Devil's advocate

[Nateskate]

I have one friend who hasn't read my story. But I think he's intent on saving me from overly optomistic expectations. Do you have any devil's advocates in your life, who want to save you from embarrassing yourself or getting your hopes up?

"What if your book doesn't sell?"

Well frankly, if the world thinks my story absolutely sucks, I'll survive. I realize that the best we can do is give it our best, and take steps as they come. If it needs a book doctor, we either go that route, or back to the drawing board. If it's a great story, and we just don't have the writing chops, there's always paying a ghost writer to take your concept, or co-write with someone who has great prose.

He talked about self-publishing, and I frankly admited, "I stink at hawking things. If my goal is to be read, then I'd rather just find a way to build my own web-site and post the story free, and create links to places people would see the story, in hopes of some people enjoying it."

It's one thing to give someone positive advice to help them. That's what most people here are doing. And even if I happened to be a happily self-deluded writer, thinking my garbage smelled like perfume, it's okay for a concerned person to somewhat bring me back to reality. However, it's another to be a devil's advocate who feels compelled to constantly tell you every worst case scenario to save you from getting your hopes up. He's a great guy, and I know he means well; but I'm hoping for the best and pushing on.

How about you? Any flies in the ointment?

[azbikergirl]

My mom and my best friend are like that with pretty much everything with their negative, shoot-it-down-before-it-has-a-chance reactions. However, my mom has so much belief in me as a writer, that she's gone off the deep end with delusions that I'll be the next JK Rowling. I find myself trying to bring her back down to earth!

[CalicoBean]

He talked about self-publishing, and I frankly admited, "I stink at hawking things. If my goal is to be read, then I'd rather just find a way to build my own web-site and post the story free, and create links to places people would see the story, in hopes of some people enjoying it."

Good response Nate.

My experience is more like azbikergirl's. I have to try to convince the loved ones in my life how hard it is to publish fiction, much less make money at it. Last summer one of my nieces (9 yrs old) asked me what the book is about. I gave her a brief summary. Her response? "Wow, we're gonna be famous!" I was struck by the "we." :) But seriously, it makes me squirm when family members assume I will be published and make lots of money.

[pepperlandgirl]

I have a professor who makes it a point to tell me all the reasons why I'll fail at my hopes and dreams, from grad school to writing to teaching to publishing to...well...fill in the blank.

He's the same professor who tried to arrange a paid reading for me at the school when he heard Liquid Silver was publishing my first book, bought the first copy of my self-published book, and pulled what strings he could to get me considered at another grad school.

I can't sort that man out.

[black winged fighter]

Though I believe in my writing, sometimes I'm my own worst-case-scenario-producer. *shrugs* It comes with the job, I guess.

So far, I've been luckly in that the people who know I write support me. But, like CalicoBean, sometimes my friends' enthusiasm scares me. One of my sweetest friends read a piece of my work and instantly claimed that I would be published without a doubt.

Bear in mind, the work was an unfinished first draft that I had taken a break from, because I believed that my prose and story needed drastic work. She only got to read it because I would not let my current WIP near anyone, and she'd been clamoring for something to read. How can I know she wasn't just trying to spare my feelings? I just know, in a way I can't explain.

*sighs* Sometimes overly optimistic people are as dispiriting as automatic nay-sayers.

[Note On]

My experience is that publication shuts up 95% of these people.

4% more won't shut up until you quit your day job.

The last 1% are reviewers.

[Liam Jackson]

My experience is that publication shuts up 95% of these people.

4% more won't shut up until you quit your day job.

The last 1% are reviewers.
Note, that's priceless.

I've been at both ends of the spectrum. Early on it was, "It's too difficult for a no-name to get into the business" or "Leave novel writing to the serious writers". (Whatever the hell that was supposed to mean.)

Now, it's "Why are you still working? Jeeze, quit the stinkin' day job and take one of those year-long cruises."

[reph]

I don't need a devil's advocate. I can call up memories of my mother any time. The old witch had a remarkable talent for imagining downsides. Whatever I did or planned to do inspired her to generate arguments against it: I'd hurt myself, it'd cost too much, I didn't know how, it'd make a mess, they'd laugh at me, I'd be ostracized. I now recognize that all those discouraging words came from the negativity of her depression.

