Got a couple of questions..

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LegendaryJordan

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OK.. I am curious as to how certain things work in short stories, after reading so many of them in school, i began to think of some things.

When writing a short story, what would you recommend the length to be? eg. 3,000 - 5,000.

Where is the pay? What is the average pay for a good little short story?

What NOT to do in a short story?

Finally, is the system for getting your short published the same as a books?


Thanks!
 

blacbird

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OK.. I am curious as to how certain things work in short stories, after reading so many of them in school, i began to think of some things.

When writing a short story, what would you recommend the length to be? eg. 3,000 - 5,000.

Varies with the publication outlet. Check thee Writer's Market, for starters.

Where is the pay? What is the average pay for a good little short story?

Nothing. Zero money. Zip. Nada.

What NOT to do in a short story?

Bore the reader. If you submit it somewhere, the thing not to do is to bore the editor.

Finally, is the system for getting your short published the same as a books?

No. Do your research. Google is your friend. So is your public library.

caw
 

astonwest

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Varies with the publication outlet. Check thee Writer's Market, for starters.
I'd also suggestion Ralan and Duotrope, which are online and free.

Nothing. Zero money. Zip. Nada.
Depends on the outlet, but there are far more "for the love" markets (meaning, no pay) than there are paying (token payments) and "qualifying" (paying enough to qualify as a paying market in the eyes of organizations like SFWA and such) markets. As the pay goes up, the more critical a place will be when reviewing your work, so keep that in mind.

That last sentence is true of both short stories and novels, by the way.

If you're just getting started in short stories, I'd suggest writing some stories, polishing them, and then posting one in the SYW area of this forum for feedback, before sending it off to an outlet.
 

drachin8

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OK.. I am curious as to how certain things work in short stories, after reading so many of them in school, i began to think of some things.

When writing a short story, what would you recommend the length to be? eg. 3,000 - 5,000.

What you will hear most often is that a short story must be as long as it is. I know that sounds a bit stupid on first glance, but essentially, when you are writing a short story, every piece should add something important to the whole. No wasted space. No dawdling. Your best bet for getting an idea of your particular genre's "sweet-spot" lengths where a sale is a touch easier would be to check out www.duotrope.com, click on your genre, sort by pay, and click on all the top tier magazines and see what they suggest for their lengths accepted. In the end, though, your story will find its own length.


Where is the pay? What is the average pay for a good little short story?

In my genre, Sci-Fi/Fantasy, you won't be making a living off the pay. Pro-rates tend to hover around 5-7 cents per word (with a few higher), semi-pro rates around 1-2 cents per word (with a few higher). I suspect most of the other genres are similar with a handful of magazines that pay extremely sweet rates but are hideously difficult to get published in.


What NOT to do in a short story?

Don't ramble. Make it interesting. What is it about the short stories you have read that has kept your attention? What about them has lost your attention? Outside of not boring the reader, short stories can be great places to experiment with styles that will not hold up in a lengthier novel. So just have fun with your writing.


Finally, is the system for getting your short published the same as a books?

Not quite. In the short story world, you submit your stories to each market, wait for a response, and then submit to a new market if that response is rejection. And there will generally be a lot of rejection. For example, according to my spreadsheet, my stories which have found a home have averaged about 6 rejections each before finding that home. Which doesn't speak for the stories I've had to retire for submission because they are so bad. But my writing has grown over time, so I expect fewer total rejections on my more recent stories than on my older ones, some of which I have finally retired from submission after realizing they are rather hideous beasts themselves. So you submit, wait, submit again, wait, and during all of that write more short stories so you don't go bonkers waiting on one response.


If you decide to try your hand at short stories, when you have finished your first draft and edited it as much as you can, try posting it in SYW, and the gang in there will help you examine where your writing can improve. I definitely suggest doing as much as you can personally to your story before posting it for others, though, because critiquing takes a lot of time out of people, so it is not polite to waste their time commenting on things you already know are "wrong".

Most of all, if you are going to write some short stories, have fun with them.


:)

-Michelle
 

eqb

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When writing a short story, what would you recommend the length to be? eg. 3,000 - 5,000.

Write the story as long as it needs to be. Worry about length after you've finished, because that's when markets come into play.

That said, it's generally easier for a new writer to break into markets with stories 5K and under.

Where is the pay? What is the average pay for a good little short story?
Pay rate depends on the market. Lots of small press zines pay a token payment or in copies only. Semi-pro markets pay a couple cents/word. Pro magazines might pay 5 cents or more for new writers, much higher rates for established pros.

What NOT to do in a short story?
Don't lose focus.

Finally, is the system for getting your short published the same as a books?
The parts that are the same: Read the market guides to find the right publications for your work. Read and *follow* the submission guidelines. Do not sim-sub unless the markets explicitly say it's okay.

The parts that are different: Submit the whole story. Do not summarize the story in your cover letter. No agent needed.
 

dgiharris

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When writing a short story, what would you recommend the length to be? eg. 3,000 - 5,000.

