Does knowing the fates of your characters...

Oddsocks · Jul 30, 2008

...ever make writing them difficult?

Not so much the fates themselves, but everything leading up to that point?

I had an idea for a story yesterday that I'm feeling really excited about. There's one character who, when it comes to the crunch, discovers he is a coward, and betrays the others. But this is quite late in the story, and until that point, he has to be genuinely likeable - neither he nor the other characters doubt his loyalty or integrity. And I'm wondering how well I'll be able to write him throughout this earlier part, while knowing what will become of him.

So, does anyone else find that knowing what is to come makes writing earlier events potentially difficult? And, if so, how do you deal with it?

JoNightshade · Jul 30, 2008

No, I think it's great - because then you can seed in all those little details that make the reader, when they come to the Big Revelation, look back over what they've read and think "Ohhhhh. I should have seen that coming!"

On the other hand, it's fun to be surprised by your characters. For 6 drafts now I've had one character who accidentally killed someone like 20 years prior to the main action. I'm working on draft 7 (a rewrite - see sig) and suddenly this guy is like, "Oh, by the way? Yeah, that wasn't an accident. I meant to kill her." Holy plot twist, Batman!

roncouch · Jul 30, 2008

Oddsocks said:
...ever make writing them difficult?

So, does anyone else find that knowing what is to come makes writing earlier events potentially difficult? And, if so, how do you deal with it?

Odd,

Can't say I've had the identical problem, but did have a character whacked, and in the following book was sorry I had done so - so I created a body-double scenario that allowed the dead character to re-appear. The point I'm making is you, as the author and creator, can do pretty much what you want. If your story makes sense to you, it will make sense to readers who will never know it may have been difficult to write.

Teena · Jul 30, 2008

Only if they discover what you have in mind for them and take over the story.....

In the outline & overall plot of the book my MC is a conniving bad-girl who eventually causes the death of her husband due to her cavalier actions and repentently commits suicide near the end of the book. I started out trying to make her pretty arrogant and selfish, but that's not working out too well. Now she's becoming more of a sympathetic character with a selfish streak. Who knows how it will wind up in the end....not me, I'm just the writer.

sadron · Jul 31, 2008

Not really. I must know their fate or I can't write for them.
I wish I could surprise the reader.

Oddsocks · Jul 31, 2008

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

JoNightshade said:
No, I think it's great - because then you can seed in all those little details that make the reader, when they come to the Big Revelation, look back over what they've read and think "Ohhhhh. I should have seen that coming!"

Well, there's that too, which, so long as it works, will be fun. I'll have to work on my subtle foreshadowing.

On the other hand, it's fun to be surprised by your characters. For 6 drafts now I've had one character who accidentally killed someone like 20 years prior to the main action. I'm working on draft 7 (a rewrite - see sig) and suddenly this guy is like, "Oh, by the way? Yeah, that wasn't an accident. I meant to kill her." Holy plot twist, Batman!

Teena said:
Only if they discover what you have in mind for them and take over the story.....

In the outline & overall plot of the book my MC is a conniving bad-girl who eventually causes the death of her husband due to her cavalier actions and repentently commits suicide near the end of the book. I started out trying to make her pretty arrogant and selfish, but that's not working out too well. Now she's becoming more of a sympathetic character with a selfish streak. Who knows how it will wind up in the end....not me, I'm just the writer.

And, there's that as well - I'm assuming things will turn out as I currently have them planned, but I could be wrong!

~grace~ · Jul 31, 2008

I tend to like my characters more the more deviant and twisted and un-sympathetic they get. I mean, I'd hate to meet them, but they're more interesting and juicy.

My only real problem is when I know I'm going to kill a character I really really like. In one of my scrapped WIPS, I had a group of boys and two of them had to die about halfway through in order to motivate the MC, but I LOVED THEM SO and writing even a word about them was painful because I was like NO NO NO WAAHHHH.