[Sarita]

I don't need a devil's advocate. I can call up memories of my mother any time. The old witch had a remarkable talent for imagining downsides. Whatever I did or planned to do inspired her to generate arguments against it: I'd hurt myself, it'd cost too much, I didn't know how, it'd make a mess, they'd laugh at me, I'd be ostracized. I now recognize that all those discouraging words came from the negativity of her depression.
Yes, it's my mother too. "Why would you want to quit your job to go back to school? You want to dig up bones? Who do you think you are, Indiana Jones? Your life wont be like that, you know! What on earth could you be writing?" My father, on the other hand, saved the first book I wrote (when I was 6 yrs old), and keeps it out on his desk as a reminder for me; he recently asked me to collaborate with him on a Viet Nam Memoir, researches little tidbits about Peru that I can't find elsewhere. It's like having my own lobbyist. :)

[KTC]

He's the same professor who tried to arrange a paid reading for me at the school when he heard Liquid Silver was publishing my first book, bought the first copy of my self-published book, and pulled what strings he could to get me considered at another grad school.

I can't sort that man out.


Maybe he's a man who knows you have talent and who knows that some people with talent don't always get their due. Maybe he knows that you have what it takes but that that's not all you need. It sounds like he is someone who believes fully in your talents and wants you to make it but also wants to keep reminding you of the impossible odds. It sounds like he's a man you are lucky to have on your side!

[Spookster]

My in-laws are negative about everything I mention. So, I've learned to just shut up. Everything from school to writing to raising my children, I've been told I couldn't do it or I'm doing it wrong. It's just the way they are, and I ignore the negative vibes now. I'd rather try and fail than not try and never know what could have been.

[maestrowork]

There are a few. My mom, of course, but she's just worried that I'd die homeless. My dad, on the other hand, asked his author friend about how to go about it. They're both supportive, but my mom is just more cautious. There are a few friends who are negativer about anything they don't quite understand, and some who say things like "don't quit your day job." I usually don't listen. I'm a big silly optimist.

[Nateskate]

My mom and my best friend are like that with pretty much everything with their negative, shoot-it-down-before-it-has-a-chance reactions. However, my mom has so much belief in me as a writer, that she's gone off the deep end with delusions that I'll be the next JK Rowling. I find myself trying to bring her back down to earth!

I watched that movie Sideways, where one character is a writer whose stories never get bought. I can picture the people in my life beginning to doubt me. "How's the story coming?" "Oh, you are still---chuckles behind my back---working on it!"

I think their minds are convinced that if I were legit, this would have already been in Barnes and Nobles. Yet, I haven't even submitted it. They picture a mad scientist in the basement. Or Russel Crow, in a Beautiful Mind, Nate in an abandoned building, chapters hanging by strings or taped to the walls, and invisible meetings with publishers.

Not really. Some people really believe in me, and they are pretty steadfast, which encourages me. But frankly, I thought I'd be published by now, and I'm feeling a little OCD with my re-writes. But the sobering thing to me is that I've seen writers who suck that are published. It's the great writers that still push me, because when I look at their work, I realize how far I have to go.

[Nateskate]

I have a professor who makes it a point to tell me all the reasons why I'll fail at my hopes and dreams, from grad school to writing to teaching to publishing to...well...fill in the blank.

He's the same professor who tried to arrange a paid reading for me at the school when he heard Liquid Silver was publishing my first book, bought the first copy of my self-published book, and pulled what strings he could to get me considered at another grad school.

I can't sort that man out.

People are fickle. The same ones who pull you back will want to ride your wave when you succeed. "I taught him everything he knows...now he has to honor before the college president..." Nah, maybe he's better than that. But anyone who tells you "you'll never make it," sounds jaded. Maybe they just doubt themselves, because they tried and failed.

[Nateskate]

Note, that's priceless.

I've been at both ends of the spectrum. Early on it was, "It's too difficult for a no-name to get into the business" or "Leave novel writing to the serious writers". (Whatever the hell that was supposed to mean.)

Now, it's "Why are you still working? Jeeze, quit the stinkin' day job and take one of those year-long cruises."

Frankly, I'm already working on my Liam Jackson stories, like how we used to be best mates...cause I knew he'd to be famous some day. "What was the name of that bar we used to hang out at, tossing around story ideas, before a round of darts?"

I'm just kidding, obviously. But that's the way people are. If you are struggling, they'll give you the "who does he think he is" stare. Then if you make it, they act like they knew it all along.

[maestrowork]

Not my mom. She's still asking, "Are you going to find a job?"

