890 pages? Anathema!

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a_sharp

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No, actually the title is "Anathem" and the publisher is Morrow. It's a fantasy by Neal Stephenson.

Requires a glossary of invented terms, accompanying CD, a taste for quantum physics and phenomenalogical philosophy, and tolerance for pedantic prose.

Just proves there are no rules for length.
 

shebitme

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if you're published and famous, sure, there are no rules. This isnt stephenson's first book though
 

James D. Macdonald

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If you've built the fan-base to be sure of the sales to pay for the print run you'd have to buy to get the price down to a reasonable range ... there are no rules for length.
 

A.C.

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And then there's Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell.

There are always exceptions to the rules.

If your book is meant to be long, do not shorten it because of some "rules."
 

Maryn

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Having read Neal Stephenson's equally massive Cryptonomicon, he's got my okay to write as long as he feels is necessary. His four-page riff on the proper way to eat Cap'n Crunch was that brilliant.

Established writers who will get sales because they are who they are get carte blanch in terms of length. For some, this is liberating; they need not stifle their brilliant riffs. For others (cough-Stephen King-cough), an editor demanding a reduction in word count would have produced a far better novel. But if it sells without it, the publisher is not in any position to complain.

Maryn, who quit reading King eons ago for that reason
 

Straka

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Having read Neal Stephenson's equally massive Cryptonomicon, he's got my okay to write as long as he feels is necessary. His four-page riff on the proper way to eat Cap'n Crunch was that brilliant.

That was a massive read, but I was impressed how well he was able to hold my attention throughout the book. I liked his Diamond Age but his writing did not seem as consistent as it did in Crypto.

I'll have to look into this new one.
 

Telstar

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Can somebody sum up the plot? thanks.
 

James81

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Wow, if I need a glossary and a CD in order to read a book, I think I'd pass. :tongue
 

Nateskate

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These are market-driven decisions. I purposely knocked my first novel down below 100,000 words, simply because so many agents and writers said the chance of being considered for publishing would increase.

However, it's possible I will incrementally increase each book size- but that call will be the publisher's more than mine.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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And then there's Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell.

Clarke had been publishing award-winning short fiction and novellas for more than ten years.

Although JS&Mr.N was her first novel, she was not a debut writer by any means.

First-time writers are much better served by writing to market length. For every one writer who publishes a giant tome as their debut, there are thousands who break in with a novel at market length.

There's no reason to cut down your odds by going against the grain.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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In my experience, first-time writers aren't "better served" by much of anything in the publishing business.

There are lots of ways to not to get published.

There are fewer ways to get published.

The trick is knowing the difference.
 

KWHolland

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Established writers who will get sales because they are who they are get carte blanch in terms of length. For some, this is liberating; they need not stifle their brilliant riffs. For others (cough-Stephen King-cough), an editor demanding a reduction in word count would have produced a far better novel. But if it sells without it, the publisher is not in any position to complain.

To be fair to King, this seems to be a problem with lots of bestselling writers who suffer from fearful editing -- IMHO Rowling's last three Harry Potter novels could have been easily cut by more than half and been better for it (and one of them, Half-Blood Prince, could probably have been cut altogether from the series and not have been missed).

And in King's defense -- even though I think he's produced more misses than hits overall, even when he was well-past the need to submit to editing he has produced the occasional slim novel (The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon and Gerald's Game are two that come to mind) and his lengthiest novel (The Stand) is generally considered to be his masterpiece.

On the flip side, some authors do become lengthier as they go along because they become better writers and produce more complex novels -- compare Dennis Lehane's early Kenzie & Gennaro mysteries to his novels from Mystic River on (his newest is 720 pages and getting great reviews).

For those of us who are aspiring but unpublished novelists, I think it stands to reason that lengthier manuscripts are harder to sell, even if there are occasional exceptions.

Perhaps my 180,000-word opus is a work of sheer genius and utter brilliance and will break all the barriers, but I just don't trust my judgment enough to risk wasting that much time. :D
 

Kitty Pryde

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Having read Neal Stephenson's equally massive Cryptonomicon, he's got my okay to write as long as he feels is necessary. His four-page riff on the proper way to eat Cap'n Crunch was that brilliant.

Yes! The Captain Crunch scene! Genius! <scurries away to buy captain crunch and milk in a box>

I'm not really sure why it works for Neal Stephenson. I've read all his novels. A few years ago I told a friend that I was reluctant to read Stephenson's "Quicksilver" because the beginning was dull and it was sooooo long. He said, and this is a verbatim quote, "No, you should read it. It really starts to pick up after the first two hundred pages!" :eek:

Err, so I read it. It really did pick up after the first 200 pages! It seems disastrous but evidently he's workin' it. I can't wait for Anathem to come in the mail (poor ole postman, lugging it around!)
 

Telstar

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"No, you should read it. It really starts to pick up after the first two hundred pages!" :eek:

This means to me that the first 200 pages could (and should) have been condensed to 50-60.
 

JohnDavidPaxton

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I've read Foucault's Pendulum. By the time I finished it I need FIVE other books. But I did it.

Yes. There are exceptions to the rule. Always have been.

But it's like saying "I know this guy who got run over by a Semi and he was fine, ergo, it's safe to lie down in the middle of the street."

We all want to be the exception. Some of us are that lucky. Most of us aren't.
 

dragoon_elf

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neal stephenson is a freak.

plain and simple, the guy is a freak.

but i mean that in the best possible way. not a lot of people can write the AMOUNT of fiction he can. just in terms of sheer numbers (pages, obscure words, research, etc.). so he's very impressive in that regard.

stylistically and storywise, i'm not a fan at all. but the guy isn't human.
 

DeeCaudill

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It's worth noting that Stephenson's earliest novels like Zodiac, The Big U, and those he co-wrote under the name Bury were all more or less "normal length".

I'm roughly halfway through Anathem, and I can't believe how well his storytelling can hold my attention. I'm even willing to follow digressions in the appendices (geometric proofs, etc.).

I'm still waiting for the brain-searingly bad sex scene, it's something of a Stephenson trademark. Antique furniture, anyone?
 

otterman

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Stephenson can be brilliant, I agree. I read Cryptonomicon and his moments of brilliance convinced me to keep reading, even when I was hoping something would happen. When I started reading Quicksilver, not even my respect for his talent (as displayed in more moments of brilliance) could keep me reading. Like some other gifted writers (Dan Simmons is an example) who have a style, creativity, and perceptiveness that blows you away, Stephenson forgets (or is not reminded by those who edit his work) that there must be a story that makes the reader want to turn the page. It's sad because there's so much talent there. Just a reader's opinion.
 
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