Obscure poems

Feiss · Sep 24, 2008

A few of us wrote poems that literally, simply, described something. Now I'm wondering if we should do the converse? Because abstraction has its beauty too. I like they way Dean Young's Lives of the Painters ended, purely because of the way it sounds:

"impossible ulnas, swan sperm, beautiful beautiful bicycles"

so maybe we should attempt to write a poem by making other aspects of poetry (aside from meaning) the most important.

Or not?

ddgryphon · Sep 24, 2008

Sounds interesting--are there any guidelines?

Feiss · Sep 24, 2008

ddgryphon said:
Sounds interesting--are there any guidelines?

I think that's what we should discuss. My idea of it right now, is just to hold the sound of the poem, alliteration etc above the meaning of the poem. Also imagery etc.

Feiss · Sep 24, 2008

KTC said:
I've done this before. I am in love with words. Sometimes I just like to marry a whole bunch of them together in a piece because they sound pretty together.

Kind of like an exquisite corpse poem.

When I was reading a lot of poetry I would get really hung up on one word, like "lattice" and obsessively think about it.

Billytwice · Sep 24, 2008

I think I understand.
Sometimes the meaning is unimportant and one can get carried along by the sounds alone.
I find listening to foreign languages and music soothing, especially some Bollywood radio stations despite not understanding a word.

poetinahat · Sep 24, 2008

As Kevin does, I love the sounds of words just for themselves.

Some works (poetic and otherwise) that stand out for their sound and rhythm texture:

- The heavenly music of the Cocteau Twins: mostly, the lyrics are nonsense words, as are the titles (Pearly-Dewdrops' Drops, Millimillenary, Sugar Hiccup)

- James Joyce's Ulysses: much of it is the far side of making sense, but is more evocative. He uses onomatopoeia, alliteration, allusion, and anything else he can to render real images in an abstract way. He also combines words to make new ones (e.g. dullthudding), a practice which I've borrowed in some of the Mendoza series (and, as PrettySpecialGal has pointed out, so have Simon and Garfunkel, in Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard).

- Lewis Carroll's Jabberwocky: his meter is impeccable; his words are nonsense. But, somehow, you know exactly what he means. ("O frabjous day!") The same can be said for Dr. Seuss.

Good idea for a discussion, Feiss. Think it might turn into a workshop? (hint, hint) Or a contest, even? Let me know what you think.

Dichroic · Sep 24, 2008

Isaac Espriu said:
Ok - have gone and posted a poem based on this idea: Dust Particles

I'm going for two things in the obscure meter - message and setting. Tried to throw in a few poetic devices (avoiding obvious rhyming, though). Not sure what i'll think of it when i read it later on

I'm glad you said that :tongue

. This discussion was the first thing I thought of when reading that!

Ken · Sep 25, 2008

good poem. Especially like the flicked pebble stanza.
Your words seem to jaunt about with an equal amount of liveliness and unpredictability.

Feiss · Sep 25, 2008

poetinahat said:
As Kevin does, I love the sounds of words just for themselves.

Some works (poetic and otherwise) that stand out for their sound and rhythm texture:

- The heavenly music of the Cocteau Twins: mostly, the lyrics are nonsense words, as are the titles (Pearly-Dewdrops' Drops, Millimillenary, Sugar Hiccup)

- James Joyce's Ulysses: much of it is the far side of making sense, but is more evocative. He uses onomatopoeia, alliteration, allusion, and anything else he can to render real images in an abstract way. He also combines words to make new ones (e.g. dullthudding), a practice which I've borrowed in some of the Mendoza series (and, as PrettySpecialGal has pointed out, so have Simon and Garfunkel, in Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard).

- Lewis Carroll's Jabberwocky: his meter is impeccable; his words are nonsense. But, somehow, you know exactly what he means. ("O frabjous day!") The same can be said for Dr. Seuss.

Good idea for a discussion, Feiss. Think it might turn into a workshop? (hint, hint) Or a contest, even? Let me know what you think.

I think I'd participate in a contest or workshop.