:D

[Nateskate]

Yes, it's my mother too. "Why would you want to quit your job to go back to school? You want to dig up bones? Who do you think you are, Indiana Jones? Your life wont be like that, you know! What on earth could you be writing?" My father, on the other hand, saved the first book I wrote (when I was 6 yrs old), and keeps it out on his desk as a reminder for me; he recently asked me to collaborate with him on a Viet Nam Memoir, researches little tidbits about Peru that I can't find elsewhere. It's like having my own lobbyist. :)

Woman, you are just too cool. You went back to school to be an Archeaologist? Or was it forensic scientist? Paleontologist (See, I can't even spell half these things)

[Sarita]

Woman, you are just too cool. You went back to school to be an Archeaologist?
hehe, thanks Nate! Yeah, archaeologist with a minor in linguistics. I'm just taking a few classes by correspondence now, but will start up full time in the summer. I can't wait.

[cwfgal]

Thanks to my obstinant nature, whenever someone tells me how long the odds are for my success, I become even more determined to try to get there. If I don't succeed at least I know I tried, and if I do succeed, well, that satisfaction is hard to beat.

When it comes to writing I've had far more encouragement from folks than naysaying. I'm probably the biggest pessimist of anyone I know.

Beth

[Nateskate]

hehe, thanks Nate! Yeah, archaeologist with a minor in linguistics. I'm just taking a few classes by correspondence now, but will start up full time in the summer. I can't wait.

Well if my series ever takes off, it's nice knowing someone who knows the lingo. I already have parts of the follow-up written, which take place in modern times. It begins with an archaeologist trying to figure out why someone's shooting at him.

They are in the crossfires of religious and political wars, and uncover secrets of the fall of prior civilizations, which become pivotal in saving human kind from an emerging evil that threatens to destroy the world.

[Spookster]

They are in the crossfires of religious and political wars, and uncover secrets of the fall of prior civilizations, which become pivotal in saving human kind from an emerging evil that threatens to destroy the world.

Ooooh. Sounds interesting!

Sara. Good luck in school. I'm going back to college this summer, too. Not for anything as interesting as Archeology, though. I'm shooting for Trauma RN.

[Christine N.]

Ooh, now I have someone to pump in case i need archaeological information. The backstory character in my WIP series (we never meet him, he died years ago) was an archaeologist who dug up a weird mystical artifacts, among other things. I haven't had to use any real arch. information yet, but I know who to come to if I do! LOL

Oh, and the question - my dad's sister. She's got the graduate degree, she's a librarian. So no one can be better than her. I love her to death, don't get me wrong, but when I told her I had requests to read from three publishers, she looked at me like I had grown another head. "None of them asked for MONEY, did they?" Like I'm an idiot. Yeah, she's never really read anything of mine, but she gave an opinion.

[brinkett]

I love her to death, don't get me wrong, but when I told her I had requests to read from three publishers, she looked at me like I had grown another head. "None of them asked for MONEY, did they?" Like I'm an idiot.
:roll:

What is it about people who want to pour cold water over everything? I know it says more about them than anything, but still...

Reph: we must have been separated at birth.

[Sarita]

Yeah, y'all. Hit me up when you need info! I'm not too deep into my major yet, but I expect to be within a semester or 2. Triceretops knows a bunch, too and he's very helpful. :)

[Maryn]

Boy, this throw-cold-water-on-you thread has been a count-your-blessings eye-opener for me. (Yeah, I picked up a basket of hyphens yesterday. Go ahead, take a handful.) The most discouraging reaction I ever got was when a play of mine was produced and Mr. Maryn and I went to see it. "You wrote that?" he asked. What, did he think I'd been hunched over the keyboard all this time playing spider solitaire?

My adult daughter comes in second--she encourages me to keep writing because I enjoy it (which I do), not because I might sell it. I read a subtext that she doesn't think I can or will, and my past sales, all smallish, don't count.

Maryn, grateful not to hear a discouraging word, even though the skies are cloudy all day

[Ella]

hehe, thanks Nate! Yeah, archaeologist with a minor in linguistics. I'm just taking a few classes by correspondence now, but will start up full time in the summer. I can't wait.

Heyy, good for you! In one of my parallel lives, that's what I'M doing. I'm such a nutball that I even gave my daughter an Ancient Egyptian name (shortened to not be weird.) I took Arch in University, and will one day go back.

[Lenora Rose]

I'm kinda like Maryn -- I get encouragement for the most part, not doomsaying. Fortunately, some of it is realistic encouragement. Nobody thinks I'm going to be J.K. Rowling, but those who know mostly think it sounds like an interesting sideline.

