First Person Narrative - Selecting a voice

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Shamisen

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Hello eveyone.
I'm so desperately glad I have found this forum - being a writer can be lonely and I have so many questions with no-one to ask.

Currently I am writing a YA novel told through split narrative first-person. Crucially (or not) it is set in Victorian London. The two characters are quite opposite to one another. We have Tom, an 18 year old middle-class boy who speaks fairly well - he uses a few colloquialisms when retelling his story, is laid back with a dry sense of humour, an unreliable narrator (he elaborates his stories excessively) with a good nature and a positive outlook, to all intents and purposes an educated man with a 'good' speaking voice. I am not so concerned with his voice for the moment. I wouldn't say he speaks in an authentically Victorian way but this is a conscious decision. Let's just say I am interested in the era but not in the Victorian 'grandiose verbage' - why use one word when you can use 20, eh? Because it slows the story down something terrible, that's why!!!

My problem character is Peg. She is ex-workhouse, slum-dwelling. A young, 16 year old prostitute with little education, raised amongst thieves and drunks in London's East End (not all Eastenders are thieves and drunks, I'd like to point out. Some are tarts too (kidding!!)) Oh, and to my American friends - 16 is legal in the UK. Not sure if it was back then... need to check that out.

Anyway, of course it would place strain on the realms of credibilty for Peg to 'speak' (in her repeated speech and story-telling voice) like an Oxbridge graduate. But having her speak in a normal, neutral dialect didn't quite fit. I wanted to give a flavour of a cockney girl, example:

"I put me hands up to me hair," she says. (To take that further would be "I put me 'ands up to me 'air," she says, but I didn't want to go overboard.)
or
Saying "Di'n't" instead of "Didn't" (or would it not look strange to write "dint", as this is how it would be pronounced?)

My problem is that now I'm getting along with her narrative I find myself becoming a little irritated by all the 'replace "my" with "me"' etc. It feels cliched and too much - like I'm just a twee, talentless hack trying too hard. Yet at the same time, writing in the Queen's English doesn't fit her character or her upbringing. The good thing is that I have Tom's 'proper' narrative to balance things out, but if she's starting to irritate the author...

I would really appreciate your advice.

Gabby
 

Soccer Mom

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Hi Gabby and welcome to AW. I'm going to move this to Basic Writing Questions. I think you'll get some good help there.

Happy Writing!
 

IceCreamEmpress

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The age of consent in the UK was 12 at the start of Victoria's reign; it was raised to 13 in 1875, and to 16 in 1885, mostly because of agitation from the press and from activists against child prostitution.

If you want a contemporary perspective on how the poor people of London talked in those days, I suggest you read some of Henry Mayhew's London Labour and the London Poor. If you want a contemporary perspective on how middle-class teenaged boys talked in those days, I suggest you read Tom Brown's Schooldays, by Thomas Hughes, or The Adventures of Mr. Verdant Green by Cuthbert Bede.

I think the full texts of all of these 19th-century books are available online.
 

Round John Virgin

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'Ello, luv. Don't b'leev ah've 'ad the pleasure! Do sty for tea and chat us up. D'ya fancy a quick shag? We can smoke a fag, watch a bit of the telly, then it's cheery-bye and Bob's yer uncle, innit? Oh bleedin 'ell, 'ere comes the vicar. :D

I see what you mean, Gabby. By the way, I don't believe we have met--so welcome to AW. I'm Mike.

How far into Peg's narrative are you? Does she share equal time in the story with Tom? My inclination is that their contrasting voices could be a good thing. I'd push ahead with her for awhile. It might help to try to find ways to stay true to her voice but also minimize the apostrophes (for example, say bleedin instead of bleedin'--or any other "ing" word where the final g is dropped).

It could also help to alternate their narratives frequently, since the vernaculars are so different. It's been years since I read John Fowles' The Collector, but as I remember, he opened with a lengthy section in the voice of Frederick, the kidnapper, then an equally long one with Miranda's diary. I rather liked that, but I don't recall that their voices were that far apart. You might need to switch more often.

I'd love to read part of your story sometime (if I'm allowed a few glasses of wine to help me through Tom's excessive elaborations!). ;)
 

maestrowork

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To me, the voice is very important in first person narrative. And if you're writing a cockney prostitute in Victorian England, you should really do it right.

