I'd like some advice/feedback, please

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Shwebb

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I've got a problem regarding the church I've been attending for a little over a year, and I was wondering if I could get a reality check, perhaps. I wasn't raised in a conventional church, and I'm not certain at all of how things like my problem would generally be handled. It took a lot of well, courage for me to start attending church again--I did it mostly because of my kids and there's that obedience thing, you know? ;) It was good that I did spend a bit of time not going to church; I needed to shake off some of the crap that was told to me "in the name of God" sort of thing. Going to church is still rather painful for me at times, but I'm okay with it, most of the time. It's an issue that I've been working through.

But now, something has happened, and I don't know quite what to do.

Some of you might have noticed that I posted a thread in here earlier about vacation Bible school. My best friend asked me if I'd be a co-director with her, and I agreed. We've been friends for almost 20 years, and we've always been like family--indeed, when I first met her, I was married to her brother! The marriage didn't work out; I was very young and naive and he was a manipulative wreck of a person. Thankfully, I was able to get out of it within a few years, and there's quite a story within that short time. But short story is that I got custody of his family in the divorce. Or at least, that's how we've joked about it.

Anyway, I was aware that my best friend and I might clash, but I figured that we've been friends long enough that we could weather this. And that if we kept our hearts and minds and such in the right place and kept the right attitude, we'd be okay.

Well, that didn't happen. All along, my friend has shot down pretty much every idea I came up with. When I asked her about it, she retorted, "Well, you don't like any idea I come up with, either!" Which wasn't true, at all. So I apologized for giving her that impression. And reminded her that we were doing everything that she was wanting to do.

Last week, our village had a parade scheduled. I thought it would be great if the church would put a pickup truck in it--the kids from the church could ride in the back or ride their bikes and such, and we could advertise the VBS. Everyone in the church thought it was a good idea. But of course, no one offered his/her truck. One of my neighbors let us borrow his, though.

I also made flyers out of colored paper and attached them to pencils with the glue gun so that they looked like pennant flags--we were to hand them out during the parade. And we had candy to throw to the kids, as well.

On the day of the parade, I went to get the truck. The temp was in the 90s, and by the time I got the truck, put gas in it (because it was on empty) and ran it through the car wash, the heat got to me to the point I was getting stomach cramps. It was 30 minutes until the parade, but I spent most of that time on the toilet or lying down, trying to get my body to cooperate.

Meanwhile, another woman from the church had done a sign we were supposed to carry in front of the truck. We didn't have enough people to carry it--it ended up being just me and my friend--so we taped it to the back of the truck. The other friend went to pick up my best friend and my two-year-old, and I was going to go down to the parade line up directly.

My best friend refused to ride with the other woman, and insisted that I pick her up and she was screaming at me that we were really late and that we weren't going to make the parade. Given that I've done the parade thing before when I was on the emergency squad, I knew it was a matter of us showing up and them putting us in line. But anyway, on her orders, I went to pick her up and without a car seat for any of my kids. I was rather upset that she was willing to put my kids in danger, really. And that it was illegal. But it was a short drive. And I wasn't going to argue at that point.

We got there in time to get lined up for the parade. My best friend's attitude ended up scaring off the other friend, I think. She was going to participate in the parade, but she ended up leaving. I drove the truck at my friend's order. We had about ten minutes before we had to go up in line, and my friend was helping the three kids besides my own to decorate their bikes. And while she's doing that she's reminding me that I let them down because I should have been there earlier. That I broke a promise by being late.

When the parade started, she had my two-year-old ride her trike. My two older kids rode in front of the truck with two teenagers, and there was a 5 year old that rode in the truck bed. My friend was also handing out the pennants, and she got left behind quickly. I can tell you that I wanted nothing more than to stop and let the other folks behind me go ahead, but my kids were ahead of me, and I didn't think it would be a good idea to lose sight of them or the teenagers. However, I stalled the line as much as I could. And wished that I'd made my friend drive.