It helps to some degree that I find it hard to talk about my stories to just anyone, so I can't get drive-by sneers at the plot.

Saritam8, that sounds so cool. Good luck with your return to university!

[black winged fighter]

Thanks to my obstinant nature, whenever someone tells me how long the odds are for my success, I become even more determined to try to get there.

Ha, that reminds me: I went to a party a long time ago, and someone was doing tarot card reading. So I asked a few questions, and it was mostly right. Then I asked if I would ever be published, and the reader told me, "I'm sorry, but no."
It took less than five seconds for me to decide to prove her and the cards wrong. *grins* Not too long ago, a few short stories helped me achieve that goal, and I'm still working on expanding upon that success.

[Nateskate]

Boy, this throw-cold-water-on-you thread has been a count-your-blessings eye-opener for me. (Yeah, I picked up a basket of hyphens yesterday. Go ahead, take a handful.) The most discouraging reaction I ever got was when a play of mine was produced and Mr. Maryn and I went to see it. "You wrote that?" he asked. What, did he think I'd been hunched over the keyboard all this time playing spider solitaire?

My adult daughter comes in second--she encourages me to keep writing because I enjoy it (which I do), not because I might sell it. I read a subtext that she doesn't think I can or will, and my past sales, all smallish, don't count.

Maryn, grateful not to hear a discouraging word, even though the skies are cloudy all day

Yeah, some people's devil's advocates are actually ghosts from childhood, meaning some inadequate person's prognostications of a failed life.

[Vipersniper]

:Guitar: To be honest before I found out that no matter what I wrote my family members would be the ones to nay say everything and I waited until my own mother bless her soul died to write my first book. I had written articles to magazines and had them published with her helpful advice. But yes I think there are the ones you think that are closest to you that put down what you do. So been there, and done that and sure don't want to go back again.

[Elincoln]

I live with mine. My husband's supportive of my writing, but only as a hobby and not serious when it comes to getting published. He thinks I'll make it...in about ten years! I just nod and smile, completely ignoring him. And I come here for added support.

And Nate, when the book is done, can I read it? Sounds very interesting. Put me down as a potential buyer.

-Elaine

[Nateskate]

:Guitar: To be honest before I found out that no matter what I wrote my family members would be the ones to nay say everything and I waited until my own mother bless her soul died to write my first book. I had written articles to magazines and had them published with her helpful advice. But yes I think there are the ones you think that are closest to you that put down what you do. So been there, and done that and sure don't want to go back again.

Wow, now that meant she had a tremendous impact on your life. I'm sure countless others felt the same. I had some in my life, and relate to an extent, except I was a stubborn fighter.

Naysaying- as a "theme" in life, generally has nothing to do with the one they say "Nay" to, but everything to do with the "Nayer". Normally, it's born out of their own screwdupidness, and need for validation. If everyone around them sucks at everything, they feel better about themselves. So they tend to become fault finders, and dismiss the accomplishments of those around them, while accentuating the failings.

Extreme consistant negativity has lasting effects on people. It's like getting branded "reject; defective..." Some fighters will become corporate presidents or something else extremely successful, but even so have to deal with issues.

You saw that with David Cassidy and his dad. His father was jealous and demeaned David. Despite the guy being extremely successful, he couldn't relax and enjoy the ride, at least while he was young.

In fact, you'll find a lot of walking wounded in Hollywood, and Modeling, who were driven, but never allowed to feel like they could rest, "I've finally made it."

[Nateskate]

I live with mine. My husband's supportive of my writing, but only as a hobby and not serious when it comes to getting published. He thinks I'll make it...in about ten years! I just nod and smile, completely ignoring him. And I come here for added support.

And Nate, when the book is done, can I read it? Sounds very interesting. Put me down as a potential buyer.

-Elaine

LOL, thanks for the support. I think I should make a list of people who've said that and hand it to the agent. Maybe that would sway their choices.

I've finished (my part) on book one. Before I start submitting it I'm planning to have someone with editing experience give it a once over. And if they don't find a ton of problems, then I go agent shopping.

Fortunately, I'll have book two pretty close to finished by then. Book two is very exciting, but it's probably the hardest one to write. In a sense, it's because it's somewhat the reverse of Lord of the Rings. Tolkien has this fellowship, and they start out together, and spread out all over the place.