So my question is, how important is it to write both characters in first person? Would you consider 3rd limited? Because if you can't get the voice of one character right, or if you find her voice irritating, it may not be a good candidate for 1st person.
 
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DeusExMachina770

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watch movies with similar characters, read books with similar characters, do some research on what the average prostitute is like, perhaps go to a prison and interview an inmate in for prostitution....

if worse comes worst, scrap said attributes. you don't have to make her a perfectly literate, Oxford product like you said, but you can make her of average or below average intelligence and get away with dialectless dialogue
 

MumblingSage

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'Melusine' and 'The Virtu' by Sarah Monette are fantasy books with a similar disparity between character's voices--only the prostitue has a cultured voice (when he's not insane), and his brother has a quirky one. Only said brother's quirkyness comes more from phrases he uses than diction. Monette alternates narrators every chapter. You might want to find them at a bookstore or library and page through to see what you think of that method.
 

qwerty

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Hi Shamisen. As it happens, a London agent has just been through this with me because I have a Barbera Windsor-esq character in a book he's repping.

We agreed not to drop H's because it was too heavy. I've written "dint" (and other like words like int) without the apostrophe because they litter the words and, as you say, she speaks like that so, for her, it's not actually an abreviation. Me instead of my was approved. I'm sure you'll manage the vernacular/phraseology well enough.
 

wrinkles

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Here is what I believe about writing in dialect. It adds interest and flavor, but a little goes a long way. When the Peg character makes her first appearance, if you throw in a few "d'in't(s)" and a few "me 'air looks arful(s)" and maybe a reference by another character to the way she speaks, that should fix the sound of her speech in the mind of the reader. Courtesy of Eliza Doolittle and Michael Caine, I assume most people around the world know what a Cockney accent sounds like.

Readers will then "hear" this dialect whenever she speaks. As the book goes on you will need fewer and fewer of these visual clues. Just a few here and there to show her accent hasn't changed (or maybe it does, maybe she tries to upscale her speech to impress the boy). That's my opinion as a reader, anyway.
 

DeleyanLee

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I'm just wondering when the East End got the Cockney accent, since none of my reading has ever mentioned that Whitechapel fell in that district--or is it merely that Cockney has become the default/stereotypical low-class British accent du jour?
 

wrinkles

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I'm just wondering when the East End got the Cockney accent, since none of my reading has ever mentioned that Whitechapel fell in that district--or is it merely that Cockney has become the default/stereotypical low-class British accent du jour?

I 'aven't the foggiest, guvna. Sorry, couldn't resist.
 

jkcates

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To me, the voice is very important in first person narrative. And if you're writing a cockney prostitute in Victorian England, you should really do it right.

So my question is, how important is it to write both characters in first person? Would you consider 3rd limited? Because if you can't get the voice of one character right, or if you find her voice irritating, it may not be a good candidate for 1st person.


I really like this advice. I think swiching to another POV for her parts of the story would be worth a try as I can see how the dialect might get cumbersome.
Another thing you might try is limiting the 'cockney' to maybe just a few words, and then be militant that every time they appear they are in dialect. This might be enough to suggest to the reader her speaking without getting in the way of the story. This is the method Twain uses a lot in his work.

Just a few cents worth, good luck
 

Shamisen

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Hi everyone!

Wow, I am overwhelmed, in the happiest way, by all of the replies I have received in response to my question! Thanks so much to everyone for taking the time out to reply to me - you have no idea how much I appreciate your help!

Soccer Mom - thanks for moving my post to the correct section, and sorry for my slip up! I hope I learn my way around here soon and don't annoy anyone along the way!

IceCreamEmpress - thanks very much for the info on the age of consent. 12 - wow, that's disturbing. I'm a strong believer that we shouldn't put modern values on historical motives, in the same way we shouldn't view other cultures purely through they eyes of our own, but nonetheless, I think I will keep everything legal by modern standards. There's no real need to be distasteful. Also, my novel will span the years 1884-1886 (probably - still at early stages and working on the time line), so the detail you have provided is extremely helpful. And thank you for the reading suggestions - I think you're right, it will help to immerse myself in the natural language as best I can. I will certainly give Mayhew a go.

