my last post, which was a cut-down version of the original.

smoothseas · Oct 2, 2008

or maybe...

Every one, when entering or leaving the building was required to sign the daily log. The doorman, Sigmund, and Siegfried, the night watchman, made sure that they did.

FennelGiraffe · Oct 2, 2008

It depends on whether 'the doorman' and 'the nightwatchman' are restrictive or nonrestrictive phrases, something impossible to determine out of context. If they're restrictive:

Sigmund the doorman and his counterpart, Siegfried the night watchman, were responsible for ensuring that everyone entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

If they're nonrestrictive, you have one holy mess that's better off rewritten.

Sigmund and Siegfried, the doorman and the night watchman, were responsible for ensuring that everyone entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

Sigmund, the doorman, was responsible for ensuring that everyone entering and leaving the building signed the daily log. Siegfried, the night watchman, took over that duty after hours.

willfulone · Oct 2, 2008

Example numero uno in your op.

StephanieFox · Oct 2, 2008

1) commas

2) were

euclid · Oct 3, 2008

FennelGiraffe said:
It depends on whether 'the doorman' and 'the nightwatchman' are restrictive or nonrestrictive phrases, something impossible to determine out of context. If they're restrictive:
Sigmund the doorman and his counterpart, Siegfried the night watchman, were responsible for ensuring that everyone entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

If they're nonrestrictive, you have one holy mess that's better off rewritten.
Sigmund and Siegfried, the doorman and the night watchman, were responsible for ensuring that everyone entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

Sigmund, the doorman, was responsible for ensuring that everyone entering and leaving the building signed the daily log. Siegfried, the night watchman, took over that duty after hours.

I looked this up (again). I find this concept difficult, and difficult to spot. I think the situation is as follows:

"Sigmund the doorman" is restrictive. I think this is the case because (a) he is the only Sigmund in the book and (b) he has been introduced to the reader previously.

The subclause about the night watchman introduces a new character, and so I think "his counterpart, Siegfried, the night watchman" is non-restrictive.

Having written the above, now I'm not so sure. Maybe "Siegfried the night watchman" should be a restrictive phrase. There is only one Siegfried in the book.

Help!

euclid · Oct 3, 2008

I agree

willfulone said:
Example numero uno in your op.

I think I agree with you, but I need to take out one comma: "Sigmund the doorman" not "Sigmund, the doorman"

veronie · Oct 4, 2008

Sigmund, the doorman, and his counterpart, Siegfried, the night watchman, were responsible for ensuring that every person entering and leaving the building signed the daily log.

This is correct, but looks pretty bad because of all the commas. I'd say rework the sentence.

Judg · Oct 4, 2008

IceCreamEmpress said:
Or

Sigmund the doorman (and his counterpart Siegfried the night watchman) were responsible...

No, this would not be correct. Something in parentheses should not affect the person of the verb, as it's in parentheses precisely to keep it out of the flow of the sentence and to show that it's an aside.

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euclid

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Ms Hollands

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Bufty

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IceCreamEmpress

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GLAZE_by_KyrstinMc

Bufty

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Alpha Echo

I should be writing.

Ms Hollands

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euclid

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Ms Hollands

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smoothseas

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FennelGiraffe

It's green they say

willfulone

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StephanieFox

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euclid

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euclid

Where did I put me specs?

veronie

practical experience, FTW

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon