Is this an 'as you know, Bob'?

It's hard to judge from so short an excerpt.

If it's a man accosting a random woman on the street, then the whole conversation seems bizarre. If it's a man and a woman on a first date, it still strikes me as somewhat odd, but slightly less so.

If it's a woman talking to a man she knows to be a 'foreigner' (even if she isn't aware that he's a nanomachine delivery device, or whatever), and the man has just stated that he'd like to grab hold of the pretty girl down at the end of the bar and copulate with her, I can kind of envision this exchange taking place.

You might consider eliminating the first two sentences of the third paragraph, leaving just the "Where do you come from..." line. It's not like the reader will need the concept of rape explained, and the viewpoint character's confusion will still be clear.

From what I understand, an "as you know, Bob" is when information is given to the reader by way of character A telling character B something they both already know. Your example wouldn't be an "as you know, Bob" because the reader already knows what rape is, and one of the characters does not.

As for whether it works...

For me, a little more context is necessary to be sure, but I get that the man isn't human and the woman is. Does she know he's non-human or does she just think he's from some weird other-place where customs are shockingly different?

If she really thinks he might not know what "rape" means, then it makes sense that she would explain. If she doesn't believe in his ignorance, though, I would expect her to react differently.

If she knows he's an alien, it works.

If she were me, and I thought he was an adult human male, I would make a derogatory sound, give him a filty look, and walk away. I find it, difficult to believe a woman would give any kind of explanation unless she was being sarcastic.

"As you know, Bob" is usually a bad way to introduce backstory. This isn't backstory.

But the fact you question it suggests something doesn't feel right. There's probably something off in the delivery.

yeah it doesn't quite ring like true dialogue in my ears.

Some good suggestions in the thread already.

I'm intrigued. I'll say that for starters.

Other than that which has already been said, I don't feel you need the "she said" in her paragraph. It's self-explanatory.

This doesn't feel like an "As you know, Bob" moment at all. The male character is obviously not human in the traditional sense, is unfamiliar with the concept of rape/human sexual mores, and it's explained to him in the shortest terms possible.
I knew exactly what you were trying to portray, and didn't have a problem with any of it.
Another point....
I had the recent pleasure of visiting another country, where there are substantial language and cultural differences. In speaking with bilingual business associates, I quickly learned that what made communication easiest was to speak in very plain and correct English and to avoid slang and even common contractions at all times. My point is that it makes sense for the female/human character to do the same with the 'male' character.

I don't like that she says "That's called 'rape' mister": it doesn't sound like something you'd hear.

What about:

"You can't just grab at a woman, and expect to have sex with her," she said, and scowled fiercely at me.

"Why not?"

"Because it's rape!"

"So?" I asked, wondering what rape was.

"'So?' So if a woman says no to sex, she means it for God's sake. Are you trying to tell me you've raped a woman?"

"No," I said.

That a female might not want to have sex with a male had never entered my mind. That Nemesia did not desire to copulate with me was unthinkable. How could I ever change a female human into a synth, if none were willing to allow me to deposit my nanomachines in them? How did human males persuade females to have sex?

April Hollands said:

I don't like that she says "That's called 'rape' mister": it doesn't sound like something you'd hear.

What about:

"You can't just grab at a woman, and expect to have sex with her," she said, and scowled fiercely at me.

"Why not?"

"Because it's rape!"

"So?" I asked, wondering what rape was.

"'So?' So if a woman says no to sex, she means it for God's sake. Are you trying to tell me you've raped a woman?"

"No," I said.

That a female might not want to have sex with a male had never entered my mind. That Nemesia did not desire to copulate with me was unthinkable. How could I ever change a female human into a synth, if none were willing to allow me to deposit my nanomachines in them? How did human males persuade females to have sex?

Click to expand...

I like this better. The last line lends itself to an interesting short story or novel with a comedic bent, or you could go all serious on us...

Nanomachines?

