I have lots of books that need representation, help!

Pat Waldron

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Hi, I am new to this forum. It is great. Thanks for all of the info. To tell a little about myself, I am a children’s art teacher. I have been making children’s books for years now. I took a class with Esther Hersehenhorn and another with a published illustrator. Both were very knowledgeable and helpful. Since I work full-time and have other interests I have developed a backlog of picture book manuscripts that need to be represented, over twenty. Do successful picture book writers make hundreds at a time?

I have already sent a few queries to different agents. My question is do I approach one at a time or can I divide my books along what each agent desires most and thereby acquire a several agents if successful? Who would want several agents? Would the agents feel slighted?

Thanks,

Patrick
 

Karen Duvall

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I can practically guarantee that if you land an agent, he or she will want to represent all your books. That's just how it works, unless you get an agent who reps fiction only and you also write non fic.

Your best bet is to query only one book, and make it your best one, to a number of agents. You can mention in your letter that you have other completed projects, but I wouldn't if I were you. An agent typically signs an author based on one book, then may decide to rep the other projects as well if he or she think they can sell. If you mention all your book projects, this would come off as amateurish and unprofessional. When you get an agent's attention on the one book, then you can mention the others.
 

Pat Waldron

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If you mention all your book projects, this would come off as amateurish and unprofessional.

Thanks. But as for professionalism,I can use all the advice I can get. Anybody who dreams up stories where children run around with giant feathers tickling wild animals, advises children the myriad reasons why not to be astronaut (reverse pychology), and has stacks and stacks of sketchbooks filled with shark drawings may not benefit much from learning about professionalism and should probably stick with what they know best.

Of course, I have come a long way in my query letter writing. I just wrote one that accurately related my book to well-known books. I argued how my story would remind the reader of games they have played with their parents. And, how the story resembled writing assignments their teachers have surely given them. My book, like my other books, is just something made by a grown-up-kid.

Time for a video game:)
 
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scope

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Lots of books -- representation

Thanks. But as for professionalism,I can use all the advice I can get. Anybody who dreams up stories where children run around with giant feathers tickling wild animals, advises children the myriad reasons why not to be astronaut (reverse pychology), and has stacks and stacks of sketchbooks filled with shark drawings may not benefit much from learning about professionalism and should probably stick with what they know best.

Patrick,

I believe that Karen gave you perfect advice,
With the above in mind, I don't understand your paragraph above. You start by acknowledging your need to learn how to be professional, but in your last sentence you seem to reject same. Could you explain what you mean and what you are after?


Of course, I have come a long way in my query letter writing. I just wrote one that accurately related my book to well-known books. I argued how my story would remind the reader of games they have played with their parents. And, how the story resembled writing assignments their teachers have surely given them. My book, like my other books, is just something made by a grown-up-kid.

If you want to make reference to other books in the genre for which yours is written, you only have room to do so very briefly. The one page format and all you have to get across doesn't leave room for lots of words. I hope that when you say "relate" you only mean mentioning a couple of titles and telling the agent why your work is different, better, and why it's needed and will sell. Not to be fictitious, but I must ask, is your work written for children or adults? That may sound silly, but you say that the story will remind the reader of games they played with their parents and of writing assignments given them by teachers. While that sounds like fun, it also suggests to me that the ideal potential readers are actually adult, and I have to wonder if your work is written over the head of very young children (picture books age).
 

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First thing you need to do RIGHT NOW is join the Society for Children's Book Writers and Illustrators. Your $75 will get you access to more advice than you can possibly digest in a lifetime.

Picture books are a very special genre. They don't make as much money as other kinds of books, and the people who buy them (grown-ups) aren't even the people who want to read them! Because there isn't as much chance for runaway bestseller, not as many agents represent PBs, so the competition is fierce. YOU REALLY NEED TO LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN ABOUT IT! Sorry for the caps, my finger slipped, but then it seemed like a good idea to leave it that way.

On the other hand, PBs are one of the few areas where publishers still consider direct, unagented submissions. If you can get one or two accepted by an editor, you have a much better chance of getting an agent.

