Do you like TV/Movies less because you're a writer?

JoNightshade · Sep 9, 2008

Some people have complained that coming to AW and "learning the rules of writing" has ruined reading for them - they can't turn off the internal editor and just ENJOY a book anymore.

My reading hasn't been affected by this phenomenon, but my TV and movie viewing experiences certainly have.

It's just no fun anymore when I watch a show for 10 minutes and say "Oh, look at that foreshadowing. So and so is going to die." My most "infamous" one is the first episode of Lost (or was it the second? can't remember) where John Locke stands up, looking a bit confused. I said, "Oh yeah, there was a wheelchair back there. He used to be paralyzed." Lo and behold, some number of episodes later, the "secret" is revealed.

Anyway, TV just seems so much more predictable now. I always know what's coming.

Anyone else?

Phoebe H · Sep 9, 2008

JoNightshade said:
Anyway, TV just seems so much more predictable now. I always know what's coming.

Anyone else?

It's worse than that -- we've taught our children so well that my 13 year-old can point out all the foreshadowing. He's starting to get faster at it than I am. (Though my ex is still the best.)

But that's why I love Joss Whedon. I can only predict his plots about half the time.

rugcat · Sep 9, 2008

I don't think so. Bad writing is bad writing, and a whole lot of non writers notice the exact same things.

Mumut · Sep 10, 2008

I've never liked movies. I go once ever ten years if I need to or not - usually the kids give their parents tickets and that's the only way my wife gets to go. I've spent fourteen years of my adult life in areas without TV. So I've never been able to stand a poor program. I mean, things like Neighbours; murder, sexual abuse, rape, incest - it's most family's everyday life so why put it on TV? So my writing only confirms what I already felt.

Darklite · Sep 10, 2008

I find most movies now are all special effects and A-list stars. Good writing stopped being a requirement of film-making years ago.

I still enjoy the odd Tv show though, like Lost and Desperate Housewives where the foreshadowing is subtle and I can’t usually trace it to what’s going to happen next. Both these shows have fantastic writers. Wouldn’t it be nice if Hollywood could come up with something half so clever?

Linda Adams · Sep 10, 2008

No. I think the writing quality in films and TV have generally gone downhall. Not everything--there are still some good shows and movies out there, but they seem hard to find.

Everything has always been focused on money, but in the last twenty years, it's become even more so. The network execs will cancel a show after one or two episodes if it's not an instant hit--never mind that a lot of times the first couple of episodes usually aren't very good because it takes maybe half a season for the actors to settle into their roles. The execs will also cancel a highly rated show with good wrting because the demographics aren't the audience they want to attract for advertisers.

I also suspect it's because the generation of writers doing them are watching other TV shows and movies and not reading books. A perfect example of this is what they did for the second Jurassic Park film: A bunch of guys sat around the table coming up with special effects for the film. Eventually they realized they kind of needed a story to tie it together--so they wrote a story to fit the special effects. It was like the story was an after thought--but you know, a good story is what turns the movie into something that stays around forever!

The last three movies I watched I didn't even finish. I got about ten minutes into the them, and each one felt like someone had just said, "Let's put a girl in tight clothes, have some swearing, and a lot of action." What about the story?

JimmyB27 · Sep 10, 2008

Linda Adams said:
The last three movies I watched I didn't even finish. I got about ten minutes into the them, and each one felt like someone had just said, "Let's put a girl in tight clothes, have some swearing, and a lot of action." What about the story?

The last three movies I watched I didn't finish either. They had great stories, but no girls in tight clothes. If only someone would make a film with story and tight-clothed girls.

Seriously though, I think there's some pretty good TV and film out there. Sometimes it takes a bit of finding, and sometimes it requires a bit of lowering of standards, and sometimes it's even a hard to avoid summer blockbuster (TDK, anyone?).
I don't really watch TV anymore, but I've become somewhat addicted to boxsets of programmes I've heard a lot of good things about. So I guess I'm just cutting out the stage at which there's still a lot of crap about and picking up only what's already been 'approved'.

ChaosTitan · Sep 10, 2008

Being a writer doesn't affect how I watch or appreciate movies and TV. I've picked on plot holes and guessed at outcomes long before I gave a serious go at writing.

More than anything, I think the problem is saturation. Between film, television, books, comics, and internet, we've seen the same stories told so many times that it's hard to see anything as new. And it's just as hard to come up with something truly unique. It's all become *how* those same old stories are told, and some do it better than others.