(Is it just me that finds this a hilarious euphemism for sperm?)

I don't think it's "as you know, Bob." It seems like she really thinks he did not know what rape is and she's trying to lecture her, or get a point across. Now, if she knows he already knows what rape is, then I think the explanation is redundant and forced. Or you can make it more plausible (if you MUST explain what rape is) with something like this:

"Are you kidding me? Serious? Rape is when a man has sex with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with him," she said. "Or vice versa. That's rape, period. Where did you come from that you don't know about rape?"

Or stretch out the dialogue more naturally like what April did.

It isn't "as you know Bob", but I have some suggestions:

petronella63 said:

She scowled fiercely at me. (move here) "You can't just grab at a woman, and expect to have sex with her."

I attempted to raised the arm nearest to her. I wanted to touch her, to feel the softness of her skin. "Why not?" It all seemed so simple to me.

She glowered and placed a knee on my arm holding it down used a knee to hold down my arm. "Because that's rape, and you just don't do that to a woman."

"What is rape? I don't understand," I said. "Please explain." (there is no reason to state who's speaking so often when there are only two people)

"Rape is when a man forces a woman to have sex with him," she said. "Or vice versa, but that doesn't happen very often. Where have you come from that you don't know about rape?"

I could not speak. That a female might not want to have sex with a male had never entered my mind. That Nemesia did not desire to copulate with me was unthinkable. This is basically repeating the sentence before it. Pick one or the other. How could I ever change a female human into a synth, if none were willing to allow me to deposit my nanomachines in them? How did human males persuade females to have sex?

Click to expand...

There are edits here, of course, but this line feels forced:

"Rape is when a man has sex with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with him," she said. "Or vice versa, but that doesn't happen very often. Where have you come from that you don't know about rape?"

Click to expand...

It almost feels like a comic book or TV moment, where the character HAS to say what he's thinking for the benefit of the audience.

I'd suggest listening to conversations of folks a bit more, especially on more sensitive subjects and see how other people come around to a topic like this.

I think part of the problem with your description is you are trying to sound like a dictionary and very politically correct. Instead, don't look at this moment as one of exposition. Look at it as an opportunity to build character. If this is a woman of the night, chances are she has had a more personal encounter with it, either herself or a friend maybe. She doesn't need to explain that it can happen to many different people, you don't have to have her explain it objectively, and PC. How dark is your novel? Instead of her just calmly explaining what rape is maybe add some rage coming from her, or at least sarcasm. In her description of it, you can also get a lot of her character across as well, maybe she's had experience with it before:

"Explain it to you? Well let's see. Rape is when some man pushes you to the ground, knocks your teeth in, hikes up your skirt and f**** you. Rape is when you are kicking and screaming and begging him to stop, and he doesn't stop. Rape is when you've been violated in the most personal way possible and no matter what you try you can't clean his smell off. Does that explain it to you?? Do you "understand" now?"

Okay that might have more rage than you are looking for, but you see how now what I have written says a lot about her as a person, about her history, as well as explaining to the other character what he needs to know?

No - 'as you know Bobs' tend to lack conflict, while this dialogue has conflict - so the information is relevant. However, it may not represent the woman's scene goal very well.

You can often spruce up dialogue though by the following steps:

• Give each character a clear scene goal
• Focus on the conflict
• Keep it from getting too trite
• Use indirect language
• Add colour where appropriate

My question for you, Petronella, is what the woman's goal is. Is it to educate or merely chastise? If it's to chastise, then she may educate by accident -- eg using sarcasm and invective, rather than by intent.

E.g.

"You can't just grab at a woman, and expect to have sex with her," she said, and scowled fiercely at me. "That's called rape, mister!"

"I don't understand rape," I said. "Explain, Please."

"Darn right you don't understand rape. You're a man."

"But I want to understand rape. Explain, Please."