And delightful to meet you too Mike, me old china! Fancy a quick shag, eh? You're a forward Round Virgin aren't you :D
Well, I am not so far into the narrative that I can't make alterations. I am only really beginning to break beyond the research phase - have written two full chapters as Peg and three as Tom, both still requiring much work. Currently they alternate chapter by chapter and will continue to do so, with a few exceptions where secondary characters will have a chapter to themselves. And I agree that the contrasting styles could well be a positive thing - to begin with they both have seperate storylines which will converge by the end of the first third of the novel. Until then, we start Peg's story very fast-paced and action filled, whilst Tom's story is slower, more exposition on his part, humourous whilst Peg's tale is dark and urgent (I like Tom - he's fun to write). I think, if I do this right, they'll compliment each other. And thanks for the offer to read my work :) Perhaps I'll use and abuse that kindness one day :)

Hi maestrowork. I agree totally that the voice needs to be right. I do genuinely believe that 1st person is right for both of them, although I would consider adjusting the narratives for occasional chapters - I think that variety of style would work and make the story interesting. Also, one of the themes of the novel is perception, so it would work there I think. But in my case I think I just need to experiment with what sounds best, work on it a bit more. I'm still at early stages.

Thanks for the suggestions DeusExMachina770. I think you're right - it isn't essential that she talks like a barrow girl, there's even a part of me that wonders if it's a bit cliched if she does. She probably would have talked with a cockney accent at some level, but maybe it isn't necessary to have it so blatant.

MumblingSage - thanks, they sound like really interesting novels! I'll try and find them. I suspect my love of this style is largely spurred by a YA novel called Stone Cold by Robert Swindells where the technique works exremely well. It would certainly help if I had a greater idea of how other writers handled the technique.

Qwerty - invaluable advice! Thank you so much, I find that extremely reassuring when I look at what I have already written. I think I might use "dint" instead of "di'n't" - it didn't ever feel quite right yet the word is such a true example of speech. Thank you again. I will remember that if, in the likely event, I carry on down the path I have already written.

Thank you Wrinkles (great user name :) ) that was one of the issues I was concerned about. Too much and it could very easily become overkill. Sometimes giving just the flavour is all that's needed. After all, I don't want my readers to feel patronised; nor do I want them to think my work is hackneyed.

DeleyanLee - interesting that you should mention Whitechapel - I had to recheck my original post to see whether or not I had already mentioned it - but a large part of my action is set in Whitechapel. Set in 1884-1886, Whitechapel...it's probably not hard to guess that my novel concerns Joseph Carey Merrick (aka The Elephant Man) and Jack the Ripper. Tom is actually an exhibit in a 'Freak Show' (I haven't found a more palatable way of saying that yet so, until I do, will have to run the risk of people thinking I'm a jerk for using the word freak in this context) and the plot of my novel concerns the two years Merrick 'disappeared' after his initial encounter with the surgeon Frederck Treves.
But regarding your question about Whitechapel being in the East End - it is, yes. At the end of Whitechapel Road is Mile End Road, and this is generally considered to be the point where the East End begins. A cockney is someone who originates from the East End but the word has now become synonymous with all Londoners. There is much debate on this. I may be wrong - my knowledge comes from my aunty, who is an eastender, and from having lived and worked in London for over four years, so I suppose I have relied on my learned knowledge and not researched the area as well as I might.
The cockney accent is the main stereotypical lower-class accent, true - but this tends to only be the case with those who are not from the UK. Outside the UK, accents tend to be used as;
Cockney - lower class, from anywhere in England (no!), cheeky, impudent, a bit humble, a bit saucy, untrustworthy, tartish (particularly 'tart's with a heart), servants.
Devonian - South west of England. Usually the accents of peasants, farmers, motherly women or 'earthy' people without pretention. Usually implied that the speakers are not very well educated. This is usually the stock 'rural' accent. Think Robin Hood; Prince of Thieves and how the peasants speak - very incorrectly (Nottingham folk having a completely different accent).
Apologies if you are from the UK - I couldn't tell, and certainly don't want to come across as patronising. I just hoped to be helpful. I am interested that you brought Whitechapel up though - what made you think of that?

jkcates - how valuable a few cents can be! I think limiting the cockney may be the way to go - I don't want every word to be an exercise in translation. But yes - militance is the key!!

Thanks everyone who's still with me :)
 

SLThomas

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perhaps go to a prison and interview an inmate in for prostitution....

I don't know if prostitution is still an offence that gets one in prison though...Maybe if the fines keep piling up?

Here usually it's a summon and a fine that one has 90 days to pay. Prison would be for other offences on top of solliciting (which is illegal-prostitution itself isn't).

Just me and my useless knowledge...
 
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