Ghost writers

Deccydiva · Jul 23, 2008

This may appear to be a naive or just plain stupid question but I will ask it anyway...
Who really writes the books put out by "celebrities?" I constantly see brainless bimbo "models" and the like gushing on a TV chat show about "their" book and of course being in the public eye through pushy PR behind them, these books manage to sell. There was one dumb footballer's wife who finally admitted that she didn't actually write it herself (no surprise there!).
So - who really writes these books? Is there an opening for ghost writers or, like ghosts, are they considered not to exist?

scope · Jul 23, 2008

Since I've ghostwritten a couple of books I can assure you they do exist. Ghost writers are simply writers like those who post on AW. In the majority of cases ghostwriters are nameless within the work. Sometimes, you can negotiate to have a tag line within the book (e.g., project director). And if you really have some clout and/or marketing ability which the publisher can use, you just may be able to work out a deal whereby you actual name appears on the cover beneath the suppossed author (e.g., "edited by").

In my experience ghostwriters are approached by publishers or agents for a job. I don't think there's any way one can apply for ghostwriting positions.

Hillary · Jul 23, 2008

I'd love to sign up to be a ghost writer. (I don't want to do it, I just want to sign up.)

But scope is right, it doesn't work like that. Usually, with stuff like ghost writing (and even novelizations) an agent or publisher will know how an author writes (speed, style, humor, etc.) and then recommend them for/ask them to do a project. Sometimes, though, an author won't WANT to be mentioned as a ghost writer, or the person who novelized something (especially the novelization-group.) I mean... If I ghost wrote Paris Hilton's biography, I'd sooner shave my head than let ANYONE know. And if I spent three weeks novelizing some trashy movie, yeah, I'd want that to be a secret as well.

It's easy money in some cases (novelization) but I can't imagine it's easy to work with some of these moronic celebrity types. Don't know who all these ghost writers are, but I tip my hat to the ones who tolerated working with the heiresses who wanted to "write books."

Jayswords · Jul 23, 2008

Not all Ghost Writers are required to write "celebrity" biographies (or memoirs or exposés). I have only just finished working on such a project— for a public figure, a prominent figure, but not anybody you might have heard of. Yet. If you're prepared to transcribe hundreds of thousands of words, edit it, humor the subject, edit it some more, write an introduction and so on and so forth, and then receive a pittance for doing it, with no guarantee of much else beyond personal satisfaction, I'd recommend it.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

This

jennifer75 said:
Are ghost writers allowed to acknowledge who they are writing for? Or is that a no-no? Any published memoirs written by "ghost-writers" as in, has a ghost writer ever written their own memoir??? What are the legalities of such a profession?

didn't get answered in its original thread so I moved it here.....anybody?

scope · Jul 23, 2008

In my experiences I was not allowed to publicly acknowledge who I was writing for. I assume this is universal, but I don't know for certain. However, since I worked out a contractual arrangement whereby I received credit in the books as Project Director in one case, and Managing Editor in an other, I am able to use the works in my credentials.

Don't know of any ghost writer who has ever written a memoir.

As far as legalities, I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to, but I think these things are always best left for appropriate attorneys.

Ghost writing for money is a very individual thing. I have found it to be extremely rewarding, while Jay had the opposite experience. I think many factors enter the equation.

jennifer75 · Jul 23, 2008

Is there an online ghostwriters network???

Old Hack · Jul 24, 2008

Jennie Erdhal (not sure of that spelling) wrote a book called "Ghost" about her ghostwriting experiences.

I've ghostwritten a few, and am not allowed to tell anything about them. In each case I already knew the "author" and was asked to take over the writing when it became clear, for various reasons, that they would not be able to finish the book.

Recently I was asked to ghost a celebrity autobiography before the celebrity concerned got a contract to write it. I refused as I didn't think he'd get a contract, and I was right--he didn't.

Claudia Gray · Jul 24, 2008

I've done some ghostwriting -- not for celebrities, but under other author names (the creation of the publisher, who wanted to create the illusion that a series was being done by one person rather than several). ITA with what's been said above. You don't go looking for ghostwriting work; the agent and/or publisher comes looking for you.

I am spending more of my time on my own work these days, because doing ghostwriting soaks up precious writing hours you can't devote to your original stuff. That said, it paid well and was (in my case) fairly painless. If an offer came along at a point where I was between original projects, I'd definitely do it again.

IceCreamEmpress · Jul 24, 2008

scope said:
In my experiences I was not allowed to publicly acknowledge who I was writing for. I assume this is universal

No, some ghostwriters negotiate that. But your solution of getting another official credit is a good one: I've also seen "editor" as the ghostwriter's credit.

