How to write for winning awards

HRH · Apr 21, 2005

I know I am not going to make myself very popular with this first post... but I need to ask..
my intro... I intend to start on my first full length novel.. aiming at 100,000 words.. sort of decided the topic on human relationships.. slightly thriller touch...

ok, the question is: what do judges look for in a work to give it a prize? more specifically, what do the judges for famous prizes, like booker or guardian, look for?

Jamesaritchie · Apr 21, 2005

Prizes

HRH said:
I know I am not going to make myself very popular with this first post... but I need to ask..
my intro... I intend to start on my first full length novel.. aiming at 100,000 words.. sort of decided the topic on human relationships.. slightly thriller touch...

ok, the question is: what do judges look for in a work to give it a prize? more specifically, what do the judges for famous prizes, like booker or guardian, look for?

Beats me. I'd say your best chance of learning this is to read as many novels as possible that have won big awards.

Fresie · Apr 21, 2005

Probably, they look for you -- that is, they look for something truly special they haven't seen before. Something they don't expect. So the "recipe" here is probably the same as for writing all good prose: be yourself and speak your mind. Don't try to please anyone or write to somebody else's taste. Just put your own soul into the bloody thing and see what happens. Fingers crossed.

James D. Macdonald · Apr 21, 2005

It has to be the best darned thing they read that year.

===================

Go read these books:

The Pulitzer Prize

1995 The Stone Diaries by Carol Shields
1996 Independence Day by Richard Ford
1997 Martin Dressler: The Tale of an American Dreamer by Steven Millhause
1998 American Pastoral by Philip Roth
1999 The Hours by Michael Cunningham
2000 Interpreter of Maladies by Jhumpa Lahiri
2001 The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay by Michael Chabon
2002 Empire Falls by Richard Russo
2003 Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides
2004 The Known World by Edward P. Jones

The National Book Award

1994 A Frolic of His Own - William Gaddis
1995 Sabbath's Theater - Philip Roth
1996 Ship Fever and Other Stories - Andrea Barrett
1997 Cold Mountain - Charles Frazier
1998 Charming Billy - Alice McDermott
1999 Waiting - Ha Jin
2000 In America - Susan Sontag
2001 The Corrections - Jonathan Franzen
2002 Three Junes - Julia Glass
2003 The Great Fire - Shirley Hazzard

Let us know when you've done, and what you've learned about what prize committees look for.

NeuroFizz · Apr 21, 2005

Don't write for anyone (judges), write from your passion. That way, all you have to do is put your pen to paper, hold on with all of your might and hope you stay within the margins. Also, I woudn't suggest you start by setting a word limit. Let the story unfold without worrying about how far along you are. That's the best way to get into the mid-story slump. If your story comes out at 50,000 words, you can beef it up later. The most important thing is to get to the end of that first draft.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 21, 2005

Prizes

James D. Macdonald said:
It has to be the best darned thing they read that year.

===================

Go read these books:

The Pulitzer Prize

1995 The Stone Diaries by Carol Shields
1996 Independence Day by Richard Ford
1997 Martin Dressler: The Tale of an American Dreamer by Steven Millhause
1998 American Pastoral by Philip Roth
1999 The Hours by Michael Cunningham
2000 Interpreter of Maladies by Jhumpa Lahiri
2001 The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay by Michael Chabon
2002 Empire Falls by Richard Russo
2003 Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides
2004 The Known World by Edward P. Jones

The National Book Award

1994 A Frolic of His Own - William Gaddis
1995 Sabbath's Theater - Philip Roth
1996 Ship Fever and Other Stories - Andrea Barrett
1997 Cold Mountain - Charles Frazier
1998 Charming Billy - Alice McDermott
1999 Waiting - Ha Jin
2000 In America - Susan Sontag
2001 The Corrections - Jonathan Franzen
2002 Three Junes - Julia Glass
2003 The Great Fire - Shirley Hazzard

Let us know when you've done, and what you've learned about what prize committees look for.

I've read six of the Pulitzers and four of the Nationals. I enjoyed most of them, but I learned prize committees are looking for what I don't write.

I believe the last time I read a Pulitzer novel that I believed I might have written was in '86 when McMurtry won with Lonesome Dove.

maestrowork · Apr 21, 2005

I'm surprised I have read quite a number of them, and I'm not an "avid" reader.

I have good taste.

Mark Anderson · Apr 21, 2005

maestrowork said:
I'm surprised I have read quite a number of them, and I'm not an "avid" reader.