When the parade was over, I gave the kids with me something to drink. The babysitter picked up the kid in the truck bed, the teenagers said they were going to ride back to the school. I turned the truck around as fast as I could and went looking for my friend and my youngest, and they were walking to my house.

My friend is so furious that I am now her ex-friend. She doesn't care to understand anything that happened or her own place in it. She has "fired" me as co-director. And the youth director is letting her. Perhaps because I'm just wanting everything to go well and I'm not willing to get into a junior-high sort of argument about it.

My friend was originally wanting to apologize to the church for whatever it is she has in her head we did wrong. I'm flummoxed, really.

But the upshot of it is that she's not speaking to me. I told the pastor and the youth director that I committed myself to VBS, and I'm going to do whatever I can to make it run smoothly, regardless of my place in it. But I don't think my friend is even letting me volunteer. In her email, she says she has "a reputation to protect." Niice.

And I'm concerned about what will happen if I show up in church and she treats me the same way. And how will she treat my kids?

I'm heartbroken on so many levels. And what bothers me most is that my friend is allowed to shove me out and continue to direct VBS in what appears to be such a bad attitude. I don't want anything but for that attitude to change. I don't even care at this point if she doesn't want to be my friend anymore. I'll grieve later.

But how can God bless this when she's in such a bad place?

And do I dare say anything to the pastor about it?

And yeah, I'm a bit sad that they are letting her shove me around.

So. Any advice on what to do?
 

girlyswot

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Yes, absolutely you should talk to your pastor about this. It's clear that there's been a breakdown in the relationship between you and your friend and that the two of you aren't able to reconcile without some external help. I'd try to explain the situation to the pastor without assigning blame (as far as you are able) just explaining how you have been made to feel and what your goals would be (a good VBS, restoration of the friendship etc.) Explain that you want to be part of the church and its ministry but that as things stand, that is very difficult for you.
 

III

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Ah, Sweet Shelly. You want the bad news first or the good news first? The bad news is, this stuff happens all the time in church especially in leadership. I've been through this particular cycle many times and it's always deeply painful, but I've learned a few things from it (which is the good news):

1) Love is the master key to every lock. No matter how impossible the situation, Love is the master key. You keep loving and you'll come out the other end of the situation even better than you went in.

2) The situation that's causing the stress, whether it's VBS, the music in the church, outreach vision, etc. that seems so big and so important to the Kingdom is, in the grand scheme, negligible and unimportant. That's a hard truth to grab hold of because we pour ourselves into these ministries. I firmly believe that, while that's a good thing, it's not as important as we make it. God can reach someone's heart regardless of our ministries. What He's really interested in is that we love each other - that's the whole plan for evangelism and for fellowship - love each other deeply.

3) The devil plays no small role in this and he doesn't even try to be original. Any time you try to build a ministry you'll see his same attempts to tear it apart by turning people against each other, particularly by telling each one that their idea is right and playing off physical and emotional stress. 1 Peter emphasizes the importance of submission for just this reason. If you're looking for an encouraging read, I'd suggest 1 Peter.

4) The suffering that you're experiencing helps you to mature and become Christlike and have a connection to Christ that you can't attain in any other way. The greatest leaps I've made in maturity have been because of similar situations to the one you're going through. Entrust yourself to God. Be honest with your friend and with the church leadership, but make sure you're talking out of love and not just frustration. And then submit to the decision of leadership, even if you don't agree. THEN God will REALLY work in your life and in the situation beyond anything you'd be able to accomplish on your own.

So yeah, it hurts terribly while you're going through it, especially because I know you've got a huge heart and you're a giving person, but don't feel defeated. This is actually an opportunity to grow and to model maturity to your friend and the rest of the church and your children (which I daresay will have more of an impact than an entire VBS program).

And of course you have your AW family praying for you as well.
 

