Just what is Urban Fantasy?

It's basically fantasy in the real world. There's nothing I see about time periods.

Maybe something like the Salem Witch Trials in 1692, and there are actually witches casting spells on people. Or when George Washington grabs a genie from a lamp. Or Dragons are involved in WW2

Urban fantasy = here + now + city + magic. Contrast with contemporary fantasy = here + now + magic. Lily's examples are all historical fantasy = here + past + magic.

Straka said:

With that logic in mind, what would X be?

X = ([medieval + renaissance] - earth) + city + magic

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Depending on how and why you've written it, that could be New Weird, but the technology isn't quite advanced enough to be steampunk. The themes and tone of the novel will determine the subgenre from there. Could be straight high fantasy if you aren't trying to subvert or avert any tropes. If it's self-consciously amoral, it could be heroic fantasy or rapier-and-sorcery. If it's postapocalyptic, it could be dark fantasy.

While most urban fantasy takes place in the modern day, I don't think it's limited to a contemporary setting. There is (contemporary) urban fantasy and historical urban fantasy. But my question is, can there be futuristic urban fantasy?

For me, urban fantasy is a story about a supernatural creature (vampire, werewolf, shapeshifter, fey, genie, demon, angel, etc.), someone with supernatural powers (hunter/slayer, witch, psychic, etc.), or an ordinary human who stumbles upon the supernatural and how that character interacts with his/her world that's full of supernatural stuff (whether they solve crimes committed by black magic, catch a vampire serial killer, hunt the things that go bump in the night, try to expose the secrets of the supernatural world to the human world, etc.).

For some people, the city is a very important aspect of urban fantasy. But since I'm from a small city, and aside from living abroad, the largest city I've lived in has a population of 45-50,000, I use a setting that's more familiar to me, while still considering my writing to be urban fantasy.

The novel I'm working on has a lot of the elements that you see in urban fantasy, such as my main character is a fox shapeshifter, she can use magic, it's told in 1st person, the human world and the supernatural world are separated, most humans don't know about or believe in magic, there's a supernatural threat that affects both the human world and the supernatural world, it takes place mostly in cities . . . but it's set in the far future.

I consider my novel to be futuristic urban fantasy, but I don't know what other people would call it.

yttar, while I agree with you, I suspect your novel would be shelved as a science fiction novel (which it isn't) simply because it takes place in the future.

And I grew up in a small suburb of Dallas. Small meaning over two hundred thousand people. So yeah, I agree: 45-50K is tiny.

For additional reference, we've also discussed UF here:

What is Urban Fantasy?

here:

Steampunk and Urban Fantasy

and here:
Blurring Between Urban Fantasy and Paranormal Romance

I believe 1984 is a futuristic urban fantasy? Or is it a Sci-Fi.

BlueLucario said:

I believe 1984 is a futuristic urban fantasy? Or is it a Sci-Fi.

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There's no magic in 1984 that I can recall. That would have made it quite a different story indeed. It's a dystopia. In fact, with this book, George created his very own adjective: Orwellian. 1984 is a futuristic, Orwellian, dystopia.

I'd argue 1984 is a perfect example of real science fiction. It's a hypothetical study of the effect of technology on a human society.

SPMiller said:

I'd argue 1984 is a perfect example of real science fiction. It's a hypothetical study of the effect of technology on a human society.

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Yes and no. I always think of it as more a commentary about social issues than technological issues. Without the technology, Big Brother couldn't be watching you. However, the technology is the means to an end for this society. It isn't really about the technology; it's about government control.

CaroGirl said:

Yes and no. I always think of it as more a commentary about social issues than technological issues. Without the technology, Big Brother couldn't be watching you. However, the technology is the means to an end for this society. It isn't really about the technology; it's about government control.

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I fail to see how that differs from what I posted in any way Technology enables surveillance and similar government controls, and the novel studies those effects.

CaroGirl said:

Yes and no. I always think of it as more a commentary about social issues than technological issues. Without the technology, Big Brother couldn't be watching you. However, the technology is the means to an end for this society. It isn't really about the technology; it's about government control.

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Good sci-fi (or SF, or science fiction, or whatever-the-hell-we're-calling-it-this-week) is always about the people, not the tech, imho.

SPMiller said:

I fail to see how that differs from what I posted in any way Technology enables surveillance and similar government controls, and the novel studies those effects.

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Ah, well, you caught me. I don't really read Sci-fi at all. Does it show? *blinks and looks around* What the heck am I doing in this forum anyway?

I just spotted 1984, which is a novel I adore, and thought I'd throw in my .02, which is, apparently, not worth the copper it's stamped on.

Straka said:

"One of the appealing things about Urban Fantasy is that, as John Clute points out in the Encyclopedia of Fantasy, it is a mode of storytelling rather than a sub genre, and as such accommodates a variety of themes and approaches. Urban Fantasy is not restricted by genre limitations the way that cyberpunk, hardboiled detective fiction, the Western, and pirate romances (among others) are. Urban Fantasy can be about almost anything - and Paper Cities is an excellent example of this."