One of my friends writes a lot of poems, and he has an innate talent to make up words like "frabjous" that I am so jealous of. He says things like "kersplackady-plop!" in a poem, and it works. I have a hard time departing from linearity.

Feiss · Sep 25, 2008

I'd like to add that i don't mean stream of consciousness, explicitly. It's more like planned attention to the sound and images of the poem so they'll create a certain effect.

Have I gone and made it too ornery?

kdnxdr · Sep 30, 2008

I wouldn't say you made it ornery, maybe provocative?

You got me thinking............hummmmmmmmmmmm........

So, where do we go from here?

Are we still discussing or is this venture going to be "hands on"?

kid

Feiss · Sep 30, 2008

kdnxdr said:
I wouldn't say you made it ornery, maybe provocative?

You got me thinking............hummmmmmmmmmmm........

So, where do we go from here?

Are we still discussing or is this venture going to be "hands on"?

kid

Hybrid, I think. I've been thinking about doing something abstract for a while, but I can't seem to get away from the concrete. I keep worrying about what to do if the reader doesn't get it.

Feiss · Sep 30, 2008

Isaac Espriu said:
That's what revisions are for. Let the poem evolve - enjoy the ride - see where you end up

Another problem is that I don't have nearly the concentration necessary for a purposefully vague poem.

kdnxdr · Sep 30, 2008

ermine, you slink
the drape of neck
sable? able, you make
me think plush
no blush, the crowd
in hush, we stare
where? where were
you when what we thought
was fraught with naught?
you never caught
even a glimmer,
the star much dimmer
in our neck
of the woods on a block,
chopped you thought;
but we fought
and won, and now
you're undone
and it's a brave new world
that's in a twirl;
fancy that
with your black top hat!

I wanted to play, so, I hope it's okay I've popped one in for feedback. I was going for my interpretation of the word obscure, as taken from my dictionary and married it with the idea of wordplay. Any thoughts?

kid

kdnxdr · Sep 30, 2008

Thank you, Isaac E.

All this crap with the economy is making me mad because it seems that the financiers would like the general public to accept the blame as a result of home loans made to "people who should have never gotten the loans = poor people".

To me that's bull crap because there is alot more to this mess and the financiers are directly resposible. I even heard someone on the so called "news" saying how this mess was orchestrated. I amen that!

I might just be a peon but I'm a pissed peon!

kid

Dichroic · Sep 30, 2008

I forget the title, but kid, the rhythm of your poem reminds me a lot of the one by Clemet Marot that begins,

Ma mignonne,
Je vous donne
Le bon jour.

(No, I don't read French poetry - Douglas Hofstadter wrote an amazing book, Le Ton Beau de Marot, centered around translation of Marot's poemlet.)

Feiss · Oct 1, 2008

kdnxdr said:
ermine, you slink
the drape of neck
sable? able, you make
me think plush
no blush, the crowd
in hush, we stare
where? where were
you when what we thought
was fraught with naught?
you never caught
even a glimmer,
the star much dimmer
in our neck
of the woods on a block,
chopped you thought;
but we fought
and won, and now
you're undone
and it's a brave new world
that's in a twirl;
fancy that
with your black top hat!

I wanted to play, so, I hope it's okay I've popped one in for feedback. I was going for my interpretation of the word obscure, as taken from my dictionary and married it with the idea of wordplay. Any thoughts?

kid

This is great.

Obscure poems

Feiss

Sleeps during the day

ddgryphon

King of Sloth Town

Feiss

Sleeps during the day

Feiss

Sleeps during the day

Billytwice

poetinahat

Numbers are beautiful

Dichroic

that's di-CROW-ick

Ken

Feiss

Sleeps during the day

Feiss

Sleeps during the day

kdnxdr

One of the most important people in the world

Feiss

Sleeps during the day

Feiss

Sleeps during the day

kdnxdr

One of the most important people in the world

kdnxdr

One of the most important people in the world

Dichroic

that's di-CROW-ick

Feiss

Sleeps during the day