Shadow_Ferret · Sep 10, 2008

JoNightshade said:
Some people have complained that coming to AW and "learning the rules of writing" ...

I was supposed to learn something here? :Wha:

No. I enjoy movies and television as much as I've always enjoyed them. Since I don't write for media and have no idea how that works, those things are still magical to me and I still get as carried away by them as I always did. I hope that never changes. That would make me sad.

maestrowork · Sep 10, 2008

I say "who wrote this s***?" a lot but, nah, I enjoy my entertainment without putting on my writer's hat.

TerzaRima · Sep 10, 2008

I never thought about it like that, but I almost always ask Mr Rima, "Wanna know who did it?" about half way through Law and Order, The Closer , et al. Sometimes he wants to know, and sometimes he would rather be kept in suspense.

Shadow_Ferret · Sep 10, 2008

TerzaRima said:
I never thought about it like that, but I almost always ask Mr Rima, "Wanna know who did it?" about half way through Law and Order, The Closer , et al.

I'd have to bludgeon you, put you in a steamer trunk, and bury you in the woods.

Srsly.

dgiharris · Sep 10, 2008

I think being a writer has enhanced (for good or bad) my movie and TV watching experience.

I think the more knowledge you have, the 'better' your experience in a certain area. Not to say those without that knowledge won't like the experience, they just don't understand the experience to the extent that you do.

Take for instance science. When they come out with a new faster computer, the public just says, 'cool'. Buys the gizmo, and goes about their lives without a second thought. But someone with an appreciation for engineering, math, physics, etc has an understanding that John Q public does not. They understand that we are now, in effect, building on an ATOMIC level, using quantum engineering in the construction of our microchips. Something a few decades ago, woudl have been called impossible.

So it is with movies and books. I marvel out how Joss Whedon can take the viewer on an emotional journey from near tears to rage to passion to humor all within a 60 minute block of t.v., ensuring the characters are real, dialogue flawless, in time with the commercial breaks, and in a way that progressing the story, is seemless, and down right fucking genuis. The average viewer, thinks nothing of it and just says, "Wow, good show"

As for me, I look at the masterpiece that is his show and pray that someday I could write something a 10th as good as he.

That is my take. Understanding (for good or bad) enhances my experience.

Mel...

maestrowork · Sep 10, 2008

dgiharris said:
I think being a writer has enhanced (for good or bad) my movie and TV watching experience.

Yes, when something is well done. I was marveling at the writing this past Oscar season, for example. No Country for Old Men, There Will be Blood, Atonement... are you kidding me? The writer's part of me was in ecstasy.

But when the movie was bad, I did say "who wrote this s***?" a lot more often.

Sarpedon · Sep 10, 2008

I stopped watching TV when I went to grad school. I simply didn't have any time to do it then, and when I was done, I had fallen out of the habit. It just never occurs to me to turn the TV on when I have a spare moment. It just sits there, mute and and dusty. Like a coffin.

sassandgroove · Sep 10, 2008

But I don't think the topic is TV viewing, it is, "Has learning about writing changed your enjoyment of reading, and viewing?" So Sarpedon, has learning about writing changed your enjoyment of entertainment, including reading?

dgiharris said:
I think being a writer has enhanced (for good or bad) my movie and TV watching experience.

YES! My first thought when I saw Jo's post was that while I get annoyed when I notice flaws, I also now get excited when I see writing/story telling, done well. After reading Uncle Jim's thread, for example, where he said that you have to tell the reader what is going to happen while still surprising them, I get excited upon reading (more on re-reading) and finding little nuggets, throw away lines, that actually tell the ending, but you don't notice because it appeared to be a throw away line.

Between film school and writing classes and such, it can be hard to turn off the internal editor, but when a story is very good, I generally lose myself in it.

I'd say it hasn't ruined my enjoyment so much as it has made me more discerning and selective.

ETA_ oy, I found this in the new posts I just realized it is in movies and tv. ANyway, I stand by my comment.

WriteKnight · Sep 10, 2008

Can a magician watch another magician's show, and still be entertained?

Sure. But it has to be really, really good.

On the other hand, a poor show is an illustration in what not to do, how not to do it, and the futility of wanting to get paid for doing it right.

Sarpedon · Sep 10, 2008

It has certainly made the process less passive.

TV is usually seen as passive entertainment.