Book one is very much like following a combination of Greek Mythology and the Old Testament with catastrophic events, heroes and a world filled with a wide variety of beings both endearing and malevolent. It works towards a grand ending, but all the same, the whole intent is to set up the world for book two, which takes place generations later. It's importance is that it establishes how all these races are formed. You have two interacting realms, and each of them acts independenly. The key races are not stagnant, in that they end up branching off into sub-species if you will, which adds texture in the same way that having Elves, Dwarves, Humans and Hobbits interacting makes another story more interesting.

Book two is really the start of the origional story. You now have these interesting races, and a simmering invisible war taking place. The biggest change I made to that story, is that it now begins with the invisible kingdoms preparing to resume their battle.

Then suddenly you are brought back to the ignorant happy go lucky 15 year old who becomes the protagonist. This part of the story is more Arthurian Fable. You have these people spread all over the place, and wonder how they connect. In book three, I start bringing them all together.

Book two's redeeming grace is that the characters are endearing and the book is full of action. You've got giants, and an assortment of mythical creatures. Then something happens that suddenly makes the fifteen year old relevent, and an invisible being sees him as a threat, and sets every creature in the forest to kill him. (Teaser)

Book three is where people will go- Ah, now I see! A lot of things make more sense. Twists and turns. Who's really the good guy here? Who is going to fall in love with whom? This is where I absolutely was torn, because I wanted a certain reality where things don't always turn out like you'd think. So, you have this, "You win some, you lose some," endings in terms of the romances in the book. The reader won't know the answers to the romatic questions till book four, or perhaps book five, depending how the final split of chapters impacts the length of the series.

[NeuroFizz]

Hey, guys. Count your blessings. I'd give anything to have my parents back to tell me I won't be able to do this or that. In retrospect, some of their negativity may have been misplaced (misguided) motivation. I'd give anything to have them read my stories. I'd give anything to have them see their two newest grandchildren. And I have so many questions I'd like to ask them. Family members can be a pain, but having them usually beats the alternative. Tune them out, but don't turn them out. Tomorrow they may not be around.

[reph]

Naysaying- as a "theme" in life, generally has...everything to do with the "Nayer". Normally, it's born out of their own screwdupidness, and need for validation. If everyone around them sucks at everything, they feel better about themselves. So they tend to become fault finders....
And sometimes, in the case of parents, it's overprotectiveness speaking, or normal protectiveness, and sometimes other things. Some people tend to reject ideas without stopping to evaluate them, whether or not validation is involved. So "Mom, I want to write a story" gets trashed along with "Honey, let's try that new restaurant across town." One wonders how they ever got married.

[Nateskate]

Hey, guys. Count your blessings. I'd give anything to have my parents back to tell me I won't be able to do this or that. In retrospect, some of their negativity may have been misplaced (misguided) motivation. I'd give anything to have them read my stories. I'd give anything to have them see their two newest grandchildren. And I have so many questions I'd like to ask them. Family members can be a pain, but having them usually beats the alternative. Tune them out, but don't turn them out. Tomorrow they may not be around.

I'm sorry to hear your parents missed out on all that. That is sad. And I really do realize what you feel is the right thing.

At my father's funeral, I heard many people expressing the same sentiments. I wish I could say the same. It's not that I didn't want to have a relationship with the man. I fought hard my entire life to have a relationship with the man, and to have "that talk". It just never materialized. My youngest brother refused to go to his funeral. My oldest brother begged me to take him to see him on his death bed, because he didn't have the means, and they hadn't spoken in fifteen years. I drove four hours to pick up my brother, and paid to fly with him to see my father. My father died five minutes before we got to the room. The night before, I encouraged my older brother to call him, while he was still alive, and my father refused to talk to him.

It's sad, but I wish I could feel what you feel for your father. I've tried hard to feel that way.

[Nateskate]

And sometimes, in the case of parents, it's overprotectiveness speaking, or normal protectiveness, and sometimes other things. Some people tend to reject ideas without stopping to evaluate them, whether or not validation is involved. So "Mom, I want to write a story" gets trashed along with "Honey, let's try that new restaurant across town." One wonders how they ever got married.


LOL, I think we could do a thousand threads on parents.

You are right. Sometimes that is the case. Other times you really have wounded parents who simply aren't quite capable of being the parents a child needs. Either way, it's not good to blame them. The best you can do is eventually develope some sympathy and empathy or understanding.

