Really newb grammar question - capping nouns

TheAntar · Sep 3, 2008

Sorry I did a few google searches to mixed results I'm quite confused.

Internal dialogue:

"What did you do that for, girl?"

Do I capitalize the G?

"Excuse me, Sir?"

Sir or sir?

"Hi Dad," he said, capitalizing the D. Why would that D be capitalized (Dad is a name here, as 'sir' and 'girl' were in the other two) if the others aren't?

Sorry for the question, but as I said I've found results answering it both ways and am worried about getting it correct.

Thanks!

CynicalRyan · Sep 3, 2008

AFAIK, only 'proper nouns' and place names and things related to that are capitalized in English. I.e. Brussels, London, Frenchmen or James, but not girl, car, or country. Unless at the beginning of a sentence.

Wikipedia on Capitalization could help.

Appalachian Writer · Sep 3, 2008

I understand your confusion. The "D" in "Hi, Dad" is capitalized because dad, in this case, is used in the same way as is a proper name. English is a very confusing language. Yes, Sir? "yes sir"? I'll look it up in one of my grammar books and get back to you.

FennelGiraffe · Sep 4, 2008

It's not entirely logical. Certain types of words are capitalized when used as if they were names, but others aren't.

When used as direct address,

- Capitalize titles

Welcome to our city, Governor.
Here's the report you wanted, Captain.
Will she make it, Doctor?

- Capitalize family relationships

Happy birthday, Dad!
I want to talk to you right now, Son.

- Capitalize proper names (duh!)

Which one do you prefer, Mary?

- Do not capitalize other types of words

Here's the report you wanted, sir.
Come here, girl.
Get out of there, shithead.

TheAntar · Sep 4, 2008

FennelGiraffe said:
It's not entirely logical. Certain types of words are capitalized when used as if they were names, but others aren't.

When used as direct address,
- Capitalize titles
Welcome to our city, Governor.

Here's the report you wanted, Captain.

Will she make it, Doctor?

- Capitalize family relationships
Happy birthday, Dad!

I want to talk to you right now, Son.

- Capitalize proper names (duh!)
Which one do you prefer, Mary?

- Do not capitalize other types of words
Here's the report you wanted, sir.

Come here, girl.

Get out of there, shithead.

Thanks. This makes me feel less stupid for not knowing it, cause it seems rather complex!

qwerty · Sep 4, 2008

This is a difficult one, and I’m not sure there is a hard and fast answer.

The way I see it is, Dad, Mum, Gran, Auntie etc are the actual personal name a person calls those people, so yes, when they are being addressed, those titles are proper nouns. But when they are being talked about, they are not. For example: My dad said no. My mum is a good cook. My aunt is nuts.

Other forms of address, such as darling (pass the salt, darling) mate (let’s go for a drink, mate) I see as not proper nouns because they aren’t actually the title those people are known by.

The only way I can explain why I use a capital letter for Sir or Madam is because I see those as a formal way of addressing someone you are not on familiar terms with. Therefore, Sir and Madam become a formal title by which you address those people.

I only hope this hasn’t confused you even more.

TheAntar · Sep 4, 2008

qwerty said:
This is a difficult one, and I’m not sure there is a hard and fast answer.

The way I see it is, Dad, Mum, Gran, Auntie etc are the actual personal name a person calls those people, so yes, when they are being addressed, those titles are proper nouns. But when they are being talked about, they are not. For example: My dad said no. My mum is a good cook. My aunt is nuts.

Other forms of address, such as darling (pass the salt, darling) mate (let’s go for a drink, mate) I see as not proper nouns because they aren’t actually the title those people are known by.

The only way I can explain why I use a capital letter for Sir or Madam is because I see those as a formal way of addressing someone you are not on familiar terms with. Therefore, Sir and Madam become a formal title by which you address those people.

I only hope this hasn’t confused you even more.

Wait, so if the man says, "Hello there, Sir, may I take your coat?" then I would use a capital S?

But with the word lady, as in, "Hey lady, take off your pants," I'd go with a lower-case L?

Bleh. Why is this so weird, lol...

qwerty · Sep 4, 2008

TheAntar said:
Wait, so if the man says, "Hello there, Sir, may I take your coat?" then I would use a capital S?

You would if you believed me. You wouldn't if you believed TheAntar's way is correct. Maybe one is right and the other is wrong, or maybe there isn't a cast-in-stone rule.

Two of us are in agreement on lower case for girl, so that's a good start for lady. Besides which, I reckon a "lady" who would take down her pants ain't no proper lady, so doesn't warrant the dignity of a capitalized proper noun.

Why is this so weird? Dunno, except it's the beep English language.

dpaterso · Sep 4, 2008

I wouldn't capitalize Sir or Lady or Madam in these examples.

Different if you're writing a letter that starts, "Dear Sir or Madam,"

-Derek

TheAntar · Sep 4, 2008

qwerty said:
if you believed TheAntar's way is correct. Maybe one is right and the other is wrong

I don't have a way, I'm asking the question! lol. I know what you meant though.

Why is this so weird? Dunno, except it's the beep English language.

Because it's probably the first time I've tried to solve a grammatical problem and have failed to do so with google in less than 30 seconds.

qwerty · Sep 4, 2008

Sorry, sorry, sorry! I should have said FennelGiraffe's way.

I write with concentration, but I don't read so well.

FennelGiraffe · Sep 4, 2008

TheAntar said:
Thanks. This makes me feel less stupid for not knowing it, cause it seems rather complex!

LOL! I've only recently gotten it clear myself. I kept finding the first three rules, and wondered why they didn't cover all the possibilities. It finally sank in that they were listed under 'When to Capitalize', so everything not mentioned fell under the default of not being capitalized.

joliehale · Sep 5, 2008

I think FennelGiraffe gave a good answer. I'll just add one thing: capitalizing words of courtesy such as "sir" and "ma'am/madam" seems like an archaic form to me. It's not necessarily incorrect to capitalize them, but I don't see it done much any more in published writing. It's like how a few hundred years ago, people used to capitalize words, especially nouns, in a seemingly random fashion.

veronie · Sep 5, 2008

Most people still capitalize words in random fashion.

At the newspaper, we receive community briefs turned in by random people in our community, and the rule they tend to follow is to capitalize every word that seems important to them.

Now, if only I could find out whether emoticons can serve as punctuation, or does the sentence above need a period after fashion? (I think it does, so I put one.)

Really newb grammar question - capping nouns

TheAntar

CynicalRyan

Appalachian Writer

Somewhere in the hills....

FennelGiraffe

It's green they say

TheAntar

qwerty

exiled Brit

TheAntar

qwerty

exiled Brit

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

TheAntar

qwerty

exiled Brit

FennelGiraffe

It's green they say

joliehale

veronie

practical experience, FTW