Shwebb

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Thanks so very much for the hugs and the good advice. For letting me know that it's okay to call the pastor about it. And Jay--you, in part, listed what my own reality checklist has been through this. I'm trying to keep foremost in my mind that if I continue to submit to God and His will, I'll be in the right place. That isn't to say that I don't feel the hurt and embarrassment. Hurt because my friend has just turned against me, for whatever reason. (And yes, I think there are other influences at work, here. And that she's more susceptible since she is easily upset emotionally because of the whole thyroid thing.)

But I wouldn't have volunteered for this if I didn't have a burden for it. Or develop one, I guess. I was one of those ragamuffin kids who roamed the neighborhood at one point and ended up going to church via a bus, in the beginning. I can't say that the church was able to meet my needs at any point as a kid--but then, I was a very, very needy kid. A troubled kid. Not a troublemaker, but wow. I was a mess from the neglect and the trauma of having my father desert us and then my mom (who wasn't that maternal to begin with) abandon us in search of her own life which involved using the magazine "Cosmopolitan" as her bible. And this was in the seventies--the free-wheeling lifestyle was her desire, and you know? Kids don't fit well into that.
And I don't regret now what I went through, either. I use it to understand where other people are in their own suffering. So my own past suffering has become useful to me. I can't say how thankful I am that I'm able to reach someone merely because I know whereof he/she speaks. I know that pain well. And in some ways am thankful that I do.

I digress, though. I know that I have to maintain a prayerful, humble attitude, here. I want God to use me as His instrument, and that usually means I have to get out of the way! ;)

At the same time, I cannot help but say something when I see a train about to wreck. And right now, I feel like this one is. I'm so sad and embarrassed because there should be no reason for contention. And yet I'm dragged into it in such a public way. It's humiliating, actually.

But I don't even care so much about that! Again, it's the kids. Even if I have to stay away from the church in order for us to have a great VBS, I will. If I were causing problems or something. Whatever it takes for me to be part of the solution, that's what I want. I don't even care if I'm someone's assistant's assistant's assistant. I don't care about power. I care about God blessing VBS. If it's just one kid. If it's just showing one kid love and acceptance for the only week out of his life that he will feel it. Because every kid is that important. No kid should ever feel invisible. (And I know.)

So I did call the pastor a few minutes ago. He listened quietly while I told him my concerns. And he said the same thing you did, Jay. That this stuff often happens. People have problems with each other.

He told me he'd like to see a resolution to it and that our friendship be restored, at best. However, I don't know that that will happen. Right now, I'd say that she's a bit far gone, at the moment. She's convinced that I'm a problem that needs to be removed, actually. To the point that she used White-Out to rid the sign up sheet of my name.

Turns out he hasn't had a chance to speak to the youth minister about this, who is his son. Which comforts me a bit because I thought that he did know about what I'd told his dad, so I didn't bother to tell him much of anything. So he has only my friend's account of what happened. The pastor told me that he will speak to his son tomorrow and call me to let me know what will be decided.

I reiterated to the pastor that I'm not concerned about myself at this point. I'm concerned about my kids and how my friend's attitude will affect them. I'm concerned about VBS. And if my friend can change her behavior and attitude--even if I'm not part of VBS, I'm fine with that.

I just want things to be where God is free to move and bless VBS.

I told him also that I don't want him to think that I think my own attitude is perfect, here. Or that I'm trying to paint my friend as a villain and me as the angel. Because I know I made mistakes. And I shall continue to--I know myself well enough.

I just want things to be where they are supposed to be. I want my friend back, too. Or at least where she can be civil to me. Honestly, what she has done does hurt a great deal. Not just the public humiliation she's putting me through. But that she would turn on me so roundly. There are times I want to be very angry. There are times I am, actually. Not so much that I can't get beyond my emotions, though, and remember what's most important.

I'll let you guys know what happens. And until then, I'll try to maintain a prayerful, humble attitude.

