Publication of Novels vs. Short Stories

CBumpkin · Jul 27, 2008

I've read many posts on message boards and different websites, and heard from authors, that publishing short stories is more difficult than getting a novel published.

Have you found this to be true? If so, why do you think that is? If you have the opposite experience, I'd love to hear about it, too.

blacbird · Jul 27, 2008

I've had the identical lack of success with both.

caw

steveg144 · Jul 27, 2008

CBumpkin said:
I've read many posts on message boards and different websites, and heard from authors, that publishing short stories is more difficult than getting a novel published.

Have you found this to be true? If so, why do you think that is? If you have the opposite experience, I'd love to hear about it, too.

I've gotten two short stories and four short plays published, along with nine non-fiction essays. This with just under five years of trying. Count of published novels: zero.

WendyNYC · Jul 27, 2008

Do you mean publishing a book of short stories, or getting a short story published in a literary magazine?

If the former, I'd agree that a novel would be easier to get published.

If the latter, it depends on where you are submitting. There are thousands of lit mags, and getting published at Small Potatoes Online Review would be a lot easier than Ploughshares or the New Yorker.

Phot's Moll · Jul 27, 2008

I've had some short stories published, but no novels. On the other hand, I've only had one novel rejected, but have had lots of short stories rejected.

Cybernaught · Jul 27, 2008

Haven't written a novel yet but I haven't had much success with short stories outside of non-paying markets. Then again, I haven't submitted much, either.

CBumpkin · Jul 27, 2008

WendyNYC said:
Do you mean publishing a book of short stories, or getting a short story published in a literary magazine?

If the former, I'd agree that a novel would be easier to get published.

If the latter, it depends on where you are submitting. There are thousands of lit mags, and getting published at Small Potatoes Online Review would be a lot easier than Ploughshares or the New Yorker.

That's an important distinction. Come to think of it, I'm not certain which case was being referred to.

Do short story writers submit their work to publishers or should they have an agent first? I'm new in the short story world but have often been told what I'm writing would make a great short story. I'm considering giving it a go.

kuwisdelu · Jul 27, 2008

CBumpkin said:
Do short story writers submit their work to publishers or should they have an agent first? I'm new in the short story world but have often been told what I'm writing would make a great short story. I'm considering giving it a go.

Usually you submit short stories directly to the magazines without an agent.

WendyNYC · Jul 27, 2008

kuwisdelu said:
Usually you submit short stories directly to the magazines without an agent.

Yes, with maybe one exception being the New Yorker (I know it's possible to submit to them directly, but your chances are probably much better with an agent.)

Duotrope.com has a good searchable list of lit mages, both print and online.

kuwisdelu · Jul 27, 2008

WendyNYC said:
Yes, with maybe one exception being the New Yorker (I know it's possible to submit to them directly, but your chances are probably much better with an agent.)

I'd say most magazines your chances are much better with an agent. Not necessary for most, of course. But I didn't think anyone was crazy enough to start with The New Yorker without an agent but me... :crazy:

IceCreamEmpress · Jul 27, 2008

kuwisdelu said:
I'd say most magazines your chances are much better with an agent. Not necessary for most, of course. But I didn't think anyone was crazy enough to start with The New Yorker without an agent but me...

The New Yorker has a huge slushpile. The fiction editors do not read it personally; that's a job for interns.

WendyNYC · Jul 27, 2008

kuwisdelu said:
I'd say most magazines your chances are much better with an agent. Not necessary for most, of course. But I didn't think anyone was crazy enough to start with The New Yorker without an agent but me...

I actually do know of someone who was published in the NYer from the slushpile. This was years ago, though, and under a different fiction editor. From what I understand, that rarely (if ever) happens anymore.

CBumpkin · Jul 27, 2008

kuwisdelu said:
I'd say most magazines your chances are much better with an agent. Not necessary for most, of course. But I didn't think anyone was crazy enough to start with The New Yorker without an agent but me...

See, I don't think that's crazy at all. Start from the top of your most wanted list and work your way down. You just never know.

I'm assuming that submitting short stories is the same as it is with novels and freelance articles - no simultaneous submissions? That's the biggest bummer for me as a writer. I understand why publishers have that rule for their sakes, but, as the writer, I still feel I should have the right to submit my work to as many publishers as I want to and let them bid for it if they want it. Writers make so little as it is. (Who can live on 1960's wages?) Alas, we don't make the rules but "joyfully" submit to them with our tin cups in hand and sorrowful looks on our dirty faces.

ideagirl · Jul 28, 2008

kuwisdelu said:
I'd say most magazines your chances are much better with an agent. Not necessary for most, of course. But I didn't think anyone was crazy enough to start with The New Yorker without an agent but me...

Your chances might be better, but that's purely hypothetical because agents generally won't represent you for that. Here's why: because agents get paid as a cut of what you get paid--and the overwhelming majority of magazines pay zilch, or near-zilch, for short stories. Even the New Yorker, Harper's, etc., pay somewhere in the $1000-$5000 range, which just isn't enough to get an agent involved--what, they should send your stories out for the possibility of eventually netting somewhere in the neighborhood of $100-$700?!

They'll do it if they're also representing you for a novel or a short story collection, and if you have an agent I suppose you could mention it in your cover letter ("Dear Actual Name of Real Editor: My agent, Binky Urban,* thought you might like the enclosed story..."), but generally speaking, when it comes to submitting short stories to magazines you're on your own.

