Advice sought on the depiction of gay sex shops ...

I'm writing an urban fantasy set in London and have been struggling with a scene involving my female MC and her friend. The scene is set on New Year's Eve and both characters are in Soho on their way to a club.

The problem I'm having relates to the following: I want them to go into a gay sex shop in Soho.

There is a perfectly good reason for them to do this - my MC is getting blisters on her feet owing to a pair of new boots chafing at the skin. The scene is also intended to highlight the different attitudes to sex that my MC has compared with her best friend, particularly when the shop owner mishears their question as to whether he sells socks and sends them over to a row of ... well, let's just say that it's a product that rhymes with socks but you can't put them on your feet ... My MC finds this incredibly embarrassing and doesn't know where to look, but her best friend thinks it's hilarious and is particularly fascinated by the arse gnome. It's partly my MC's uncomfortable reaction to this that sets up a later argument between the two characters.

I've done my research so I know that there are gay sex shops open on New Year's Eve in Soho (and I even know that some of them sell socks - you don't want to know the weird looks that question got me). The book will be aimed at the 14+ market. I've also read a lot of YA books set in contemporary times so I know there's room for maneuvre in terms of language and subject matter.

My dilemma is how much description can I go into in order to flesh out the scene? For example, is it okay to describe a row of butt plugs and dildos in their full plastic glory, or should I not linger on them? Ditto cock rings and bondage gear. Obviously, I don't want to titilate for the sense of titilation and I'm definitely not out to shock for the hell of it, but I equally don't want the scene to come across as a sanitised, Disneyified sex shop.

Any advice or suggestions will be gratefully received.

MM

HeaGrg:
I think there would be a problem going into details about various sex toys, their appearence and possible usage

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I'm not proposing to set out the ins and outs of how they work (pun shamefully intended), but I do want to give a sense of what's on offer in the store. I think you're right though that I should be focusing on my MC's reaction to it all.

Maryn:
FWIW--nothing, maybe--where I live (in the US), kids that age would not be allowed to enter an adult store. If they came in anyway, they'd be asked to leave quickly, and if they didn't, they'd be physically removed. Are you sure they can be in the shop in London?

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In theory, sex shops are for over 18s only. In practice though, you see a lot of teens going in there and I've been on a lot of teen message boards where they talk about purchases made from Anne Summers and Harmony. In the case of my novel, both girls are dressed up for the night, which makes them seem older and my MC is very big for her age, which would make a shop assistant less likely to ask for ID. You have given me an idea though re the age restrictions because it's something that my MC would be concerned about (although her friend wouldn't be) and I can refer to that in a later scene.

Many thanks

MM

Donkey:
What you propose is cheap, gratuitous titillation, pure and simple. It's beneath a writer of any worth.
Needing a change of shoes is as unlikely a device as any other I can imagine to put kids in a sex shop and walk them around describing one of the seediest sides of humanity.
What's the point, really? You've got your reasons clearly stated, but I find them transparent and weak. IMHO, you should dump the scene altogether and concentrate on material that's actually age appropriate.

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Well, I think a lot of it turns on the context of the scene and what's happened before hand. Like I said, I don't want to do it for titilating reasons or to deliberately shock anyone. The scene does tie in to the characters attitude to sex, my MC's own sense of embarrassment (which partly comes from living with a conservatively minded grandmother) and it will feed into a later argument between the MC and her friend. I was also at pains to say in my original post that I'm really looking for advice on how much detail I can put into the scene in order to avoid it being titilating or needlessly shocking. (Incidentally, the scene revolves around a change of socks, not shoes).

The scene is part of a chapter that takes place in Soho. I don't know whether you've ever been to Soho, but it's a big pub, club and entertainment area in London and (for better or for worse) there's a lot of sex on display, including several sex stores, some with 'soft' bondage gear on display in the front window. British teenagers go into these stores. They know about sex. Many of them have done it.

I'm aiming the book at those aged 14+ and I'm doing so in the expectation that the readership will have some knowledge of these things (probably more than me, going by what I read on YA chatboards!) At the same time, I'm trying to show a degree of responsibility by not making the scene gratuitous, which is why I wanted the advice of the people on the board.

Donkey:
I'm sure some others will disagree, but this is a discussion forum and mine is a legitimate opinion.

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I understand that you, as a parent, may not want your son/daughter to read a novel including such a scene and I have no problem with you expressing that opinion.

I do however, have an issue with you suggesting that my reasons for including the scene are contrary to what I've expressed in my opening post, especially given that I have stressed quite clearly, that I am not looking to do what you say I want to do. I particularly have a problem with your suggestion that the fact that I want to include such a scene means that I have no worth or merit as a writer.