And if anyone else reading this wouldn't mind saying a brief prayer for God to bless our VBS program, I'd appreciate it greatly.

And thanks! Your thoughtful responses mean so very much to me.
 

regdog

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My friend works in a church as a musician and has seen the backbiting and power struggles first hand. Sad to say it happens more often than you would think. According to my friend churchs are one of the most common places for that to happen.

I agree with talking to your pastor and explaining the entire situation along with letting the pastor know you are not saying this to start a she said/she said contest with your former friend.

If you enjoy being a memeber of the church the absolutely continue going. Perhaps you can ask your former friend out to lunch to try and smooth things over, but please don't surprised if she isn't interested. By everything you wrote I get the impression she is threatened by you and feeling insecure about her role in the church.

Good luck and keep your chin up heres another hug:Hug2:
 
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Unique

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oh, so that's why you didn't call me back.

Sorry it's been going like that. Hope it gets better.
 

Jenny

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Great advice. I can't add anything useful, only a quick prayer and reassurance: you're a good person.
 

III

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Thanks for the update, Shelly. Keep us posted and we'll keep praying for you, your friend, and the VBS program. If I was a betting man I'd bet that God is shaping and preparing you for a bigger leadership role in the future. But I know it hurts right now, and we're here with you. :Hug2:
 

heyjude

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Schwebb, you've gotten great advice here. It's so sad that this is happening, but it does happen. (I'm in the midst of VBS myself and I've ducked a blow or two!--something about small children, hot days, and arts and crafts can bring it out in some people, huh?)

Anyway, my thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope your friend gets a nudge from God and comes to her senses!
 

Shwebb

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Well, here's an update:

My pastor called me this morning and told me that he appreciates my attitude and willingness to help. And they are going to leave things as they are, with my now-very-much-ex-friend directing by herself. No one is going to speak to her about her attitude or her hostility toward me, they're just going to hunker down and pray that God's will prevail, regardless.

Which is mostly fine with me. I spoke to the pastor's wife last night, and she's right--it's rather presumptuous of me to think that God would let anyone stand in the way of what He wants, I guess.

I of course volunteered to do whatever I can to help. The pastor's wife has graciously invited me to assist her with the decorating, so I've been doing that.

However, last night when I was at the church, I was confiding things to the pastor's wife about my relationship with my now ex-friend. We were alone in the basement, and as far as I knew, we were having a private conversation.

What I was telling her was that since my friend has been out of my life, that I'm now finding just how much control over me I was letting her have. She was very critical of me. In the past, I always felt like she was slumming it by having a friend like me. And I think that in some way, I've been right about it--that she has felt that way about me; that being my friend made her feel better about her own self.

The pastor's wife stated to me that they've known my friend as long as I have, and that she has a reputation in the church as being a bit of a trouble-maker. She reminded me that my friend isn't speaking to her own mom or to her own daughter. (And my friend has been very critical of how I spend my time, including having friends I've made online; she's also been critical of how I raise my kids.)

I don't feel that I was in any way engaging in gossip--I felt that the pastor's wife was allowing me a chance to vent. And she was giving me a reality check--she wasn't putting my friend down so much as telling me, "Look. You've known her a long time, so have we. As much as we might care about her, she has problems."

Well, what we didn't know at the time was that first, our voices carried up the stairs. Nor did we know that my friend came into the church and ended up listening for (her quote) "a loooooong time."

She sent me an email accusing me of gossiping and spreading lies and making things up. She told me that as far as my kids are concerned, I can tell them I have been "guilty of gossiping and that I don't know what a true friend is." And that she's sure I'll come up with something to tell the kids, because I'm "good at making stuff up." And of course she told me not to contact her any more.

Since this incident involved the pastor's wife, I copy/pasted her email and my reply to it. Which I stated that I didn't know if my friend would read it; she has a habit of deleting emails without reading them if after she gives a parting shot and tells people not to contact her any more.