[SeanDSchaffer]

My Aunt and my Grandmother are both like that with me. I try to take it with a grain of salt, but it is difficult for me nonetheless, to have to handle someone snuffing out my little glimmer of hope the moment it comes out of my mouth.

My Aunt and my Grandmother both consider themselves realists, and I suppose there's a place for that in the world. They tell me they're trying to 'prepare me' for the heartbreaks. But they also treat me, IMO, like a ten-year-old boy that doesn't know any better; they act like I don't see anything possibly going wrong in the writing business.

I try to tell them I've been studying this business and working at it for more than twenty years, and they don't seem to hear me. I know they want the best for me, just like most any member of my family wants. But I think their 'Devil's advocate' attitudes are the most destructive to my self-esteem as a writer, as compared with those of any other members of my family.

[Sarita]

Sean, did you show them your signature? :) You were an honourable mention, after all!

[Christine N.]

I think my mom would have adored my book. She was a big lit. fan. Where do you think I get my pinache? LOL Seriously, I get my love of fantasy from her.

My parents never said I couldn't do it. They always said "go for it." My dad still does.

[Nateskate]

My Aunt and my Grandmother are both like that with me. I try to take it with a grain of salt, but it is difficult for me nonetheless, to have to handle someone snuffing out my little glimmer of hope the moment it comes out of my mouth.

My Aunt and my Grandmother both consider themselves realists, and I suppose there's a place for that in the world. They tell me they're trying to 'prepare me' for the heartbreaks. But they also treat me, IMO, like a ten-year-old boy that doesn't know any better; they act like I don't see anything possibly going wrong in the writing business.

I try to tell them I've been studying this business and working at it for more than twenty years, and they don't seem to hear me. I know they want the best for me, just like most any member of my family wants. But I think their 'Devil's advocate' attitudes are the most destructive to my self-esteem as a writer, as compared with those of any other members of my family.

If you look at parenting, and take two extremes, overly critical and overly supportive, you'll rarely ever find a negative consequence of being overly supportive, but you'll rarely "not" find a negative consequence to being overly critical/negative. That includes "preparing someone for the hard knocks" "I had to toughen you up by making you feel like a failure!"

Success in life often requires taking chances, and that requires confidence. If you look at all the candidates on the Apprentice, they aren't all the sharpest tools in the shed, but they have one thing in common, an over-abundance of confidence. The show exposes the fact that these people "are" successful in real life. If they weren't they wouldn't be on the show. But it also exposes they really aren't that special in terms of overall intelligence...etc.

But just watch them all and their management skills, "Here, I know how to do that..." Well, even though they fail tasks, they still succeeded in life. So parents need to "stop" preparing people for the hardships of life, and instead make the home an Oasis where you find someone who believes in you.

It sounds like you've done all the right things, and you are level headed.

[SeanDSchaffer]

Thank you both for the compliments; I highly appreciate them.

[pianoman5]

I have a professor who makes it a point to tell me all the reasons why I'll fail at my hopes and dreams, from grad school to writing to teaching to publishing to...well...fill in the blank.

He's the same professor who tried to arrange a paid reading for me at the school when he heard Liquid Silver was publishing my first book, bought the first copy of my self-published book, and pulled what strings he could to get me considered at another grad school.

I can't sort that man out.

Perhaps he was laying it on a little more thickly than necessary, but it sounds to me as if your professor is what most of us could use in the early days of establishing ourselves--a coach.

All successful coaches hand out both bouquets and brickbats--the former to encourage their charges and the latter to dispel any complacency. The one without the other generally leads either to unwarranted hubris or black despair.

I'd prefer to be told about the faults in my work in an atmosphere of general positivity, so I can set about fixing them, rather than fulsomely praised out of kind but blind loyalty.

I'm a fan these days of the concept known as 'The Management of Expectations'.

In every situation there's a spectrum of possible attitudes from foolish optimism to bleak pessimism. The midpoint approach that works for me in most cases is Optimistic Pessimism. That is, you do your best (absolutely essential in all circumstances), hope for the best, behave as if you expect the best, and prepare for the worst. That way you can never be bitterly disappointed, and most of the time you are pleasantly surprised by how things turn out better than you (secretly) thought they might. Given the depressing statistics extant in the writing business, I believe it's the best way to preserve one's sanity and cheerful demeanour.

P.S. I can also highly recommend the M.O.E. principle at home.

When your spouse/equivalent says, 'I'd hoped you were going to scrub the bathroom/cook us a gourmet dinner/entertain the children for a few hours/make me shudder nightly in paroxysms of erotic delight/assure our future happiness and security once and for all", you can reply:

'Darling One, may I suggest that you learn to manage your expectations?'