"What is there to understand, you moron? When a woman says no, it means just that: NO. It doesn't mean 'get me drunk', or 'keep groping me until I change my mind', or 'make me feel sorry for you' or 'guilt me into a quickie'. It means 'I do NOT want to have sex with you so why don't you just piss OFF.'"

"Yes, but..."

"Yes, but NO."

Click to expand...

Yes but the point of my suggestion was as a way for you to get over your exposition issues. The point wasn't, "Write it this way, make her angry about rape" it was for you to use the opportunity to use the explanation to further character development. If you saw it as that as opposed to trying to simply define something, I thought it may help make your writing sound less forced.

So she isn't angry about rape. Maybe she is motherly (and again this is NOT to say she is, this is an EXAMPLE): "Oh my goodness dear, you really are clueless aren't you? Okay, now have a seat. Rape is a very difficult thing to explain really, but I shall do my best. . . " Again here we now see the character as a motherly figure taking pity on a poor ignorant boy. We learn about her character at the same time as learning about the meaning of rape.

Maybe she is a valley girl: "Like oh my god you don't know what rape is? Like okay there is something so totally wrong with you!"

The point is use this opportunity to further something about the character, NOT exposition.

ETA: you say her goal is to educate fine, but coming from a long line of teachers I can tell you there are many different teaching styles and they all come down to personality. So you need to ask yourself, how does she view this boy? Is his ignorance frustrating, understandable, sweet, annoying, absurd . . . how does she view it? In her view of it then she will decide how to offer her explanation, she could be annoyed, motherly, condescending, amused, horrified and yes, even angry. Just because she wishes to educate doesn't mean she is suddenly a robot with no feelings.

This is the problem with a lot of SF/fantasy I find where one character is familiar with a world when another is not. This one character will explain all the facts very matter of factly about this world as if the stranger has happened upon the only tourist guide around. People have feelings. They've had rough days, or good days. Someone asks you what the local currency is they aren't just going to necessarily answer, "Why it is the Bleepnet. Of course in the provinces they use the Gurmblat." They'd be more likely to say, "What? Oh, the Bleepnet. Seriously? You don't know that?" or something else. They are people, not just exposition machines.


Lastly I would suggest you reread my original post and see how what you gleaned from it and what I actually expressed were two separate things. I reread it myself to make sure I hadn't been unclear, and I truly don't think I was (this time, that's not to say I haven't been in the past ). Part of writing is understanding criticism. That seems straightforward, but we as authors have to train ourselves to truly glean the advice being given. For example I had a very difficult scene in my first book that my editor wanted me to cut down. She gave many examples how to do so, but I didn't like any of them. However I understood why she had made those suggestions, and the goal behind them. I was therefore able to make my own cuts the way I wanted to, and still do what she requested. I used the spirit of the suggestion, not the suggestion itself. We have to deal with people critiquing us all the time, some people we agree with and others we don't. But it helps to make any final decisions on that front to understand what the person is trying to tell you in a more general sense, instead of focusing on the minutia. You may think it absurd for example to cut a certain character per someone's suggestion, but still you could understand why the person didn't like the character to begin with. This can then lead you to either make changes in the character himself, or realise that the reason the person didn't like the character was because you know she's the kind of person who doesn't like people named Bob, and therefore you'll leave things as is.

Anyway, just a last thought.

As others have said above, the locus of awkwardness to get around in the explanation of rape is this: defining a word doesn't tell the character anything about ethics. "Rape is such-and-such a thing. It's not cool." I think your character, who is thinking, "What alternatives are there?", is more likely to think, "Why the hell not?" As it sits, the sample creates a situation where your character doesn't avoid involuntary advances because they are inappropriate in and of themselves, but because they run counter to normal social customs. Probably not as strong a message as you want to send.

I always considered 'As you know, Bob's' placed to convey information to the reader. Since I assume your reader already knows what rape is, this feels more like information that benefits the character, so it's cool.

You might want to dump the last part of the first paragraph. Where it explains what rape is.