Don't know of any ghost writer who has ever written a memoir.

William Novak has written a bazillion of them, from Nancy Reagan to Oliver North.

Lauren Slater wrote Rosie O'Donnell's book Find Me.

jennifer75 · Jul 24, 2008

IceCreamEmpress said:
No, some ghostwriters negotiate that. But your solution of getting another official credit is a good one: I've also seen "editor" as the ghostwriter's credit.

William Novak has written a bazillion of them, from Nancy Reagan to Oliver North.

Lauren Slater wrote Rosie O'Donnell's book Find Me.

What I meant was or has there been a memoir written by the memoir-er. Get it? So has a ghostwriter written a memoir about their life as a ghostwriter? That would be interesting, no?

IceCreamEmpress · Jul 24, 2008

jennifer75 said:
What I meant was or has there been a memoir written by the memoir-er. Get it? So has a ghostwriter written a memoir about their life as a ghostwriter? That would be interesting, no?

Oh, sorry, I'm a bit thick today.

Ghosting: A Double Life by Jennie Erdal is the only one I know of.

This article by Barbara Feinman Todd is quite good.

jennifer75 · Jul 24, 2008

Very interesting articles! Thanks!

So I wonder, can you contact an agent and say "hey, I want to ghostwrite, here is my work, line something up".... up above/down below (which ever applies) it is mentioned that you don't find them, they find you....but how if they don't know you exist? Or that you even want to do it.....huuuuuuh?

Old Hack · Jul 24, 2008

Nope, agents don't take applications for the job: they just happen to know of someone who does the work, who they think could fit a particular job.

IceCreamEmpress · Jul 24, 2008

jennifer75 said:
Very interesting articles! Thanks!

So I wonder, can you contact an agent and say "hey, I want to ghostwrite, here is my work, line something up".... up above/down below (which ever applies) it is mentioned that you don't find them, they find you....but how if they don't know you exist? Or that you even want to do it.....huuuuuuh?

Basically, you have to be already published and let your agent know you're interested. Or you have to have been a published journalist doing interviews and profiles, and have one of your interview subjects come to you and say "Would you work with me on a book?" (I think that's how William Novak got into it.)

There's also the option of sending writing samples to book packagers who do cheapo quickie celebrity bios. Again, though, I think even they are looking for folks with experience either in books or journalism.

jennifer75 · Jul 24, 2008

Very interesting. The reason I ask is because sometimes it seems so hard to develop your own plots and such, that being told what to write about seems like a greater challenge in a wierd psychotic way.

It's an assignment. You've given the subject, and you have to write the story. Creating your own subject can be tuff sometimes......am I crazy cause I swear all that made sense to me

scope · Jul 25, 2008

Don't be fooled.

Ghostwriting often involves absorbing and understanding the thought process of the "author," especially when dealing with a serious subject and/or person. You have to capture the that person's voice and express yourself on paper as a reader would expect of the "author" involved. You have write as YOU do, but express yourself in a manner compliant with the person for who you are writing. It can be extremely difficult -- at the least, very taxing. It's one of the reasons why really good ghostwriters make very good money.

ATP · Jul 25, 2008

I get the sense that besides the quickie celebrity bios, ghosting requires a certain amount of maturity--some might even call it age coupled with experience--that I assume, many if not most professional ghostwriters possess.

Deccydiva · Jul 25, 2008

Well I have age on my side and plenty of varied life experience but none of the other attributes and no publisher apart from a small Irish one will have heard of me... not an option, it seems. :Shrug:

scope · Jul 25, 2008

I doubt it has anything to do with age, but I do think it requires a special degree of understanding of exactly what's required, and being able to subjugate yourself to a certain degree (this may have something to do with experience, although I really don't know).

shannonmac · Jul 25, 2008

Now do these ghost writers meet with their "authors" or is it just, here write this book and we're putting her name on it, she wants it to be about clowns?

and if someone is writing a memoir with someone...
does that count as ghost writing??

scope · Jul 25, 2008

shannon,

The ghost writing I've done has been of a serious nature (serious subjects), none of which has been for celebs and such, but some of which has been for prominent individuals. In cases such as the latter, nothing was ever "mailed-in." I met and spent time with the "authors" on a regular basis.

In one case, for a series of 24 books, 144 pages each, I met with the "author" for an average of 3-5 few days each month (in NY or CA)--for over 2 years. He reviewed what I wrote for authenticity while I discussed with him a slew matters I had to subsequently deal with. In addition, we exchanged emails and phone calls as needed.
It was an enormous task, but I absolutely loved it -- but I'm sure much of that was due to the fact that the "author" is an incredible person.

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