Overdevelopment of the Monomyth

Status
Not open for further replies.

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
20,006
Reaction score
5,353
Location
Going shopping with Soccer Mom and Bubastes for fu
Damn damn damn. As a classicist and devotee' of Campbell's Hero With A Thousand Faces, I intentionally developed my Asphodel series using the hero's journey as a plot signpost for the story.

Signpost for me. I don't have a chapter entitled "The magic flight."

At any rate, not too long ago I scrapped the last book and half to change the path of the MC. At the moment, I am working on the final *eighth* book of the series (all contracted) and I've run into a problem. A big one. Keep in mind that the third book comes out in a month so nothing in those three books can be changed at this point. My heroine has successfully managed all of the milestones of the journey until now.

She has not lost her ego. I can't get rid of the damned thing! This heroine is not your stereotypical fantasy heroine by a long shot. I've given her such a huge supporting cast and way too many resources so that now I can't take her ego away from her without destroying a good portion of what I have done (and already with the publisher). I'm not even talking about magic, I'm talking about her socio-political influence and the allies she's created over the last--what? 3/4 of a million words!

I've overdeveloped the goshdarn thing.

My hope was that by submersing the monomyth within the boundaries of a laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge epic it would remain as a psychological guide for the reader and keep them familiar enough with the earmarks of the journey to accept the liberties I took with traditional epic fantasy writing and characters. I'm terribly afraid I've done such a thorough job of that that I can't get the character to the actual verge of an apotheosis.

So after all that build up, here's my question--does this mean I have to kill off most of my supporting cast in order to nudge my MC back along the hero's journey? Or am I overlooking something in favor of tearing my own hair out? Any thoughts?
 

dirtsider

Not so new, really
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
2,257
Reaction score
644
Or you can ruin her reputation to poke a hole in her ego. That way she would have to rebuild everything she's gained so far without knocking off the Greek Chorus. Particularly since she does, as you say, have a large socio-political influence and many allies. I'm sure she's pissed someone off enough along the way to want a little payback. Or it could be something relatively innocent that was taken in the wrong context and her rep gets trashed.
 
Last edited:

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
20,006
Reaction score
5,353
Location
Going shopping with Soccer Mom and Bubastes for fu
Heh. The whole world is pissed off at her and half of the underworld is too. I expended a lot of energy toughening this character up. I'm not into omnipotent heroes, so as I increased her socio-political powers, her physical strength decreased accordingly. So now she's very weak physically and more powerful than ever in every other way possible.
So her reputation doesn't matter to her one darn bit.

*kicks self*

Would a trashing of ye olde reputation actually produce a viable enough loss of ego, though? *ponders*

It would have to be something truly spectacular...
 

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
I really hesitate to make suggestions on the last book of a series without being familiar with the others and from the position of not particularly liking the hero's journey. So I'm just going to toss out a few random ideas but take them with lots of salt, ok?

Besides ruining her reputation, you could remove it by transforming her such that no one recognizes her, dropping her into an unfamiliar place where no one knows here, or having a baddie capture her and keep her isolated from any backup.

The other possibility: apotheosis might not be a realistic or fitting final stage of your character's personal growth. The point of this phase is to signal a decisive end of the story by retiring the main character as 'perfected' and no longer really human enough for readers to identify with or to have adventures, instead they become like a mystic or some sort of ange/demi-god removed from earthly concerns. But if your character is a more practical, earthy, or family-oriented type that might be all wrong for her. Instead of an apotheosis lifting an mc above the plain of adventure, many stories settle the main character down below the plain of adventure by weighing them down with responsibilities. This is the type of ending where a hero becomes a landed noble, governmental figure, or other pillar of a community; often they also get married and become a parent.
 

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
20,006
Reaction score
5,353
Location
Going shopping with Soccer Mom and Bubastes for fu
*ding!*

There's my answer. I just need to rewrite and strengthen the *captured by baddie and isolated from backup* part I already have and diffuse her from that point on.

As for the apotheosis, I realize that it can be used to signal a more realistic end to the character's journey but the major sub-theme I explore in all my work is the interchangeable relationship between god and man.

Don't ask me why, the muse makes me do it.

This character's apotheosis will closely mirror the Odyssey because the story is a retelling of the Trojan War myth in a traditional fantasy setting. The first four books are based upon the Iliad, the second four the Odyssey. *sigh* I'm just weird that way. So while I'll stop short at actual deification, there is a conclusion where she does move beyond the plain of adventure.