Karen is right--query your very best book. Then be ready to discuss the others, because any agent who wants to take on a PB person will definitely want to know if you have more ideas ready. It's only worth it to them if you sell more than one book.

You say you're an art teacher--does that mean you are also an illustrator? Because the rules for that are even more unique.... Illustrators seldom submit original work. They submit portfolios, and then get contracted to add the art to someone else's text.

Seriously, join SCBWI. Go to workshops and conferences they offer. It's the only place to learn about PBs.
 

Pat Waldron

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Forgive me.

With the above in mind, I don't understand your paragraph above. You start by acknowledging your need to learn how to be professional, but in your last sentence you seem to reject same. Could you explain what you mean and what you are after?

I need all the professionalism advice I can get, but becoming a professional seems the antithesis to writing stories for children. To explain further, if I was the type of person to sing a song about your hat then to spend my time learning all of the protocol in submitting my song for publication, my improvisational skill would suffer.

As for the book, you can read it once its published:) I think if what Judscotkev writes, that most pb buyers are adults, then you have extended a wonderful blessing to me. Thank you. Anyway, the book is about 60 words long and just covers so many educational bases. I have read it to children. They like it and it becomes part of their repetoire of let's pretend. I wish I could share it with everyone and with a little luck, I will.

Thank you for the advice. I just finished another book tonight using advice from this forum. I realized that my deepest thoughts are what people want in PBs

I think I'll make it with your help. Please excuse my distain for professionalism and protocol it opens doors for me, but may spell demise for others.
 
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Pat Waldron

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JudScotKev quote First thing you need to do RIGHT NOW is join the Society for Children's Book Writers and Illustrators. Your $75 will get you access to more advice than you can possibly digest in a lifetime.

uhh, that's a lot of money right now.

On the other hand, PBs are one of the few areas where publishers still consider direct, unagented submissions. If you can get one or two accepted by an editor, you have a much better chance of getting an agent.

Thanks, I'll check out some publishers

You say you're an art teacher--does that mean you are also an illustrator? Because the rules for that are even more unique.... Illustrators seldom submit original work. They submit portfolios, and then get contracted to add the art to someone else's text.

I have illustrated a few dummies, but I am very aware of the competition and discovered that my artistic skills do not always match my stories. Also, working a full-time job leaves little room to write and illustrate. I find writing the stories easier. But, I have this masterpiece that I don't want any other artist to touch. With 99% of my stories, I will happily allow another artist to illustrate. This one story however, just wouldn't work. I have uncompromisable goals for the pictures and from what I can tell, no publisher would want that kind harangue from a writer.

Seriously, join SCBWI. Go to workshops and conferences they offer. It's the only place to learn about PBs.

I have taken classes from Esther Hershenhorn and Lisa Cinelli in Chicago. Esther is the Chicago or Illinois Chapter leader. To be honest, I learn more from the librarian at my school and of course reading PB's to my students. Which reminds me, I have a few dinosaur books to write:)
 

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Another simple way of advertising yourself, without getting an agent, is to have postcards made of one of your best pieces of work - something that defines your illustrating style. There are several websites that print postcards for fairly cheap. Throw your info on the back and even that the pic comes from a completed children's pb. Editors actually keep all the postcards and decorate their offices/cubes with them. And when something comes along PB-wise, they look through them to find someone's style that matches the book. A lot of illustrators get their first breaks going this route, and the fact that you are writing the stories as well, will make it even better. Editors prefer to work with writers/illustrators over just a writer.

Postcards:
www.vistaprint.com

Right now they are having a weekend sale where you can get 100 postcards for free. I think I'm reading that right because it sounds too good to be true! And no, I don't work for vistaprint.
 

Toothpaste

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I need all the professionalism advice I can get, but becoming a professional seems the antithesis to writing stories for children. To explain further, if I was the type of person to sing a song about your hat then to spend my time learning all of the protocol in submitting my song for publication, my improvisational skill would suffer.

I find this a little insulting. But I am known for writing such "I find this a little insulting" posts where people tell me to get a thick skin. I think I should qualify that by saying, I don't actually find it insulting, but I want you to know how someone like me could find something like this insulting.