I'm an avid reader and I've only heard of one of those books (Cold Mountain) and two of the authors (Roth, Sontag). I am illet...iliterete...dum. :Wha:

mdin · Apr 21, 2005

I think it should be mentioned that the book needs to be well-published, first off. These prizes are all something that came after publication. There are a couple legitimate prizes out there for unpublished works, but the odds of winning any of those are quite a bit slimmer than the odds of getting it published, especially if it's good enough to win such a prize in the first place.

Write the book first. Then worry about getting it published. After that, let your publisher worry about entering it for those prizes. If you're the one that has to submit everything for a major book award, you're probably on a fool's errand. I was reading something about the Booker prize a while back where they were forced to limit publishers to only three entries because they were getting so many.

Good luck.

Julian Black · Apr 21, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
I've read six of the Pulitzers and four of the Nationals. I enjoyed most of them, but I learned prize committees are looking for what I don't write.

Same here. I read and enjoy a lot of stuff that wins awards, but I don't write it. Not even close.

I tried to write that sort of thing, and even managed to finish a novel last year, but by the time I was halfway through it I'd lost all interest in it. I rescued one character before consigning the ms. to the depths of my desk, where it now does a fine job keeping the whiskey and junk food stash from sliding to the back of the drawer.

Now I'm writing the kinds of things I want to read, but can't find enough of on my bookstore shelves. For me, it's the only thing worth writing anymore.

maestrowork · Apr 21, 2005

The reason why I have heard of and read some of these books is that I also watch a lot of movies, and many of these "award-winning" books eventually get made into Oscar-nominated films, such as The Hours, Cold Mountain, In America, Empire Falls, etc. I'm a Michael Chabon fan so that's not really a surprise there. I have read reviews of The Correction, Three Junes and Middlesex to pique my interest. I don't write books like them, but some day I'd love to write a book worthy for an Oscar-caliber adaptation... here's to dreaming.

HRH · Apr 22, 2005

wow

thats about the only word that comes to me... had no idea there would be 10 replies so soon

thanx all...

i agree with all here.. write the book with your heart, get it published, and if the publisher thinks it is good enough, they will take it from there...

by the way, what, if any, is the agents role here? also, this is my first serious attempt at a novel, and i really do want to see it published... bestseller lists, awards et all are secondary.. so please tell me how useful is an agent, and how to go about getting one?

Julian Black · Apr 22, 2005

Start with On the Getting of Agents at Making Light--read the comments as well as TNH's original blog entry.

Here at AW, there's always the Ask the Agent forum, with threads on various topics, as well as the Ask the Agent mega-thread. There's tons of information there, and of course you can always post questions.

And as if you needed more homework, head back over to Making Light and read Slushkiller and the subsequent comments. It's not specifically about getting an agent, but it is an education in why manuscripts get rejected--or accepted--by publishers. I can't recommend it enough.

Liam Jackson · Apr 22, 2005

A Bit (okay, a lot) Off Topic for Julian

May I ask how you became interested in cat-vacuuming, and if you've ever considered going pro?

James D. Macdonald · Apr 22, 2005

HRH said:
... so please tell me how useful is an agent, and how to go about getting one?

An agent is really, really useful.

You get one by writing a good book, then submitting it to the agent following that agent's stated preferences.

DO NOT PAY AN AGENT AN UPFRONT FEE!

Kate Nepveu · Apr 22, 2005

To Julian:

LiamJackson said:
May I ask how you became interested in cat-vacuuming, and if you've ever considered going pro?

Hey! If there's a pro league of cat vacuumers, why wasn't I informed?

Julian Black · Apr 22, 2005

LiamJackson said:
May I ask how you became interested in cat-vacuuming, and if you've ever considered going pro?

Liam, honey, I was born to vacuum cats. Right now I have seven of them, so there's always bound to be at least one that needs vacuuuming.

As for going pro--I thought I had to sit down and write books in order to support my cat-vacuuming. Does this mean I can just vacuum whenever I want, and not have to bother with the whole writing thing? Wow...

James D. Macdonald · Apr 22, 2005

I've met would-be writers who, without ever starting a work, had mapped out year by year the advances they would receive and the awards they would win.

This led to disappointment.

Write the best you can. Submit your works to the best places you can. What more can any of us do?

Maryn · Apr 22, 2005

I have, too, Jim. While a certain amount of confidence can be helpful to anyone, even us reclusive introverted writers (who else can sit alone in a room for so long?), unfounded confidence doesn't help. Writing the book, that helps!

Maryn

maestrowork · Apr 22, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
I've met would-be writers who, without ever starting a work, had mapped out year by year the advances they would receive and the awards they would win.