[Nateskate]

Sometimes, it's that well-timed compliment, or that word that is given at just the right time.

I'd say that I have had more people encourage me than discourage me, by far. I have a friend that I asked to hold a copy of my story ( I like to make sure that there's always a hard copy somewhere, just in case) She said, "It's going to be a best-seller!"

It's not a professional opinion, but it's nice to have someone who believes in you. Does everyone here have those kinds of people? If so, what have they meant to you? Have the balanced out your insecurities?

[reph]

Almost two hours and nobody's answered.

My husband encourages me. People on this board have done so from time to time.

[AncientEagle]

My wife and my daughter both encourage me. When my mother was alive, she was always supportive - in her late eighties, she stayed up most of a night reading a draft of my first attempt at a novel, then got up early to finish it the next morning, and proclaimed it great. Readers of my op-ed columns are frequently highly encouraging, calling or writing to say so, or (total strangers) stopping me in the mall to say they read and enjoy my stuff.

So what it boils down to is, the one who is most negative about my work is me.

[Kasey Mackenzie]

I'm fortunate in that my mother and siblings encourage me, and my husband is my biggest fan and supporter. I also have some wonderful friends who support me. I truly count my blessings for that!

[tjwriter]

I wish someone would just pick a stance, period. I have commencement a week from Sunday, and my majors are business-related. Last summer, I really picked up on writing again, and when I write, I feel at peace. So I expressed my desires to write to my husband and to my family.
No one has really given me much of a response. My mother, who majored in journalism, didn't really comment much at all. I figured she would be my biggest supporter. My dad didn't really say much, but I actually think he's my biggest supporter. The dear husband just kinda does the nod and look away thing when I talk about it. Though sometimes he does seem like he supports me.

It might sound odd, but I can feel that I am not bound to take the beaten trail. Things have always gone 'the different route' for me and my career path will probably be the same. I just have to figure out what it all is. Until then, I will strive after the things that most fulfill me.

[Nateskate]

I wish someone would just pick a stance, period. I have commencement a week from Sunday, and my majors are business-related. Last summer, I really picked up on writing again, and when I write, I feel at peace. So I expressed my desires to write to my husband and to my family.
No one has really given me much of a response. My mother, who majored in journalism, didn't really comment much at all. I figured she would be my biggest supporter. My dad didn't really say much, but I actually think he's my biggest supporter. The dear husband just kinda does the nod and look away thing when I talk about it. Though sometimes he does seem like he supports me.

It might sound odd, but I can feel that I am not bound to take the beaten trail. Things have always gone 'the different route' for me and my career path will probably be the same. I just have to figure out what it all is. Until then, I will strive after the things that most fulfill me.

People are generally positive about sure things. They fear risk, especially spouces and parents. My one son was going to be a lawyer, which came out of the blue. Then he changed to philosophy, then he decided he wanted to be a rock star. Well, as a parent, you tend to be more excited about certainty. And you want your kid to have plan "B". Now, if he succeeds in music, and keeps his head, I'll be glad he's not a lawyer. But ask me if I smile when he's playing for free on open Mic nights, instead of at a paying job?

Writing is an art, and artists want to express themselves. So, if you have a love of writing, or anything, you'll want to do it. I wrote for years, but not as a career. In fact, there's stuff I've done in the past that was novel length that was written for a small fan base. I've done serials, and comic relief stuff. But none of that was for money, and outside of the small group, it didn't give me much in the way of popularity. It was people pushing me to publish that made me take this step.

I did serious writing at one time, and essentially made it free to people, public domain, because 1) I had a job, and wasn't about the money. 2) My motivation was to benefit people. And I figured the best way was to give it away, although now I'm not sure of that strategy. It reached a fairly large audience, but now I realize some people look at publishing as a sort of validation of authority to speak on topics, which opens other doors. So perhaps when I'm done with this novel, if it doesn't drive me into the ground, I'll start doing some serious writing again.

That opened doors for me to talk to people, and large numbers of people at one time.

So, don't feel like support is immediate, especially from loved ones. There was a thread once about spouces who support your writing.

I know my wife loves me, but she is way too busy to read my stuff. Then on the other hand she's convinced my writing will make me famous.

She's published. She's offered to make contacts for me through her connections, which I haven't tried.

