effortlessly popular people

bethany · Sep 17, 2008

I started this away from random musings because...I just wanted a stand alone discussion. I'm revising with notes from my agent and a reader who does reader notes I guess for WH.

I've never written a popular character before. I was a little nervous about making molly popular because I usually write cynical characters. But what I decided to do was make her effortlessly popular. As in, one of thpse people that others just like, who isn't climbing a social ladder because she doesn't need to, who doesn't care about fashion or hair or makeup or gossip. At the time of the story she has discarded all of the popularity trappings- focusing on her boyfriend and her romantic relationship with a girl, and just getting through some stuff- like her sister's problems which have turned her off to the high school thing. She is NOT the most popular girl or the prom queen, but she is the co-classpresident and on the ballot for homecoming queen.

Does a popular character have to care about popularity and hair and fashion?

Nakhlasmoke · Sep 17, 2008

bethany said:
ETA- duh, that's supposed to say effortlessly. I am braindead from revision suggestions today!
...
Does a popular character have to care about popularity and hair and fashion?

Sadly, i'm going to say yes. thinking back on the people who were popular when I was in prison, it was generally people who were very aware of what they were doing and how they were seen, and cultivated that.

YMMV

brittanimae · Sep 17, 2008

Based in experience, not literature, I'm going with you on this one Bethany. There were a few girls I knew growing up who just had the stuff people like--beauty, brains, personality. Yes, people liked them. And often they didn't seem to be trying. I even knew one who ended up homecoming queen--but like you said, that's rarer.

Sage · Sep 17, 2008

I think in both life and some literature/media, there are some people who can be popular without trying. And therefore, whether they care or not, they seem not to care. I don't think a character has to care about hair and fashion to be popular anyway. There probably should be something that attracts people to them--personality, attractiveness, activities--but it doesn't have to be their conscious effort to make people like them.

(Incidentally, as far as I could tell, the most popular people in our high school were the ones who did a lot of extra-curriculars)

However, when they have the popularity (without trying) it's easy for them not to worry about it. If they were to lose that, it'd be interesting to see how much they care then. (not saying Molly needs that, just musing aloud)

Nakhlasmoke · Sep 17, 2008

Sage said:
...
(Incidentally, as far as I could tell, the most popular people in our high school were the ones who did a lot of extra-curriculars)
...

Totally seconding this observation. Sport was generally the biggie though. The one girl in particular that comes to mind (all girls school) was on the swimming team, the netball team, the tennis team and was head girl. She was also wealthy and blonde - make of that what you will.

donut · Sep 17, 2008

I like sage's post. I agree, that would be very interesting.

But yeah, Bethany, I think it's totally believable to have an effortlessly popular character -- in fact, I think most popular kids take it for granted and don't angst about it at all. My niece is sixteen and very very popular at her school... Of course she is, she's blond and petite and rich and smart and friendly and doesn't have strong opinions... She knows she's popular, and she seems to assume that this is the natural order of things because of her inherent awesomeness.

My point is, when things come easily to people, it's hard for them to even imagine them being a struggle or a source of angst for other people. So I would totally believe in that for a character.

ETA: lol, cat, @ doubling your blond and rich comment.

goatprincess · Sep 17, 2008

I would also have to say it's very possible. Lots of people have had the same group of friends for years, and that group forms the social center of their high school. They don't really have a need to care about popularity because they've never lacked friends and never been pushed to the fringes--but at the same time they did NOT have to claw their way over dead bodies to get to the top of the social hierarchy.

Nakhlasmoke · Sep 17, 2008

Something I thought i'd just throw out there - this popular girl once quietly admitted that she really didn't want to do all this extra-curricular stuff, but that her mother expected and demanded it. Her mother, as I remember her, was one of those very pushy socialite mothers who are clinging to their slowly-slipping youth with their perfectly manicured nails and live vicariously through their children.

Sage · Sep 17, 2008

A lot of kids do them so they can put them on their college apps too. You know, put in five hours of community service for this club and get to put it on your applications, whether you cared about the community service or not. But if you go to some meetings and are friendly, you'd still make quite a few friends that way.

bethany · Sep 17, 2008

well, I guess I'm either not showing this effectively, or else the reason for it is not apparent. I dunno.

Kats · Sep 17, 2008

bethany said:
Does a popular character have to care about popularity and hair and fashion?

I don't think they do have to care about those things, in fact, sometimes the fact that they don't care about them is the reason why they're popular. As in, their unselfconsciousness and individuality is appealing to others (I have a friend like this). Of course they have to have something going for them in the first place to be popular!

Sage · Sep 17, 2008

what exactly was the suggestion/crit?

bethany · Sep 17, 2008

m has mentioned several times that she doesn't think Molly needs to be so popular. I toned it down, like took her from prom queen and homecoming queen, to just getting frustrated that she keeps getting put on the ballot.

Sage · Sep 17, 2008

Maybe she's worried about the people who don't like to read about popular people? I know some people don't like characters that are popular. (one beta commented about it for Eric, but ended up liking him anyway ETA: actually, now that I think of it, there were two betas who said this)

Nakhlasmoke · Sep 17, 2008

Once again, I'm going to second sage, kinda.

popular people tend to make me feel even stupider and useless than I already feel - it's not often I relate to "popular" mcs and I certainly don't go out of my way to read about them - nothing in their life experience speaks to me.