Because I too write books for children. But unlike you I have spent a long time learning about professionalism in the industry, how the industry works, what I need to do to optomise my chances. Saying this must mean to you that I have sacrificed my ability to write for children, sacrificed my "improvisational skill". But I don't think that's happened. In fact, I think I've gotten better.

I am sorry but I just never believed in the artist is an artist and nothing more. Certainly there are some who stay in their apartment and just create art, but those aren't the successful ones. The successful ones understand their market, understand their industry AND are creative souls. How do you know you will sacrifice any of your creativity as a writer, when you have never tried the professionalism thing? You say with such certainty, but it is obvious because you feel so strongly, you've never given it a shot.

One doesn't cancel out the other, one doesn't replace the other. The true author is capable of balancing many different elements. Of knowing when advice is good, or when it is to be tossed to the side, of being able to market their work AND create their work, of understanding the rules of writing and then breaking all the rules of writing. That's why it is do darn difficult to be an author, it is so much more than just words on the page.

Anyway, I would strongly suggest trying for professionalism, seeing how it works. You may discover you are more capable of multi-tasking than you think. Give yourself a bit more credit than that!

(BTW 75$ is a lot, but it can also be very helpful to join SCBWI, and you can write it off come tax time - though if you simply don't have the cash right now, obviously you can't do it. Just keep it in mind for the future).
 

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Of course, it's your choice. But every agent website I've ever read says that one of the first things they look for in submission letters is professionalism. They don't have time to explain how the world works to people who are naive.

If that feels uncomfortable, then perhaps self-publishing would be the route for you. It limits your access to all but maybe a few local bookstores, but it does let you have complete control over how the book is done.
 

Pat Waldron

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Hi, Toothpaste. Professionalism is about becoming part of the establishment and is end oreinted, book sales. Getting better at selling books is not my goal. I am certain many of my stories will not reach their audience, but I also believe that non-conformity can sell. Possibly in the child psychology market? is there one? There is a little known eastern philosophy saying that goes something like this, "You can jump off the tiger, he will not eat you." Thidwick the Big-Hearted Moose by Dr. Seuss is a story similar to this idea. The forest animals started to take up residence in Thidwick's antlers. When the hunters came, the moose's antlers were shed. The moose got away but all the animals were shot and stuffed. Civilization, culture, and professionalism are the moose and the tiger. You can stay on if you like, they are strong and will protect you. You can jump off if you like. The tiger won't eat you and you might be better able to escape the hunters.
 

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I want to tell stories that will affect people's lives. These stories are not always commercially viable as books. I was just in the bookstore last night reading Mo Williams and I forget the author's name but the title was If you bring a Mouse to School... But they just gave me this awful feeling. They are teaching conformity. The mouse joins in and the pigeon shares. I thought, the most successful people today always have a story of "jumping off the tiger." They left their tenured professorship and became a famous author. They stopped their cancer medication and became cancer-free. They quit their job, went freelance and made three times the money. Non-conformity pays off, sometimes? more often than you think? Most people never try. Sitting on the fence doesn't.
 

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Actually no, that isn't what professionalism is at all. And why on earth then are you seeking out an agent if that is what you think of professionalism anyway?
 

scope

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I find it almost impossible to respond to your posts in a succinct manner. Therefore, I will simply say ditto to all the excellent advice given you by JudScotKev, Toothpaste, and veinglory.
 

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Umm....

I use Mo Willems' and Laura Numeroff's (Mouse a Cookie) books in my first grade class every year. Never in a million years did I detect the faintest whiff of conformity in either! The mouse isn't supposed to be in school. Joining in is subversive when you don't belong! And if sharing equals conformity, well, it still beats selfishness.

But that's not even the point. The point is that children LOVE those authors! The combination of kindness and silliness appeals to boys and girls alike. Those authors sell millions of books because they are fresh, original, and funny. They don't preach; they entertain.

If those books aren't to your taste and you can't see why children would enjoy them, then you may have some difficulties finding a place in today's market.
 