Mr Flibble · Jul 31, 2008

I don't know that it makes writing about them difficult ( other than any new techniques you'd have to use)

I've got one guy at the moment, and bad stuff is happening to him and it will only get worse. I just want to hug him all the time, and tell him it'll be alright even if it's a lie...

But it doesn't make the writing difficult.

Shadow_Ferret · Jul 31, 2008

Oddsocks said:
Does knowing the fates of your characters...ever make writing them difficult?

I never know the fates of my characters. I'm often as surprised by the outcome as, I hope, the reader will be.

You're working under the assumption that everyone outlines and pre-writes. Some of us don't and write by the seat-of-our-pants.

Reilly616 · Jul 31, 2008

There is no such thing as fate...

~grace~ · Jul 31, 2008

ohhh yeah desire to hug characters is really overwhelming sometimes. they'd prolly shoot me tho. shoot me dead.

Indy Tarquinson · Jul 31, 2008

Ah, I'm not quite sure, what I really hate though is when I realize that a character suddenly is doomed to die at this part and I didn't mean for it to happen, and I'm all like NOES...but I cannot help it because the plot demands it.

I do half my writing outlining and half seat-of-my-pants, cause I feel like I can start out a mystery better if I don't know how it's going to end myself lol. That way later when I do get to the ending I can sneak in all the proper clues but at least the heavy mystery will be there.

Weirdly enough I'm trying hard to write a surly, tough character who will end up betraying my MCs but he keeps getting nicer and nicer on me. He must really want to be friends with my MCs, I suppose.

Alpha Echo · Jul 31, 2008

JoNightshade said:
No, I think it's great - because then you can seed in all those little details that make the reader, when they come to the Big Revelation, look back over what they've read and think "Ohhhhh. I should have seen that coming!"

On the other hand, it's fun to be surprised by your characters. For 6 drafts now I've had one character who accidentally killed someone like 20 years prior to the main action. I'm working on draft 7 (a rewrite - see sig) and suddenly this guy is like, "Oh, by the way? Yeah, that wasn't an accident. I meant to kill her." Holy plot twist, Batman!

I agree.

tehuti88 · Jul 31, 2008

Oddsocks said:
So, does anyone else find that knowing what is to come makes writing earlier events potentially difficult? And, if so, how do you deal with it?

Well, sometimes. The only example I can think of at the moment is a character of mine who starts out "bad" and loyal to a bad guy but I gradually have to make him realize how wrong his mentor is, so he joins the good guys. It's rather difficult, but I don't think it's quite because I know what has to happen. It's just hard to make somebody do a complete turnaround in a convincing manner that isn't too easy or cliched. The character himself makes mention of this when he asks the protagonist, what if SHE had to turn on her beloved teacher, realizing that everything she's ever learned is wrong? It's hard to pull off sometimes.

Aside from things like that, though, knowing what is to ultimately become of some characters doesn't seem to make writing the early stuff any harder. If anything it helps me know how I have to structure the earlier writing to make the ending convincing, like with the above.

Re-reading your post, I think maybe this is the true issue with your own difficulty--not the fact that you know already how your character will turn out, but that you have to write this convincingly. As with any sort of writing, in any sort of situation, it's a challenge to write almost anything convincingly, when it involves a character's entire personality and worldview possibly changing. These are difficult subjects, so of course they're difficult to write.

One thing that helps is putting yourself in the conflicted character's mind from the beginning and trying to "live out" the changes he/she must go through personally. Always stop and ask, how would this person react to this? And remember that what they're going through can't be easy, either.

BTW, I do not outline or know most of what's going to happen in advance. But there are some things you just can't help knowing.

Oddsocks · Jul 31, 2008

Wow, lots of replies!

~grace~ said:
My only real problem is when I know I'm going to kill a character I really really like. In one of my scrapped WIPS, I had a group of boys and two of them had to die about halfway through in order to motivate the MC, but I LOVED THEM SO and writing even a word about them was painful because I was like NO NO NO WAAHHHH.