* Pipe dream

Phot's Moll · Jul 28, 2008

I think you should always sub to the market you most want your work to appear in (assuming it meets their criteria) if it's rejected you can always try it elsewhere.

heatheringemar · Jul 28, 2008

Concerning sim. subs and multiple subs, always check the magazine/publisher guidelines. Always.

Now as for getting published, well, it's hard no matter how you slice it! lol. Personally, I found it terribly hard to get published in the lit. mags, but that's probably because I write genre fiction, and lit. mags rarely want genre. On the other hand, I've had quite a bit of luck getting my shorts published with ebook publishers.

So, I'd say what it boils down to is: how well does your story fit in with the places you're trying to sell?

As for short story collections vs. novels, novels do tend to be the easier sell. Unless you're Stephen King.....

kuwisdelu · Jul 28, 2008

ideagirl said:
Your chances might be better, but that's purely hypothetical because agents generally won't represent you for that. Here's why: because agents get paid as a cut of what you get paid--and the overwhelming majority of magazines pay zilch, or near-zilch, for short stories. Even the New Yorker, Harper's, etc., pay somewhere in the $1000-$5000 range, which just isn't enough to get an agent involved--what, they should send your stories out for the possibility of eventually netting somewhere in the neighborhood of $100-$700?!

They'll do it if they're also representing you for a novel or a short story collection, and if you have an agent I suppose you could mention it in your cover letter ("Dear Actual Name of Real Editor: My agent, Binky Urban,* thought you might like the enclosed story..."), but generally speaking, when it comes to submitting short stories to magazines you're on your own.

* Pipe dream

You're right, you really can't get an agent just doing short stories. I was assuming one had an agent for a novel and happened to have some short stories, too.

Lusty_Goat · Jul 28, 2008

kuwisdelu said:
You're right, you really can't get an agent just doing short stories. I was assuming one had an agent for a novel and happened to have some short stories, too.

I believe Benjamin Percy got an agent for his short story collection. The short story collection is/was his first publication. He was discovered by his agent when he got a story accepted by the Paris Review. So it would be safe to say getting the stories out in reviews or lit journals could be a lilly pad of sorts.

MicheleLee · Aug 1, 2008

I have 5 shorts published (with three more accepted for a later date) and no novels published

I think the difference is mechanical and not a matter of one selling better than another. Shorts are written faster (it takes me about a month to have a short from idea to submission-worthy, it takes me about a year, working leisurely to have a novel from an idea to ready to submit), they are typically responded to faster (less to read, magazines often have more editors), and don't forget that many people trying to sell a novel go for an agent before a publisher which lengthens the time it takes a novel to sell, but short stories almost never require an agent to sell. On that last note that also means that if you are trying to sell shorts you're only managing your own stories, where as an agent has many clients to manage, which might slow things down if there's a sudden rush or glut. There's also the fact that many short story markets don't even require a cover letter while nearly all novel sales require a whole proposal, these days including but not limited to: query, synopsis, marketing plan...

caseyquinn · Aug 5, 2008

I think writers have a specific skill and will find it easy to publish in what they do best, and find it hard to get published in areas they are not strong. Dont mean to state the obvious but think it is a true statement.

I have had many short stories published but struggle to get any attention to my novel mostly because i feel my best writing is short writing. Somewhere in the 10,000 word range i tend to not have the ability to continue a good story.

Where as some people tend to write a LOT and can not write a strong good short story. They find the market hard. Same goes for those who try their hand at poetry. If you are good at it, you will find a market....

blacbird · Aug 5, 2008

caseyquinn said:
If you are good at it, you will find a market....

Of course, the only way to determine if you are "good at it" is if you do get something published. If you don't, by definition, you aren't "good at it".

caw

Phot's Moll · Aug 5, 2008

I wish it was easy to publish what we're good at - sadly that seems not to be the case.

There are a lot of good short stories (and long ones) that never get published.

caseyquinn · Aug 6, 2008

blacbird said:
Of course, the only way to determine if you are "good at it" is if you do get something published. If you don't, by definition, you aren't "good at it".

caw

I have to disagree... I would think you could be good at it and still not get published for a number of reasons. You are attempting to get published in the wrong market would be the #1. A good story will get published, writers just need to be patient and be willing to keep working on their story to get it where it needs to be, most importantly, find a publisher who has a similiar taste to what they write.

blacbird · Aug 6, 2008

caseyquinn said:
I have to disagree... I would think you could be good at it and still not get published for a number of reasons. You are attempting to get published in the wrong market would be the #1. A good story will get published, writers just need to be patient and be willing to keep working on their story to get it where it needs to be, most importantly, find a publisher who has a similiar taste to what they write.

So . . . by what criteria do you judge a story to be "good" if it doesn't get published?

caw

dfallon23 · Aug 6, 2008

I don't think the questions is a typical "if A is not B then B is not A" type of thing. You can be good at something and not succeed in it. And that's where it gets tricky to answer.

First off, I don't think anyone can clearly judge a work that they produced. There's simply too much emotional hold on it. Hopefully, everyone else can help judge it, though.

If this conversation is morphing into "what criteria makes a story "good"", then maybe it should be a separate thread on here because that is a discussion in and of itself.

Dave

Publication of Novels vs. Short Stories

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