I think Greedy sounds like an interesting novel though, so takle my comment for what it's worth.

Sage · Sep 17, 2008

Sage feels popular in this thread. Effortlessly

Danthia · Sep 17, 2008

There's popular and then there's cliquish. The most popular people in my school were not the most liked. They had their circle of friends, and they were what most people wished they could be, but they were also the ones people secretly wished would trip up and fall from grace.

There were some people who were genuinely nice people who everyone liked, and they liked them because they were nice and didn't play the social game.

As long as your character is likable to readers, and they can see why everyone would like her, you should be fine no matter what you do. It's when your readers start doubting why anyone would think X about your character you have to worry.

vixey · Sep 17, 2008

Hope I'm on topic here . . .

Maybe you need to distinguish between popular and being completely comfortable with yourself (confident and mature, no need to worry about how you're perceived). There's a book called Queen Bees and Wannabees that the movie Mean Girls came from. The girls in this book try to be popular and feel like that have to make derogatory comments about people around them. They need to feel superior because they're really very insecure.

It sounds like your character is more comfortable with herself. That kind of self-confidence/self-esteem is a powerful lure to people who don't have it. Everyone wants to have a strong self-esteeem. It would make her naturally popular.

FWIW

Bubastes · Sep 17, 2008

I'm not sure if this will help, but here's a book where the main character is gorgeous, but not what I would consider a "typical popular girl" character:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/068987619X/?tag=absolutewritedm-20

JoNightshade · Sep 17, 2008

I remember when I was in high school there was one girl who everyone liked. She would never end up as the homecoming queen simply because she wasn't drop-dead gorgeous or anything, but EVERYONE liked her. She literally just wandered between cliques, spending a month or two with one group of people and then moving on to another, because she fit in everywhere. She was cute, lacked ego, studied hard, and was really tolerant of everyone. She did some extra curricular activities, not others, and her parents were fairly involved in the community.

bethany · Sep 17, 2008

I guess I'm going to just try to make make her social status a non-issue. The fact that Emma has a weakness for popular type girls isn't important until the second book, and until we sell the first one, the second one is a moot point.

But all of your comments and memories and ideas are helpful!

darrtwish · Sep 17, 2008

I'm going to say no, and that is based on personal experience. I know people in real life that are as you say "effortlessly popular". They're the sweetest, kindest people I know, and pretty darn funny, too and don't give a hoot about hair, make-up and fashion. So I'd say if people are effortlessly popular in real life, why can't they be effortlessly popular in a novel?

Clair Dickson · Sep 17, 2008

The popular kids in my school would never have shown up to school in hand-me-downs that didn't fit or with a brownbag lunch that consisted of just a sandwhich and a juice box. They may or may not have worn make-up, but they were always easy on the eyes. They were part of extra-curricular activities, and while a bit cliquish, most of them were nice to us outcasts. Especailly the ones who were comfortable enough with themselves that they didn't fear being seen with one of the nerds.

But there were always a few kids who were so comfortable with themselves that they got along with everyone. I wouldn't call them "popular" they were just nice. They weren't stuck up or unpleasant or afraid of associating with the geeks or other outcasts. Everyone can like this sort of person. And since they hang out with the popular kids, they sometimes get branded that way. But these folks also hang out with everyone else, too. (And some of them were pretty good defenders of the outcasts...)

Fillanzea · Sep 17, 2008

bethany said:
m has mentioned several times that she doesn't think Molly needs to be so popular. I toned it down, like took her from prom queen and homecoming queen, to just getting frustrated that she keeps getting put on the ballot.

I definitely don't think that all popular girls work on being popular, or care about being popular, but I'll confess that this kinda rings a warning bell for me. I don't know if any of this applies to your novel AT ALL, IN THE SLIGHTEST, but this is my reasoning here:

Complaining about being put on the prom queen ballot is sort of like complaining that you don't have anywhere to park all your BMWs, or complaining that you're too good looking and you wish guys would stop hitting on you.

It belongs in the category of 'saddest song played on tiniest violin.' It's also a little reminiscent of the cliche where the girl complains about her high cheekbones, her slim boyish figure, and [all the other things that actually make her drop-dead gorgeous.]

She can be a little embarrassed and bewildered, I think, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for her if she's frustrated.

Woodsie · Sep 17, 2008

bethany said:
Does a popular character have to care about popularity and hair and fashion?

I haven't read anyone else's answers so that I can remain unaffected. I say no, because a person can be popular because they're an amazing basketball player, or they are known for being nice to everyone, or by some flip of the switch gained acknowledgment at some point and haven't managed to turn infamous.

Another thought: A person can be popular for a collage of reasons, a shoe is only popular because of trends or fashion. Inanimate vs. animate.

effortlessly popular people

:)

yes

making a fresh start.

Our Lady of Parentheticals

yes

fame-seeking floozy

untitled

yes

Our Lady of Parentheticals

:)

Our Lady of Parentheticals

:)

Our Lady of Parentheticals

yes

Our Lady of Parentheticals

Danthia

C'est la vie!

bananaed

has finally arrived

:)

A dark core to every cloud

I have tendencies.