Will my novel's name be scrapped?

Darzian · Aug 19, 2008

I'm under the assumption that the writer has little choice over the title and cover of his book(s).

I've noticed that fantasy novels tend to have epic names such as

Wheel of Time
Empire of Heaven
Scroll, Seal and Beast
Dark Tower
Wizard's Castle
The Dragon Reborn
Silent night

etc etc

All these names have words derived from the English Language.

I want to name my novel (just started though) as 'The Rathyen Sen.'

This is actually an item around which much of the plot is concentrated. Do you think an editor would let me keep it?

I know I'm planning early as it will take me a minimum of 6-10 months to complete the first draft and of course finding a publisher will likely take the rest of my life but I just wanted to clarify so that I can keep my expectation low.

Woodsie · Aug 19, 2008

Darzian said:
the writer has little choice over the title and cover of his book

I don't know the answer, but I do want to know if this is true. ?? I strategically picked mine....

mscelina · Aug 19, 2008

Does it matter as long as you're getting published?

Woodsie · Aug 19, 2008

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, so I won't say anything after this, but unless they come up with something better, then it matters to me.

Shadow_Ferret · Aug 19, 2008

Personally, I'd be interested to know if there are any stats on how many author's titles get changed at the publishers.

I'd bet they change less than you think.

SPMiller · Aug 19, 2008

I have to agree that I don't see how it's very important. In my opinion, if the pub house thinks a new title will help it reach a wider audience, great, go ahead. My own working titles change constantly and I'm not attached to them.

Darzian · Aug 19, 2008

I think it really matters to me.

Of course if they come up with something better then I don't mind but the title I've chosen seems to fit the story perfectly. I would be very upset if they published under a less suitable title.

I was just wondering anyway because I want to at least LIKE any substitute title they put- I don't just want to have to accept anything they throw my way.

Of course this is all under the assumption that I actually manage to convince a publisher that my book will sell.

kct webber · Aug 19, 2008

It seems to me that the title has a great deal to do with marketing, just like the cover. Publishers know more about that stuff than you do. I wouldn't want my publisher to change the name of one of mine, but I'd probably defer to them due to their expertise.

*Disclaimer: This is not a statement of any direct knowledge or experience--just what I assume.

escritora · Aug 19, 2008

I'm under the assumption that the writer has little choice over the title and cover of his book(s).

I don't write fantasy, but thought I'd provide my experience. Every book contract I sign (nonfiction) states that the final decision for the title and cover belongs to the publisher. There is a clause that they will consult with me, but again the final decision isn't mine. Without stats to back it up, I do believe that the majority of titles are changed.

A few months ago, an agent blogged about a publisher changing the title of her client's book. The client was very upset because she wanted the title she choose. The publisher was generous and gave the author an opportunity to develop different titles for consideration. However, if the publisher didn't like the alternatives then the author was out of luck. After a few rounds, the publisher agreed on a title that the agent and client created.

Mumut · Aug 19, 2008

My first novel published is called The Gatekeeper. I think the name helps because it is easily remembered. At signings people say, 'I've heard of this'. So I think the name does matter. The second publisher for the work has a book with a similar title so I've had to change mine. I'm not nearly as happy with the second name, 'Guardian of the Gate', but I'll have to go with it. The second book, out in Australia in the next two or three weeks, I had no trouble having my name accepted either.

Have you googled the name you want for your book? If there are no others out there like it, there should be no problems having it accepted for your book.

katiemac · Aug 19, 2008

I want to name my novel (just started though) as 'The Rathyen Sen.'

This is actually an item around which much of the plot is concentrated. Do you think an editor would let me keep it?

A potential problem I see with your chosen title--one that editors/marketing/PR might also have--is that it's not immediately obvious how to pronounce nor is the object it's named after easily identifiable. Of course it makes sense when you read the book, but there may be an issue of buzz and accessibility when it comes to getting people to read it and passing it along to their friends. Think about a reader looking for your book in a store--are they going to be able to remember or spell it without carrying the title around on a slip of paper?

virtue_summer · Aug 19, 2008

While I can't speak to what rights an author has or doesn't have over a title, I personally would suggest you to think carefully about the title you've chosen. Titles are marketing. They're often the first thing a reader notices and looks to in order to get a hint of what the story is about. While your title may make sense to you, will it mean anything to a reader browsing a bookstore? If they haven't read the book then the title you mentioned might just be a bunch of nonsense to them. Are they likely to pick up a book with a nonsense title? I don't know. I know I wouldn't. Just food for thought. Not saying your title doesn't make sense once you've read the story, only asking you to consider how it will affect readers who haven't read the story yet (the ones for whom the title matters most).

Keffington · Aug 20, 2008

I think I remember hearing somewhere that titles involving made up words tend to sell less. That being said, I cannot remember where and when I heard that, and even if it's true, I'm sure somebody can come up with an exception.

DeleyanLee · Aug 20, 2008

This isn't a formal study, but I've had/have many pro friends over the years (ranging from newly published to NYT bestsellers) and about 1 in 5 titles of theirs have come up for discussion.

Several times, the editor wanted the title to change and asked the author to come up with a list of (between 10-50) suggestions to take to Marketing. Marketing has the final say about titles (and cover art). About 60% of the time, Marketing has sided with the author's original title. 30% of the time, they picked something off the submitted list(s). 10% of the time, they came up with something completely on their own.

I've known one author who fought tooth & nail for her original title--and won--only to have one of her best-written books tank because another book by the exact same title (and nearly the exact same cover in a different color scheme) come out 2 months prior to her title, so when people were browsing the shelves, her book got ignored because people remembered buying that title not that long ago. Bloody shame too.

If you're going to fight for your title, then talk to the Marketing people and find out what their objections to it are. There usually is something important that the author would never think about to be considered. There's so much more to titling about than what the author feels is important to the story.