But thank you! You directed me straight to the thing I couldn't dig out of my befuddled brain!
 

ZeroFlowne

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
113
Reaction score
8
Location
New York City
Website
www.chrisalgoo.com
Could I suggest something?

What's wrong with ego? I think ego is a wonderful thing and keeping it will be a nice way to step off the Joseph Campbell path. I don't think it's necessary, or even a good idea to break this character's ego. You're having a tough time doing it, which means that you've built something special, and I really think you should keep it.
 

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
20,006
Reaction score
5,353
Location
Going shopping with Soccer Mom and Bubastes for fu
Thanks for your suggestion! It's not like I can rid her of all her ego; I don't have a choice. She'll slit my throat if I argue with her too much.

I've discovered while writing this story that there are different ways to bring a character to hubris. For example, at the moment this MC has all kinds of power--but the place that she needs to go is on top of a mountain and she can't climb it. The other people with her could climb it, but without her they'd all die. So she's stuck, defeated in one way by a big pile of rock and in another by her own frailities.

But there's a particular level of surrender of ego that I need to get her to if the final stages of the hero's journey are going to ring true. What I need to discover as I write my way through this (got 5k deeper last night) is how to peel those levels away from her without weakening the strength of the plot. It's a definite submission, a capitulation on the part of the character to her fate and/or destiny.
 

tehuti88

Mackinac Island Fanatic
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
1,487
Reaction score
149
Location
Not here anymore
Website
www.inkspot.com
This is totally not contributing anything but...ZOMG this is all so complex!! I write fiction with heavy Jungian themes so I kind of know where this is all coming from, but for me it's more of an intuitive process than the intellectual one that seems to be going on here. I just write what seems to go along with the story and what I know of the concepts and it falls together, or not, whatever. I'm the same way with writing--I know how to do it, but as for the technical names of all the stuff I know, I could never in a million years remember any of that stuff. I know the how, but not the why or what behind the how.

This makes me seriously worry over whether my stories ring true with theory or if they just come across as some sort of goofy pop-culture mishmash of writerly misconceptions on psychology. :eek: I do hope they don't!
 

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
20,006
Reaction score
5,353
Location
Going shopping with Soccer Mom and Bubastes for fu
No no--don't start thinking that way. I purposely modeled my story around the Campbell structure because I wanted it to have the feel of a Greek epic trapped within a fantasy setting. Good grief--my characters fight the Trojan War again. DON'T overanalyze your work just because some crazy lady with 100k words to go has an obsession with the classics.

If it makes you feel better, I don't outline. *grin*
 

ZeroFlowne

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
113
Reaction score
8
Location
New York City
Website
www.chrisalgoo.com
It sounds like she needs to learn that other people are valuable. I think it'd be cool if (mentally) she elevates the level of other people, rather than lowering her own level. I'm just really excited by a character with way too much self esteem :)

So, she could learn that other people have talents she doesn't, and that's fine, because the world would be boring if everyone was like her.

I'd really like to read this heroine someday, best of luck!
 

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,752
Reaction score
449
Location
Austria
What I'm going to say may sound a bit silly; but bear with me:

What if, instead of thrashing her reputation, you augment her reputation? Everybody loves her for something she didn't do. Her real achievements get ignored, while she's praised for someone else's, and for some reason she can't set the record straight. That must hurt. She's basically forced into humilty through reverse psychology, realising that - in the end - it's about the result, not the person.

(Not sure I even understand your problem correctly, but this thought just occurred.)
 

mscelina

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
20,006
Reaction score
5,353
Location
Going shopping with Soccer Mom and Bubastes for fu
*scratches head*

Hmmm. On first glance I'd have to say that it would work but for someone else's story. This part of the story takes place fifteen years after the first series. Her reputation is already distorted--both positively and negatively depending on what part of the continent you live on. She's been the main drive behind the reconciliation of several races and not everyone is happy about it. By the same token, she created a coalition strong enough to find correct the political division left behind after the first Ilian (Trojan) War. She's a polarizing character in her own world for leading the movement that shatters an established societal structure.

As a result, she's ended up pretty immune to public opinion. She an event-making hero instead of a hero made by events.
 

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,752
Reaction score
449
Location
Austria
As a result, she's ended up pretty immune to public opinion. She an event-making hero instead of a hero made by events.

Hm, I see what you mean, I think.

So what about private opinion? By someone whose oponion she really, really, really values (if such exist at all)?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.