Ah, yes! I've had this problem too. I feel bad writing characters when I know horrible things are going to happen to them. It's a similar thing to my current problem, except this time it's not so much feeling bad because of what's going to happen to them as it is a question of how to relate to a character that I need to like now, but which I'll ultimately end up disliking (probably)?

Shadow_Ferret said:
I never know the fates of my characters. I'm often as surprised by the outcome as, I hope, the reader will be.

You're working under the assumption that everyone outlines and pre-writes. Some of us don't and write by the seat-of-our-pants.

I do know that some people don't plan or outline - I'd love to be like that myself, since I love being surprised when something does come up unexpectedly while writing (But I'm a planner since it's the plot that motivates me most). I guess the first post was just aimed at planners more - probably should have mentioned that.

~grace~ said:
ohhh yeah desire to hug characters is really overwhelming sometimes. they'd prolly shoot me tho. shoot me dead.

Given where their factual future comes from, that would be...unwise of them.

tehuti88 said:
Well, sometimes. The only example I can think of at the moment is a character of mine who starts out "bad" and loyal to a bad guy but I gradually have to make him realize how wrong his mentor is, so he joins the good guys. It's rather difficult, but I don't think it's quite because I know what has to happen. It's just hard to make somebody do a complete turnaround in a convincing manner that isn't too easy or cliched.

See, in your situation, I'd be inclined to make that character more sympathetic from the outset than I might have intended (only I don't mind that scenario as much, since I'm partial to sympathetic bad guys to begin with). And that's kind of the reverse of my difficulty - I don't want this character to be unsympathetic throughout the larger part of the story. Which brings me to:

Re-reading your post, I think maybe this is the true issue with your own difficulty--not the fact that you know already how your character will turn out, but that you have to write this convincingly. As with any sort of writing, in any sort of situation, it's a challenge to write almost anything convincingly, when it involves a character's entire personality and worldview possibly changing. These are difficult subjects, so of course they're difficult to write.

Yes, this is definitely a part of the problem. How do I stop my knowledge of the character's later actions from influencing how I write the earlier him too much? I'm trying to find a way to strike a balance between making the character believable as a likeable good guy, and yet also making his later actions believable when considered in relation to his personality and the things that happen to him during the story.

One thing that helps is putting yourself in the conflicted character's mind from the beginning and trying to "live out" the changes he/she must go through personally. Always stop and ask, how would this person react to this? And remember that what they're going through can't be easy, either.

That sounds like excellent advice to me - I'll definitely be giving that a go.

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone!

Liosse de Velishaf · Jul 31, 2008

Oddsocks said:
...ever make writing them difficult?

Not so much the fates themselves, but everything leading up to that point?

I had an idea for a story yesterday that I'm feeling really excited about. There's one character who, when it comes to the crunch, discovers he is a coward, and betrays the others. But this is quite late in the story, and until that point, he has to be genuinely likeable - neither he nor the other characters doubt his loyalty or integrity. And I'm wondering how well I'll be able to write him throughout this earlier part, while knowing what will become of him.

So, does anyone else find that knowing what is to come makes writing earlier events potentially difficult? And, if so, how do you deal with it?

It makes it very hard for me to kill people. I want to invest in the character, but when I know they die...

LilliCray · Aug 1, 2008

I very rarely know what's going to happen to my characters in the end. I got this one idea recently, though, where I know that my MC either has a complete or an almost complete mental breakdown because her two younger siblings are killed. I'm having problems showing the cracking of her mental well-being between the discoveries of the bodies.

Amazingly enough, that's the most evil thing I've ever put a character through. Kind of makes me feel evil.

Does knowing the fates of your characters...

Oddsocks

JoNightshade

has finally arrived

roncouch

The Couchmeister

Teena

Bennie's Mom

sadron

Writing Dark Fantasy

Oddsocks

~grace~

the good old days

Mr Flibble

They've been very bad, Mr Flibble

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

Reilly616

~grace~

the good old days

Indy Tarquinson

Alpha Echo

I should be writing.

tehuti88

Mackinac Island Fanatic

Oddsocks

Liosse de Velishaf

LilliCray

Plot? What plot?