Toothpaste · Aug 20, 2008

I have come to realise that the title will change up until the very last minute. For me that is okay because I suck at titles. However I can tell when a title is inappropriate for my story. That's the tough bit, when you spend weeks and weeks working with your publisher to find a new title. Both my books (Alex in the UK and Timothy in general) went through agonizing, going through lists and lists of words processes. My back even went out on the Alex debate. But in the end we got to titles that both really loved and supported. Now I don't even have a title. I choose something as a place holder, but nothing special. You just have to understand that if they insist your title needs to be changed, it is better to work with the publisher so you get a say, than to mope in a corner because they changed it.

And I am with the others. Considering your title makes no sense and consists of made up words tricky to pronounce . . . you may very well have to change it. You may not, but think of that as icing on the cake, not the expected outcome.

Doodlebug · Aug 20, 2008

Darzian, since you've only begun working on his project, it is possible that you might discover a title that you like better.

Personally, I begin with a working title and as the story progresses and I get a better idea of the direction of my project, then I change the title accordingly.

Do you plan to make this novel one in a series? Maybe the title could be something else, but the series could be 'The Rathyen Sen'?

Honalo · Aug 20, 2008

Darzian, my take: There's probably lots that will change over the course of finding a publisher to getting published - you could be asked to cut out 10,000 words, you could be asked to change the novel's direction, I mean, I don't know - I'm not published either, but if someone tells me that it's either change the title or take a walk, I'm staying put and changing.

That said, I don't think you're title is that bad - it's unusual enough that it might work well to pique interest.

Nakhlasmoke · Aug 20, 2008

heh. i see where you're coming from, but I'm afraid at the end of the day, you liking the title is not enough of an incentive - your public have to like it.

I mean, i LOVE my current title but I'm resigned to it being shot down for being too obscure.

*shrug*

DeleyanLee · Aug 20, 2008

My basic take on working titles is to name the book something I can remember, doesn't sound awful, and something that I won't cry rivers about getting changed later. It's the story that matters to me, not the title. The only thing I'll fight for is not to have interchangeable titles on my books (think: Dean Koontz & Amanda Quick for examples). Great books, but I'll be hanged if I can remember titles of even the ones I really liked.

Marian Perera · Aug 20, 2008

I agree about the made-up words in the title. I probably wouldn't have picked up the first A Song of Ice and Fire novel if it had been called "The Starks of Westeros", rather than A Game of Thrones.

Claudia Gray · Aug 20, 2008

I've been lucky -- thus far all three of my titles have been accepted as-is, though I don't have a fantasy element in any of them. But I can think of scifi/fantasy books with such elements, like Rendezvous With Rama and such.

Basically, don't get married to your title, but don't assume it will have to be rewritten either. You never know.

Mr Flibble · Aug 20, 2008

don't get married to your title, but don't assume it will have to be rewritten either.

I agree with that. Also wait till you've finished the book before you settle on a definate title. I had a title all the way through working on my MS, until I wrote the climax. Then it hit me BAM! headshot, right between the eyes what the title should be. It seems the publisher's are going to go with it too.

FennelGiraffe · Aug 20, 2008

It can be useful to prepare a list of alternate titles. I've heard of authors being told the publisher doesn't like their title, but given the opportunity to suggest others.

tehuti88 · Aug 20, 2008

The first thing I thought when I saw your title was, "What does it even mean?" Granted, it's not so bad that it would immediately turn me off from buying the book (I like the occasional "made-up" word), but it was more perplexing than anything. It confused me more than it intrigued me. I think the reason most titles are in English words is because people can get at least a tiny picture of what the book might be about. (Even if the title is metaphorical, or is just the name of a character, like, say, "Eragon," which I haven't read.) I don't think most people could identify with "The Rathyen Sen" because they have no idea what it even is. (Is it a name? A title? An object? A place? An animal? A person? An abstract concept?...etc.)

I know all about loving one's own title. I'm not seeking publication so whether the title gets changed or not isn't an issue for me, and I have no idea on the stats of such things. But I thought I'd share my two cents. You might be facing some reader confusion and there really might be people out there who would be turned off because the words in the title make no immediate sense to them.

ETA: Ah! I just read a part of your post I missed and the title in fact is an object. But see that I had no idea what it was without this information in the first place?

And why should I, the reader, care what this object is if I still get no idea or picture of it from its name? It takes the story itself to explain this, but if the title is too confusing the reader might not get that far.

Kitty Pryde · Aug 20, 2008

What happens to a dream deferred / Does it dry up / like a Raythen in the Sen?

I agree that made-up-word titles=mass confusion. I think they aren't popular/publishers don't want them because they are hard for readers to find. If I was told a strange not-english name of a book, it would be hard to remember it once i got to the bookstore, even though i have a good memory and a decent ear for foreign languages.

My mom used to work at Large Chain Bookstore, and a woman came in to ask for a young adult book called E.R. Dragon. "Eragon?" my mother asked. "No," the woman insisted, "E.R. Dragon. A very popular new hardback book about a boy and his adventures with a dragon." "Eragon?" my mother asked. "No! E.R. Dragon! It's blue! There's a dragon on the cover! Very popular! E.R. Dragon!" "Eragon?" my mother tried again, leading the woman to the large cardboard display filled with big blue books with dragons on the cover, with 'Bestseller!' stamped all over them. "E.R. Dragon! Why won't you listen to me? You must not have it!" and she stormed out of the store. Somewhere out there is a woman who doesn't frequent Large Chain Bookstore anymore because they didn't have a copy of 'E.R. Dragon.' Writer beware. :roll:

In that case, Eragon worked as a title, I would guess because it's like a typo of 'dragon.'

Will my novel's name be scrapped?

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