Help, please! (Referring to a book within a book)

nccreative · Aug 18, 2008

I'm editing a novel which has a mysterious manuscript as part of the storyline, referred to frequently as "the book."

I suddenly find myself questioning this.

Is there any grammatical logic to referring to this manuscript prior to it being discovered as "the book," and any time it is referred to after having been discovered -- with the characters then referring to it more specifically -- as "The Book"?

Thanks!

NeuroFizz · Aug 18, 2008

This may not be appriopriate to your story, but if it hasn't yet been discovered, how can they refer to it at all? Is it rumored to exist? In book form? What era? More information is needed to answer your question.

nccreative · Aug 18, 2008

Yes, it is a book rumored to exist throughout much of the novel, and then a character does indeed discover it.

That's why I question how to refer to it pre-discovery versus post-discovery. It was written around 1800, though it contains teachings from centuries earlier, passed down through oral tradition to the chosen few.

On a COMPLETELY different note, are you a Chicago Manual of Style aficionado, by any chance?

I ask because the other editing task I'm focusing on today is to have the manuscript (the actual novel...lol) conform to CMOS guidelines with regard to how dates are typed out within the narrative. Either there's conflicting information, or I'm interpreting things wrong.

Is it correct that, for example, a sentence should read: She decided to leave on May fifteenth, after the wedding.

Wow, that just feels so odd.

I thank you (and anyone else) very much for your assistance! Much appreciated.

NeuroFizz · Aug 18, 2008

I'd call it "The Book" throughout since it is apparently revered (or feared), and it is considered an essential text (discovered yet or not). But really, this isn't a huge sticking point since an editor will help (!) you make that decision if it is picked up by a publisher.

You grammar questions should go in the "Grammar for Grasshoppers" forum.

nccreative · Aug 18, 2008

Thank you.

Donkey · Aug 18, 2008

nccreative said:
It was written around 1800, though it contains teachings from centuries earlier, passed down through oral tradition to the chosen few.

Here's a thought.....
"The Book". Could it be more interesting? What about it's origins? Could it have originally been written in an older language other than English? If so, what is the translated term for "The Book" in the older, possibly obscure language? That might be interesting!

hammerklavier · Aug 18, 2008

Something more accademic like

"The Mystical Tome of Myzyron the Elder"
"The Heretical Sayings of Zyderbon as transcribed by his infernal accolytes"
"The Book of the Humor and Wit of Sakkra the Executioner"

Followed simply by "Myzron's writings" or "The book of Sakkra"

nccreative · Aug 18, 2008

Hi, Donkey ~

It's actually referred to a variety of ways within the narrative. Months ago I consulted with a professor of religious history to get his opinion, since it involves a sacred text. After doing so, I felt comfortable going with The Book after its existence was confirmed within the novel. I just wanted to get feedback here now that I'm down to the final edit.

Thanks.

Shweta · Aug 18, 2008

Hallo! I've renamed the thread to be more specific. This should get you more feedback

nccreative · Aug 18, 2008

Thanks, Shweta!

Shar-Jan · Aug 18, 2008

The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco references literally hundreds of medieval manuscripts. It usually does this by first showing the (loooong) title, and then just addressing it as being the actual thoughts of the author, as if speaking directly to the characters. For example

"From Ayyub al-Ruhawi, A Treatise on Canine Hydrophobia" becomes "Al-Ruhawi"

If you choose to give "The Book" a more concrete name, I think it would be best to go about it this way. (Be very careful if you choose to give it a Latin or name in another language you aren't fluent in, you could end up naming it 'Mighty Boz's colossal flatulence' or something)

nccreative · Aug 19, 2008

LOL! Thanks Shar-Jan. Understood.

It's important that the name of the book not be revealed until it's actually discovered; until that time, it's all speculation as to whether or not this manuscript exists.

RJK · Aug 19, 2008

do your characters know who wrote the book? If so, add the author's name i.e. "The Jefferson Book" If not the author's name the geographic origin of the book "The Newcastle Book."

Naming it "The Book" sounds a little too close to "The Good Book" and I'm guessing you don't want to go there.

nccreative · Aug 19, 2008

Hi, RJK.

The authors of the book aren't known...that's part of the mystery.

I'm comfortable with how it's referred to now, as far as the capitalization issue, as it's interwoven within the narrative.

I appreciate everyone's feedback!

windyrdg · Aug 19, 2008

My suggestion would be to give it a name. Something mystical that causes the reader to wonder what might have been in it. As the story progresses you can build excitement/expectations. FYI: A while back Tyndale published a version of The Living Bible under the title The Book. Not that the title is copyrighted or anything, but it could lead to confusion.

Phaeal · Aug 19, 2008

Heh, I'm very tempted of late to start referring to the Necronomicon as the Nomi in my WIP, it shows up so often. That just sounds so...irreverent.

nccreative · Aug 19, 2008

I may not have made it clear, but once the manuscript is discovered, it does indeed have a name, and it's subsequently referred to by this name (it is mysterious) throughout the remainder of the novel.

tehuti88 · Aug 19, 2008

In one of my stories, there's a very important Island, which, before the main character really knows much about it, is referred to as an island (lowercase). Then, after she learns more about it, throughout the entire rest of the series it's called the Island (uppercase).

On the one hand this is to help differentiate it from another island located in the same place in a different dimension (the uppercase Island's "real world" equivalent), but on the other hand it just helps denote how important the uppercase Island is to the plot.

I'm not sure if this is at all what you meant by your initial post but I thought I'd toss it out there.

Charlie Horse · Aug 19, 2008

nccreative said:
Yes, it is a book rumored to exist throughout much of the novel, and then a character does indeed discover it.

That's why I question how to refer to it pre-discovery versus post-discovery. It was written around 1800, though it contains teachings from centuries earlier, passed down through oral tradition to the chosen few.

On a COMPLETELY different note, are you a Chicago Manual of Style aficionado, by any chance?

I ask because the other editing task I'm focusing on today is to have the manuscript (the actual novel...lol) conform to CMOS guidelines with regard to how dates are typed out within the narrative. Either there's conflicting information, or I'm interpreting things wrong.

Is it correct that, for example, a sentence should read: She decided to leave on May fifteenth, after the wedding.

Wow, that just feels so odd.

I thank you (and anyone else) very much for your assistance! Much appreciated.

Here's my take from an editorial perspective as well as that of a writer. Capitalize "The Book" and make sure it's consistent throughout. If you like, in the first instance where it's mentioned you can also italicize or put it in quotes as I have done above.

On you CMOS question, you want to go with May 15th. However, if you're referring to the date without the month, the you would spell it out as in "I have an appointment on the fifteenth." Here's a link addressing that particular question.

nccreative · Aug 21, 2008

Thanks, tehuti88! Wow, I sooooo want to go to Mackinac Island. *sighs* Thanks for the feedback; that is what I have done.

And, thanks Charlie Horse...for how you see "The Book," as well as the CMOS answer.

Much, much appreciated.

Help, please! (Referring to a book within a book)

nccreative

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

nccreative

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it

nccreative

Donkey

hammerklavier

It was a dark and stormy night

nccreative

Shweta

gone

nccreative

Shar-Jan

nccreative

RJK

Sheriff Bullwinkle the Poet says:

nccreative

windyrdg

New kid, be gentle!

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

nccreative

tehuti88

Mackinac Island Fanatic

Charlie Horse

Speaking in metaphors

nccreative