As long as the story needs to be and not a word more. The biggest problem people have with this is writing about tangeant points or red-herrings that really have nothing to do with the 'real' story. Short stories require laser like focus on the 'real' story. Can't meander.

Where is the pay? What is the average pay for a good little short story?
Depends on your market. Bigger the market, more prestigious the mag, better the pay (usually). 'pro rates' are basically 10 cents per word and higher, semi-pro rates are 3c - 9cents per word. You won't get rich writing them, but IMO what they will done is hone your skills and build your resume and experience.

But ANY publication is worth being proud of and is a great teaching and learning aid.

What NOT to do in a short story?
writing unengaging beginnings. A short story MUST captivate the reader from the very first sentence. If it doesn't do that, then the editor will never get to that brilliant ending
Finally, is the system for getting your short published the same as a books?

Not sure, I only have 3 pubs and no book pubs. But the shorts are invaluable teaching tool about the 'real' writing world.

www.duotrope.com is invaluable, check it out, worth it's weight in cyber gold.


good luck

Mel...
 
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dpaterso

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Where is the pay? What is the average pay for a good little short story?
Nothing. Zero money. Zip. Nada.
...Took me a moment to see the truth in this answer.

Yes, the average pay for a short story -- good, little or otherwise -- is indeed zip. :)

Tho' if the story's good enough for one of the semi-pro magazines paying 6¢ a word or more, the pay can be slightly more than zip.

-Derek
 

Phot's Moll

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'Depends on the market' probably covers it all!

Length can be anything from 50 words up to about 50,000 (sometimes longer ones are referred to as novellas)

Pay (assuming it's accepted, which many aren't) can be anything from nothing to thousands of dollars.

What you shouldn't do is send a story that's not suitable. Something that's perfect for a children's magazine won't do so well in a lad's mag for example.

To get the work published, all you have to do is send the right story, to the right market at the right time - and then get lucky.
 

Ken

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...and, of course, don't try tackling too much in a short story. Take Jack London's "To Build A Fire." The MC falls through the ice while walking on a riverbed in Alaska. Scrambling out he builds a fire, failing to take note of a mound of snow on an overhanging branch, which falls down, puts out his fire, and seals his fate.

That's the whole extent of the action, but accompanied by lots of details that make the scene come alive. So just settle on something simple, at first. Good luck.
 

heatheringemar

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When writing a short story, what would you recommend the length to be? eg. 3,000 - 5,000.

Short stories range from under 500 words to roughly 7500 words. From there up to 17500 is technically in the novelette range, but they're still short stories. ;)

Where is the pay? What is the average pay for a good little short story?

When it comes to lit mags, everyone here has got it on the nose. There are far more no-pay markets (your "payment" is the gratification of seeing it in print) or author-copy markets (magazine pays you in copies) than there are paying (dinero) markets.

If you want to think outside the box, you could try the ebook market. There are quite a few publishers that will take short stories and pay royalties. The only thing there is, you've got to be prepared to read and understand a publishing contract as if you were a novelist. And, it can take a while before you see any kind of royalties from sales since while ebooks are gaining in popularity, they are still far from being in the mass market.

What NOT to do in a short story?

I think Blacbird hit it on the head. Do NOT, EVER, bore the reader. A big no-no. In a short story at most you've got one paragraph, usually even less than that to hook the reader. You've got to be to the point. Concise. Exciting. And in a very short amount of time.

Finally, is the system for getting your short published the same as a books?

Agents do not look at short stories unless you have a book-length collection of them, and then to my understanding, many agents are rather hesitant to look at them even then. Collections just don't have the selling power that novels do.

However, if you go the ebook route, that is kind of similar to publishing an actual book, since you have to submit, and then when you get an acceptance, you have to read over the contract and decide whether to take it or not. Since agents do not look at short stories generally, I do not recommend this venue if you aren't comfortable reading and understanding contracts.
 

heatheringemar

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The word is that the Amazon Shorts program is really NOT good for the writer.... it is, however VERY good for Amazon.....

Check the Bewares & Background Check forum for more. There's a thread on it somewhere in there.
 

dgiharris

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...and, of course, don't try tackling too much in a short story. Take Jack London's "To Build A Fire." The MC falls through the ice while walking on a riverbed in Alaska. Scrambling out he builds a fire, failing to take note of a mound of snow on an overhanging branch, which falls down, puts out his fire, and seals his fate.

That's the whole extent of the action, but accompanied by lots of details that make the scene come alive. So just settle on something simple, at first. Good luck.


Careful,

I agree in principle with anis, but the semantic might be a bit off. It's not so much that you have to write on something simple, its moreso that you need laser like focus on what the true story is. And that true story must be the real core absolutely essential thing you are writing about. So, all those cool tangeant ideas that you can let run amook in a book, you don't have that luxury/leeway in a short story.

But there are complex short stories and detialed short stories, but every word supports that core story.

that is my amendment to anis, hope he agrees.

Mel...
 
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