This led to disappointment.

Write the best you can. Submit your works to the best places you can. What more can any of us do?

DARN! I was all set to receive my Pulitzer in 2006, and a Nobel in 2008!

DARN.

Julian Black · Apr 22, 2005

maestrowork said:
DARN! I was all set to receive my Pulitzer in 2006, and a Nobel in 2008!

Hey, I was all set to publish my first book by the time I was 20, and be raking in the big bucks as a Famous Author by the time I was 30. I can't remember when I was supposed to get the Pulitzer, but it may have been by the time I was 40.

Hmph. I've still got two more years, haven't I?

[goes back to writing]

Maryn · Apr 22, 2005

Just remember, when you get that Pulitzer, that Mad magazine will give a free one-year subscription to anyone photographed with you and holding an issue of Mad.

Really! (The father of one of our kids' friends won, and did this for anyone who asked, starting with the libraries.)

Maryn

HRH · Apr 22, 2005

Julian Black said:
Start with On the Getting of Agents at Making Light--read the comments as well as TNH's original blog entry.

Here at AW, there's always the Ask the Agent forum, with threads on various topics, as well as the Ask the Agent mega-thread. There's tons of information there, and of course you can always post questions.

And as if you needed more homework, head back over to Making Light and read Slushkiller and the subsequent comments. It's not specifically about getting an agent, but it is an education in why manuscripts get rejected--or accepted--by publishers. I can't recommend it enough.

hey julian, thnx a ton for those links... i was up most of the night going thru those pages....

James D. Macdonald said:
An agent is really, really useful.
You get one by writing a good book, then submitting it to the agent following that agent's stated preferences.
DO NOT PAY AN AGENT AN UPFRONT FEE!

AND

James D. Macdonald said:
I've met would-be writers who, without ever starting a work, had mapped out year by year the advances they would receive and the awards they would win.
This led to disappointment.
Write the best you can. Submit your works to the best places you can. What more can any of us do?

the would-be-writer sounds suspiciously like me

yes, i suppose finishing (to my satisfaction) the book should be first priority, then finding a good agent... but even before that, finding a publishing house that deals in books of type that i will write...

is there any listing of publishers with their genres? or is it the good old google way? am okay with googling.. but who wud not want things on a platter

?

by the way, also please please help me with this one... is there anything like a currently-in-style-topic or is that just something best ignored?

Liam Jackson · Apr 23, 2005

Julian/Kate

I made a living for many years "herding black cats" (I don't know when or where the military use of this phrase originated, but looking back, I can see that it was damn sure appropriate.)

Neither am I sure 'professional cat vacuuming' pays anything, but it'll look good on that Pulitzer bio for you, Julian. Personally, I'm boycotting any awards that feature a 'z' in the title. It's a personal thing. Therefore, I'm aspiring to a Stoker or Hugo, if not in this lifetime, then another.

Kate, application kit for professional membership is in the mail.

pianoman5 · Apr 23, 2005

HRH said:
the would-be-writer sounds suspiciously like me
yes, i suppose finishing (to my satisfaction) the book should be first priority, then finding a good agent... but even before that, finding a publishing house that deals in books of type that i will write...

is there any listing of publishers with their genres? or is it the good old google way? am okay with googling.. but who wud not want things on a platter ?

by the way, also please please help me with this one... is there anything like a currently-in-style-topic or is that just something best ignored?

At the risk of sounding snarky, HRH, (should we call you "Your Majesty" or will "Your Highness" do?) the currently-in-style topic is: Capital Letters.

They're an awfully bourgeois convention, I know, but a surprising number of editors have learned to treat them as worthwhile components of the written word and more or less insist on them, in the right places. And to the best of my knowledge, all prize-winning authors use them liberally.

(Edit addition) Of course, in an informal environment like this nobody gives a rat's about the strict proprieties of form. But if you want to be a writer it's not a bad idea to get into the habit of writing correctly -- it saves you a lot of time in proofing/editing that is better spent on creative stuff.

How to write for winning awards

She Who Runs The Waves

Your Genial Uncle

The grad students did it

Fear the Death Ray

The late, the great XThe NavigatorX

Will Read Slush for Food.

Fear the Death Ray

Will Read Slush for Food.

Heathen Horde Elder

Your Genial Uncle

Vacuumer of Cats

Will Read Slush for Food.

Your Genial Uncle

Not Any More

Fear the Death Ray

Will Read Slush for Food.

Not Any More

Heathen Horde Elder

Means well