But as far as spousal pats on the back, frankly, because of the subject matter of what she's published, I can't say I'm exactly thrilled when she asks me to read her stuff. If I do, it's only to be supportive. But let's face it, I know my wife is a brilliant woman, and an important woman. She's eaten with presidents of other nations, and has spoken at a world congress. Whether or not I enjoy reading what she writes has nothing to do with my love for her or validation of her. She gives me something to look over, and she'll say, "You're not enjoying this are you?" Well, that's like asking if I like her hair after coming back from the hairdresser. There's only one answer, and you learn it after about five years of marriage. But the answer inside my head is generally, "Not really"

[azbikergirl]

My family members encourage me, and my two beta readers encourage me. They all probably believe in me more than I believe in me. Having these people around definitely helps me when I feel particularly doubtful.

[Nateskate]

My family members encourage me, and my two beta readers encourage me. They all probably believe in me more than I believe in me. Having these people around definitely helps me when I feel particularly doubtful.

It's important to get positive feedback. A few rare people have talent that blows people away. Those few have it all, great ideas, grammar, prose, ideas, syntax, discipline. You are infact exceptional if you are very good at one of these. But most people, myself included, have a weakness, and have to overcome that weakness before we'll get a publishers attention.

I thought I was ready, but now I am so thankful I didn't try to publish two years ago. I needed to work on my writing and when I look at what I wrote, I'm almost embarrassed that I thought it was good enough.

Now, here's the important thing. I never ever doubted that I had something worth being said. The trick was saying it in a way that people would want to read it. So, if you believe you have stories in you, it's likely that eventually they will find a home.

[tjwriter]

Well, as a parent, you tend to be more excited about certainty. And you want your kid to have plan "B".

~snip~

So, don't feel like support is immediate, especially from loved ones. There was a thread once about spouces who support your writing.

I know my wife loves me, but she is way too busy to read my stuff. Then on the other hand she's convinced my writing will make me famous.

~snip~

She gives me something to look over, and she'll say, "You're not enjoying this are you?" Well, that's like asking if I like her hair after coming back from the hairdresser. There's only one answer, and you learn it after about five years of marriage. But the answer inside my head is generally, "Not really"

I understand the certainty issue and I think that's where my parents are most concerned. They were ecstatic went I first went to school for accounting, but frankly I can't stand the stuff any more. I would really like to start my own business (in what I have no clue), and with my majors, I have a good background for it.

I have an idea for the area I live in, but I don't have the capital to do it. I need to research some grant resources. This business, due to this location and economic type, would allow me to write as well. Yet, I guess because of the certainty thing my parents don't seem thrilled at this prospect either. I suppose that is more my mother on that one. I discussed my ideas in detail with my dad and he really seemed to like it.

I let my husband know that I support him completely. It may not be my cup of tea, and often it isn't, but if we can afford/accomplish it I do whatever I can to help him. He knows I am not interested in some of the stuff he does, and he knows I give my support for him as best I can.

We talked about what I wanted to accomplish with my writing, and he never put me down or talked negative. He kinda just kept quiet. Perhaps his lack of response has more to do with his lack of interest than his lack of support. I do the same to/for him. I listen quietly and don't have much to comment bacause I don't know much, but I do support it.

He's a hands-on/outdoor type and I am academic/self-described nerd type. How we hooked up is beyond me.

Whew. Nate, you just gave me some wonderful insight to this whole topic. I just love discussion! :Thumbs:

[Nateskate]

There's a funny paradox. Most people who started out poor and became wealthy, did so by taking a risk.

Now parents want a sure thing, but a lot of sure things also yield lesser income, lesser job satisfaction.

Lets say you have a series "The Bachelor" and you take some guy who risked everything, and is now a famous writer. They'd be climbing over each other for the guy.

Now, if you took someone who was an aspiring writer, who hadn't broke through, you might as well said he was an impoverished waiter at a dive restaurant with no chance of a future.

Well, every famous writer was once an aspiring writer. People love the sure thing that already paid off. And it paid off only because he did take a risk. Yet, because of percentages, people tend to be, "Oh, did you know only one in blank writers can support themselves with writing?"

People don't want sure things, and that's the name of the game.

I played it safe, and I'll tell you what, there's an upside to having weekends off and vacations and paid health insurance, but there's a downside. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing, "What are you doing here? You've got a real talent...you should be writing..."

My regret is waiting so long. So, if life demands force you to a situation that where you need to take a certain career ave, never let your dream die. Just do it part time until something better opens up.