Given that you don't know me, you haven't read any of my WIP and you have no clue as to where I'm taking the characters, it's arrogant to suggest that you have some superior knowledge as to what my true motives are. You don't. You also have no right to use your moral indignation as a justification to impugn my writing abilities.

I'm not asking for opinions as whether I should include this scene in my novel because I've already decided that I need to write it. I'm asking for opinions as to the level of description and things to avoid in writing it (i.e. more how much is too much). You don't like the scene as a concept, I get that and I can even respect that. But I don't have to accept the nastiness being thrown from your perceived moral high ground.

angelgirl:
Is there a way you can achieve your goal without having them actually enter the shop?

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It's something that I've been mulling over. I know that my MC's friend would definitely go into the store though because she'd think she was being daring by doing so. Whether my MC would follow her is the million dollar question. To be honest, she could go either way but because the purpose of the girls being in Soho is expressly so that my MC can have the kind of wild night out that her grandmother wouldn't approve of suggests to me that she'd go in, if only to prove to her mate that she's not boring.

veinglory:
I will admit to having been and many sex shops, but none that were gay-specifc. You will generally see a lot of novelties, cards, sex toys and some pron. But a lot of the more explicit stuff is still often discreetly packaged.

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There are a couple of gay-specific shops along Old Compton Street, which I went into when I was doing my research. The porn videos/mags and the really 'out-there' gear are hidden at the back, but the toys were on open display along one wall.

Given the reaction of some people to the question, am I safer cutting out any references to bondage/S&M gear and keeping the description of dildos to the equivalent of an Ikea catalogue summary (i.e. very bland, neutral) and then focusing more on the MC's horrified reaction?

MM

roncouch:
Ask a 14 year old gay kid. They probably know more than all of us combined.

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A couple of my beta readers have got their teenage children to read the WIP to give me their opinion. Neither the adults nor the teens have a problem with the concept of a visit to a gay sex shop, although one of my beta readers says that depending on how the scene comes out, they might not show it to their 13 year old son.

roncouch:
I think the whole idea is disgusting, but I'm just expressing my views.

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Thank you for sharing, but like I said, I'm not looking for opinions on the morality of the scene, just how to go about the depiction of it.

MM

mscelina:
MM, I've read your posts and I can't really see a viable reason for the kids to go into a shop like that.

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They're 15 (almost 16) and if you go into Soho, there are plenty of teens that age irunning in and out of the clubs in skimpy outfits and getting drunk. They also check out the sex stores, mostly for a laugh, sometimes on a dare and sometimes because they actually want to buy something.

The build up to the 'why' relates to the relationship between the MC and her friend. Basically, the MC thinks she's daring and outrageous, she's out to shock and she's also trying to 'shame' the MC into not being boring. When the MC complains that she's getting blisters and needs some socks or something to cushion her feet against the new pair of boots that her friend basically bullied her into buying, the friend picks the sex shop and suggests they try in there.

mscelina:
I tend to think it's a little gratuitous because I can't figure out how two teens in a sex shop would forward the plot. Add to that--the kids would have to be colossally stupid to go into a store like that looking for socks.

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In terms of furthering the plot, it ties into and fuels an argument that the characters have later, the outcome of which is what sees my MC left on her own, in Soho, past midnight and sets up her encounter with the male MC. The fact that my MC is so uncomfortable in the store and not up for making jokes about what she sees in the store is what annoys her friend who thinks she's just being uptight and boring. It's the fact that she's worried about being uptight that also leads to the MC making a later pass at the male MC.

In terms of why they go in, on NYE the sex shops are about the only places still open late into the night and the rationale offered by the MC's friend is that given the shop sells underwear, they might sell socks as well.

NVS - if you've got advice on writing the scene, then I'm interested in reading it. What I'm not interested in is receiving a moral lecture of having the scene at all because I've already made that decision.

Where we seem to be coming out here is that people would have less of a problem if the characters remain out of the shop than if they went into it. I might be able to work with that. I'll see how it goes in the writing.

MM

veinglory:
If this is specifically set in Soho you might want to look at Google street view and see what is there. The more I think about it the more I wonder if gay-specific sex shops really exist very much offline, let alone at that location. If they did it would like look mainly like a store with boxes (if you are going to make 'imtimate' use of something you want it sterilised and package). Maybe a few pride and pinup things.

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I live in London and have wandered around Soho many times (including NYE, which is when my chapter's set) as part of the research process (honest, guv!), so I know that there are gay-specific sex stores in the area.

MM