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I actually disagree with this assessment. I think Urban Fantasy IS restricted by genre limitations just as those others are. In Urban Fantasy, as defined by most sites I double-checked through Google, the main components of it are:
It is contemporary
It's urban
It contains supernatural elements

Now it can also be an alternate reality, which is what I think Kim Harrison's stories are. But it's still taking place in the present in a city-like setting.

Straka said:

I'm just thinking about how to classify it for the agent quires. I was calling it dark-urban fantasy, but I'm starting to think maybe just dark fantasy.

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Is there anything out that is similar to it? That might help narrow down the classification. Otherwise, dark fantasy, or medieval fantasy might work, but since you threw in the "another world" hiccough, then it moves it more to speculative or sci-fi with a fantasy twist. Not sure how sci-fi is sub-genred.

CaroGirl said:

Ah, well, you caught me. I don't really read Sci-fi at all. Does it show? *blinks and looks around* What the heck am I doing in this forum anyway?

I just spotted 1984, which is a novel I adore, and thought I'd throw in my .02, which is, apparently, not worth the copper it's stamped on.

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I don't intend to suggest your opinion is worthless. Rather, I genuinely don't understand how your position differs from mine. I suspect it doesn't.

yttar said:

For some people, the city is a very important aspect of urban fantasy. But since I'm from a small city, and aside from living abroad, the largest city I've lived in has a population of 45-50,000, I use a setting that's more familiar to me, while still considering my writing to be urban fantasy.

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American Gods is a prime example of this. Much of it takes place in Minnesota, but - to me, anyway - the book is urban fantasy.

Since Straka introduced math to the discussion, I'll suggest biology. Maybe we should use a classification system like theirs:

Kingdom - Fantasy
Phyllum - Contemporary
Class - Urban
Order - ?
Family - ?
Genus - ?
Species - Werewolf

Okay, that didn't work out quite as well as I'd wanted it to. But hopefully you get the idea...

Shadow_Ferret said:

I actually disagree with this assessment. I think Urban Fantasy IS restricted by genre limitations just as those others are. In Urban Fantasy, as defined by most sites I double-checked through Google, the main components of it are:
It is contemporary
It's urban
It contains supernatural elements

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If Urban Fantasy in the strict sense has these limitations, perhaps one could just specify..."I'm writing what might be called -- though not strictly -- Urban Fantasy" ...cuz now you got me worried. I've told half a dozen people I'm writing Urban Fantasy and now it seems they are likely to be slightly misled. Though perhaps not by much...is 1947 contemporary? Maybe not. Is a small town in Kansas Urban? Maybe not. Are things falling from an alternative world supernatural? Maybe not.

So I'm sort of writing what might sort of be a sort of Urban Fantasy. Sort of...

Genres are a starting point. They compartmentalize the story so that its easier for the agent and the publisher to understand and know how to market.

However, it's hell on us writers because most of us don't write our stories within the confines of the narrow definition some of the genres have.

In your case you might call it a historical urban fantasy or something. Or, depending on what is actually falling out of this alternate world, it could just be a dark fantasy set in 1940s Kansas.

Yeah, if it's severed baby heads, I'd say that qualifies as dark fantasy. May even be even horror, depending on who's sending the heads through.

SPMiller said:

Yeah, if it's severed baby heads, I'd say that qualifies as dark fantasy. May even be even horror, depending on who's sending the heads through.

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I hadn't thought of severed baby's heads. Sounds more like a public health problem. But then a lot of horror and dark fantasy sounds like
that to me.

But things falling into a town apparently does resonate a bit -- even in Kansas in 1947.

Doodlebug said:

American Gods is a prime example of this. Much of it takes place in Minnesota, but - to me, anyway - the book is urban fantasy.

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You make Minnesota sound all rural, like we don't have any big cities. That aside, I am from Minnesota, so that's where most of my novels take place.

Doodlebug said:

Since Straka introduced math to the discussion, I'll suggest biology. Maybe we should use a classification system like theirs:

Kingdom - Fantasy
Phyllum - Contemporary
Class - Urban
Order - ?
Family - ?
Genus - ?
Species - Werewolf

Okay, that didn't work out quite as well as I'd wanted it to. But hopefully you get the idea...

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Try something like:

Kingdom - SF (Speculative Fiction)
Phylum - Fantasy
Class - Urban
Order - Contemporary, Historical, Futuristic (?)
Family - Romance, Mystery, etc.
Genus - demons, fey, shapeshifters, magic users (witches, psychics), angels, vampires
Species - author's specific interpretation on supernatural creature

(Sorry, I was a biology major.)

Yttar

yttar said:

You make Minnesota sound all rural, like we don't have any big cities. That aside, I am from Minnesota, so that's where most of my novels take place.

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Oops! My bad. I should have said, "a small town in northern Minnesota". My apologies! Somehow, I managed to forget those twin cities...

yttar said:

Try something like:

Kingdom - SF (Speculative Fiction)
Phylum - Fantasy
Class - Urban
Order - Contemporary, Historical, Futuristic (?)
Family - Romance, Mystery, etc.
Genus - demons, fey, shapeshifters, magic users (witches, psychics), angels, vampires
Species - author's specific interpretation on supernatural creature

(Sorry, I was a biology major.)

Yttar

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Yeah! I knew it could work. It just took a pro to get it right.