However when you are thinking about it as if you are doing a critique, it becomes a different, possibly better, experience. Because you learn something even from a bad show.

sassandgroove · Sep 10, 2008

I agree a great deal of TV is passive, but when a show is written well, I think it becomes less so. Thanks for answering my question even though I didn't realize I was in a movie/tv forum.

JoNightshade · Sep 10, 2008

Sarpedon said:
It has certainly made the process less passive.

TV is usually seen as passive entertainment.

However when you are thinking about it as if you are doing a critique, it becomes a different, possibly better, experience. Because you learn something even from a bad show.

This is a really good point! I never thought of it like this.

And yes, as others have said, I do get a "buzz" when something is really well written, even if I can see the mechanics behind it. But I get even more annoyed when it's not well done.

katiemac · Sep 10, 2008

JoNightshade said:
Some people have complained that coming to AW and "learning the rules of writing" has ruined reading for them - they can't turn off the internal editor and just ENJOY a book anymore.

My reading hasn't been affected by this phenomenon, but my TV and movie viewing experiences certainly have.

It's just no fun anymore when I watch a show for 10 minutes and say "Oh, look at that foreshadowing. So and so is going to die." My most "infamous" one is the first episode of Lost (or was it the second? can't remember) where John Locke stands up, looking a bit confused. I said, "Oh yeah, there was a wheelchair back there. He used to be paralyzed." Lo and behold, some number of episodes later, the "secret" is revealed.

Anyway, TV just seems so much more predictable now. I always know what's coming.

Anyone else?

Friends hate watching movies with me because I can usually predict the outcome. I don't say anything when I watch, but afterward they'll say "Wow!" and I'll just say "meh."

Still, I don't think it has everything to do with me writing. I think it's because I watch a LOT of TV and movies and read a lot of books. Then, being able to identify plot holes or inconsistencies helps me with my writing. There's probably a bit of an overlap both ways.

So, I avoid TV and films that tend to irritate me a lot and have the most plot inconsistencies. My favorite shows have been by the same creators--Whedon and Abrams (I suspect this thread was born from the "fringe" thread), and I can usually predict them, too, because I'm used to their styles. The Fringe premiere had my wheels turning--there's a bunch of stuff I would do differently to make it appears less illogical. Still, even though I'm fairly good at predicting them, Abrams and Whedon catch me off guard enough that I'll stick with them, because surprising me is really hard to do anymore.

Any movie, TV or book that gives me a "holy shit!" moment gets extra points.

Claudia Gray · Sep 10, 2008

I think TV is better-written now that at any time in the past. I love JJ Abrams' twists too and try out anything he offers -- but shock value isn't the only thing I watch for. Right now, for instance, I think "Mad Men" is providing some of the most compelling characterizations and subtle development I've seen in anything (book, TV, movie, you name it). The sheer inventiveness of "Pushing Daisies" delights me. The stiletto-sharp wit of some of the wisecracks in "Ugly Betty" is brilliant. And so on.

kuwisdelu · Sep 10, 2008

maestrowork said:
Yes, when something is well done. I was marveling at the writing this past Oscar season, for example. No Country for Old Men, There Will be Blood, Atonement... are you kidding me? The writer's part of me was in ecstasy.

But when the movie was bad, I did say "who wrote this s***?" a lot more often.

What maestro said. I've always been very picky about what I write and what I watch. Crap is still crap. Something well-written still impresses. The only difference is now I know why that crap is crap and why what impresses me is good.

Shadow_Ferret · Sep 10, 2008

ClaudiaGray said:
I think TV is better-written now that at any time in the past. I love JJ Abrams' twists too and try out anything he offers -- but shock value isn't the only thing I watch for. Right now, for instance, I think "Mad Men" is providing some of the most compelling characterizations and subtle development I've seen in anything (book, TV, movie, you name it). The sheer inventiveness of "Pushing Daisies" delights me. The stiletto-sharp wit of some of the wisecracks in "Ugly Betty" is brilliant. And so on.

Sadly, I think the opposite is true, which is why my DVD collection is all shows from the 60s and nothing really more recent.

Do you like TV/Movies less because you're a writer?

has finally arrived

Lost in the Fog

Well begun is half done...

Soldier, Storyteller

Hoopy frood

Around

Court Jester

Fear the Death Ray

Absinthe O'Malice

Court Jester

Disgruntled Scientist

Fear the Death Ray

Sassy haircut

Arranger Of Disorder

Sassy haircut

has finally arrived

Five by Five

Revolutionize the World

Court Jester