Pat Waldron

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Hey Beach bunny, I like the enthusiasm here at the forum. My criticism is that the hype to sell books starts to overshadow story telling. How can a story affect someone's life or as you say change someone's life. My doctor wanted me to exercise more and he told me this story. He was at a convention in San Francisco, had the whole day to himself and wanted to go running. He thought he would use the Golden Gate bridge as his goal and off he went. He jogged most of the day and saw just about all of the city on his way. When he got back to the hotel, he was somewhat embarrassed to be all sweaty infront of his doctor friends. When he checked out Mapquest, he discovered he had ran over 23 miles. His point was that exercise is more than a routine, it's an adventure. So, I wentout the next day and rollerbladed to Chicago's Adler Planetarium and back. It was thirty miles. I have lost weight. And my doctor never published a single book:)

I am sure many writers have many stories they have never published. My goal is to write the best stories regardless how marketable they are. Commercially viable is the term. I write a lot of stories about non-conformity and I am sure they are difficult to sell. They do not always have happy endings or big jokes, but I am working on it. I just wrote a story last night that was so powerful. The end included a separation from family. Is there a category of picture books that deals with that? As I wrote above, I was struck how a stack of picture books I read Saturday at the bookstore just pandered to conformity, the message seemed to be you can start out different but you need to show you are just like everyone else. It just seemed too much. It made me think of how educators try to teach children to take risks and find so many are unwilling to try.
 

Pat Waldron

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Umm....

I use Mo Willems' and Laura Numeroff's (Mouse a Cookie) books in my first grade class every year. Never in a million years did I detect the faintest whiff of conformity in either! The mouse isn't supposed to be in school. Joining in is subversive when you don't belong! And if sharing equals conformity, well, it still beats selfishness.

But that's not even the point. The point is that children LOVE those authors! The combination of kindness and silliness appeals to boys and girls alike. Those authors sell millions of books because they are fresh, original, and funny. They don't preach; they entertain.

If those books aren't to your taste and you can't see why children would enjoy them, then you may have some difficulties finding a place in today's market.

Hey Judscotkev. I like your enthuiasm. I like reading all types of books and forgive me for dissecting them minutely. I am sure children love them. They are easy to read and fun. I admit that I will have difficulties finding a place for many of my stories. I doubt many of them are marketable. But they are my stories. I believe everyone should sing their own song. I have written stories with strong conformist plot lines. My point is that people can see through them. Wouldn't it be great to write books that support the reader's need to be different?

I still have the same take. The mouse acts like a child is supposed to in Numeroff's books, to do their best in school. Many children say they don't like school, but the conforming mouse lavishly joins in all of the activities and steals the show.

Here's an excellent example, Thidwick the Bighearted Moose by Dr. Seuss. Thidwick is a story where all of the forest animals take refuge in a moose's antlers. The animals all get shot and mounted at the end of the story when Thidwick sheds his antlers while being chased by hunters. It was later made into a short film where all of the animals escape. The message of the book is don't do what everyone else is doing, taking advantage of the moose. The message of the film is it is okay to take advantage of the moose. It becomes entertaining. If that is all you want to do? It is fine with me. Enjoy your fame and fortune. Nobody's ever heard of Dr.Seuss:) (good natured jibe.)
 

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Patrick Bhaldwraithe:
Professionalism is about becoming part of the establishment and is end oreinted, book sales.

You need to understand that publishing is a business. Publishers are concerned about making money. If they don't make money, they don't stay in business. To make money, they need to sell books. To sell books, they need to publish books that they think are going to sell. Therefore, they are always on the lookout for books that they think are going to sell.

Now, whilst I agree that some of the bigger publishers are mainly concerned with easy categorisation of books, there are plenty of smaller publishers out there that are more prepared to take a risk with their lists. Indeed, in the UK some of the most exciting books and some of the biggest prize winning books have come from the smaller publishers.

If you're looking to have a book published, then like it or not, you are becoming part of that business. To have a professional attitude in this context means that you appreciate where all of the other players are coming from and what that means for you and your manuscript and that you understand how the industry works.