However, this is what I said in my reply to my friend:

Oh, really. Listening in on a PRIVATE conversation between two people isn't eavesdropping, either, eh? Apparently anything someone says about anyone else is gossip? Under that definition, I guess my therapy sessions are really just gossip.

Regardless of whether you want to refuse to read my emails or not, you will need to deal with the fact that I'm not going away. I live in this town, too. I go to that church, too. I have the right to be concerned about my kids. I have the right to CONFIDE in someone besides you. And without someone listening in on the conversation. That's incredibly intrusive.

You know what? If you haven't learned anything about me by now, you should know that I DON'T PLAY GAMES. Nor will I start. I am not doing it.

I went to the church to help out in any way I can. I'm still committed to doing the best I can in whatever way possible.

You will need to decide how you are going to handle yourself with me and my kids. I will not have my kids hurt by you because of something you THINK I have done.

Please consider why it seems you have to be at odds with most everyone who has ever gotten close to you.

I told the pastor's wife that I'm sorry that my confidence in her resulted in possible problems for her. And if I'd known, I'd have surely not said anything. I thought it was a private conversation, not gossip.

I also told her that perhaps it would be best if I just stayed away until after VBS. That I'd help with whatever she needed with her own projects and I still want to do the shirts for the VBS volunteers, but I don't want to, by my presence, incite my friend to anger and have her lose focus on VBS or on God, I suppose.

This whole thing breaks my heart. I stated that I might change my mind about attendance, but I don't know what else to do right now. And that until I know what else to do, I don't know what else to do.

Well, I feel like finding a large enough rock and hiding under it, but that's not going to solve anything, either. The pastor's wife has stated to me that she doesn't want us to quit the church over this--I don't intend to, at this point. But I surely don't feel like going back there knowing that someone in the congregation hates me with a passion.
 

Gravity

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Christians really are the damnedest people, aren't they? (and I say this as one) Barna did a poll a while back, and was dumbstruck at how many of us (hundreds of thousands of us in the US) have simply abandoned church altogether; my wife and I pulled the ejection handle over two years ago, after having been involved in various fellowships for over thirty years. It's sad, and I never would have seen this coming, but some point you simply say the hell with it, and trust in God's grace.
 

sassandgroove

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Shelly- I've had 'friends' like that and I've been through a lot of church messes, including church splits. I am so sorry this is happening to you, but I am proud of you for being mature and loving in the face of childishness and anger. Jay's post is right. I am glad you have an ally in the pastor and his wife. I don't know what else to offer. You are doing what I would suggest already, remaining calm, not placing blame, not playing games and not letting yourself be manipulated. The problem is, sometimes no matter what you do, some people won't be receptive. There are some people that I don't have in my life anymore because of that. But I've also kept relationships with people who were receptive - and built new better ones with new people in my life. I hope this makes sense. I am not sure how to explain, but I/We are here for you. HUG!

This to shall pass. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Time heals all wounds. And other cliches. :)
 

Shwebb

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The funny thing is that I've just been going back to church within the last year. I did need that big break so that I could get my head screwed on well enough without other folks messing with it. My head, I mean.

I don't want to give up on the idea of going to church. I feel that it's something we're supposed to do, ideally. And totally getting why people give up on it, too. Because it's hard. And heartbreaking for some folks. Including me.

I hope I don't have to change churches over this, though! My kids love it there, and I was, after more than a year, starting to feel a wee bit more comfortable.
 

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I'm glad to hear that your pastor was sympathetic, and also that you were able to talk about this situation with your pastor's wife. It's a shame that resulted in more trouble, but at least in that instance it's not a simple case of her word against yours. Your pastor's wife was part of that conversation too, and she knows what was said and how it was meant. I really hope that you can find a way to continue at the church, especially since your kids like and you seem to be building a good understanding with the pastor and his wife. If they know the sort of person your friend is, that should help.
 
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