Just because you are producing anti-conformity books doesn't automatically mean that a publisher isn't going to be interested in them. If you do sell a book to a publisher, don't assume that they're going to demand that you change the very essence of your book because they don't like your message (if they don't like your message, they won't buy it in the first place).

Bearing all this in mind, you also need to understand that in looking for an agent, you're looking for someone who can sell your book to a publisher because that's how they make their money (by taking a percentage of the sale). Therefore, you need an agent who thinks they can sell your book.

If none of that sits right with you, then stop looking for an agent and stop thinking about commercial publication. There are other avenues available to you, notably self-publishing where you can retain total control over your manuscript but at the risk of making very little money from it.

Patrick Bhaldwraithe:
I write a lot of stories about non-conformity and I am sure they are difficult to sell. They do not always have happy endings or big jokes, but I am working on it.

Write the story that you want to write, the way you want to write it. Don't try to second-guess what the industry is going to think of it. It's more important to have a well-polished manuscript that hangs together, than a jumbled clutter of crowd-pleasing effects that doesn't work.

I seriously object to your suggestions that because we're interested in actually making money from our work, we're in some way compromising our ideals or selling out our message and that there's something wrong with wanting to entertain.

My YA novel incorporates comments on the surveillance society, genetic engineering, celebrity, the nature of evil, man's inhumanity to man and notions of attractiveness amongst teenagers*. When I finish it, I want to sell it. If an agent or publisher doesn't want it but I've done the best job I can with it, then it'll go in a drawer whilst I work on my next novel (set on a South London council estate and involving harpies). And if that doesn't sell, then I'll work on my next one. And the next one. Until I write something that sells. None of that involves compromising the message I want to get across to my readership and if I can entertain some people whilst I'm doing it, then so much the better.

MM



* All that and demons too!
 

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I second every thing MM just said.
 

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My doctor wanted me to exercise more and he told me this story. (snip) I have lost weight. And my doctor never published a single book:)

I bet you or your insurance were paying the doctor a lot more than the cost of a picture book to tell you that story. :) What if he'd not bothered with medical school, not bothered with the business end of running a practice, because all he really wanted to do was tell people stories to change their lives? If he hadn't become a doctor, you wouldn't have gone to him for advice about your health, and you wouldn't even have heard the story.

The professionalism of being a doctor is what gave him the audience.

Like Beach Bunny said, for a story to change peoples' lives, they need to know it exists, and to get beyond family and friends, that generally happens through marketing, whether it's selling published books or becoming respected as a professional.
 

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Furthermore there are plenty of people out there telling health stories without being oppressed by the conventional medical industry. Some of them are helpful, some of them convince people to kill themselves by drinking vaste quantities of water. MDs can be overly conventional at time but that is because the mainstream approach has merit and increased (although not by any means perfect) safety. It also has the equivalent of editors in the form of the peer-reviewed, published-for-profit medical literature.
 

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Another simple way of advertising yourself, without getting an agent, is to have postcards made of one of your best pieces of work - something that defines your illustrating style. There are several websites that print postcards for fairly cheap. Throw your info on the back and even that the pic comes from a completed children's pb. Editors actually keep all the postcards and decorate their offices/cubes with them. And when something comes along PB-wise, they look through them to find someone's style that matches the book. A lot of illustrators get their first breaks going this route, and the fact that you are writing the stories as well, will make it even better. Editors prefer to work with writers/illustrators over just a writer.

Postcards:
www.vistaprint.com

Right now they are having a weekend sale where you can get 100 postcards for free. I think I'm reading that right because it sounds too good to be true! And no, I don't work for vistaprint.

I can also vouch for Vistaprint...excellent prices and good, prompt quality. And I don't work for Vistaprint either =P
 

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Hi Patrick,
I'm a little late to the party, but wasn't your original question about how to get an agent to represent you? If that's not what you are still interested in, no problem. How can we help you here? Lots of people on this forum are very successful, published children's writers. Many more are in various stages of creation, revision, and submitting. Most are extremely gracious and generous with their expertise and advice. If you have questions, please ask away.