One

one

a distant war's echo
invading our lives
the night we parted
the sky was burning

invading our lives
the night we parted
the sky was burning
a distant war's echo

war's echo invading
our lives the night
we parted the sky
was burning a distant

our lives the night
we parted the sky
was burning a distant
war's echo invading

we parted the sky
was burning a distant
war's echo invading
our lives the night

the night we parted
the sky was burning
A distant war's echo
invading our lives

was burning a distant
war's echo invading
our lives the night
we parted the sky

the sky was burning
a distant war's echo
invading our lives
the night we parted

**********************************************

Why is this in the discussion area and not critique--and BTW what the hell is it?!

I was thinking on serial music constructs and wondered if something similar could be done with language. I don't expect many (I know at least one of you may have studied serial composition techniques) and this is the result of my first go at it. I think there may be something here--but thought I'd run it past our poets here. I broke the phrases into their individual units and then constructed a matrix and moved things around. While you can likely guess the original 4 lines--it appears interesting to look at the different permutations that result from this.

Now, you may be thinking I've lost my mind--while they haven't come to take me away, I submit that it is a definite possibility.

The other thought was to add another 4 line stanza and play the permutations against it. I'm not sure. If anybody has any thoughts on this idea, I'd love to not only have them here, but try to get a discussion cooking.

two

two

The night our lives
invading war's echo
a distant was burning
the sky we parted

voices would carry
solemnly chanting
the singing continued
beyond the range

the sky was burning
a distant war's echo
invading our lives
the night we parted

the range beyond
continued the singing
chanting solemnly
would carry voices

our lives the night
we parted the sky
chanting solemnly
would carry voices

was burning a distant
war's echo invading
the range beyond
would carry voices

Well, it isn't like a villanelle but it does repeat. Instead this takes a set of metric feet and then serializes its distribution--creating phrase inversions and retrograde format. Realizing that (like Phillip Glass) the constant repetition of one was a bit much, in two I added a second matrix of (of a serialized quatrain) and played with mixing and swapping back and forth. At this point the idea is, by my own admission fairly half-assed, but I wondered if I was swimming deeper into unfriendly waters or if I'd actually hit upon a useful tool if nothing else.

I'll take a few minutes in my next post to fully explain what I've done.

An explanation of a technique under development

Okay --- where did one and two come from?

The original two stanzas were:

one

The night we parted
the sky was burning
a distant war's
echo invading

two

the singing continued
beyond the range
voices would carry
solemnly chanting

again, I had to start somewhere so these simple under worked images seemed good for a first bash at it.

I then broke them down into their individual rhythmic units (iamb, anapest, trochee, dactyl or spondee) and then built a matrix from them which I can't produce here. I guess I need to put a link up somewhere.


I then proceeded to pick arrangements that would become individual stanzas. Once I added two to the mix I went back and forth and then blended them at the end. They can be read in rows, columns, forward or backward.

Again, this might simply be a crazy idea and I'm actually looking for interest or discussion---If I don't get any--so be it, but don't be intimidated by it--heck it's just a reapplication of something to a different genre and it isn't a perfect fit. There are fewer constants in music than there are in language.

Rather than writing a new set and serializing it, what other methods might be useful in coming up with the basic material for such a project?

What if instead of letting it fall as it may, we specifically chose the type of meters contained?

What if we limited it instead to a stanza of four lines we limited it to 12 metric
feet?

Should the meters be mixed or consistent?

Just trying out some ideas and wanted to see if someone else wanted to bite on it.

If not--or even if you think I'm totally nuts concerning the whole thing--I'd like to hear from you.

As always thank you for your time.

Dirk

P.H.Delarran said:

so, if this were music,would it be like taking the same notes and switching their order? but is the pattern random or regular?
the difference of course is that in music you would be putting different sounds within a fixed rhythmic pattern, whereas here, changing the order of the words also changes the meter.
am I getting the right idea?

Click to expand...

I've constructed a Music Row Matrix for you to look at here.

The rhythm can also be serialized in a similar manner -- this is a matrix for a tone row (a succession of pitches--each of the 12 even tempered notes of traditional music used exactly 1 time per row) As you build the matrix for music you are naturally building new pitches which give a different sound.

Music also has the ability to state several pitches at the same time. and even simultaneous statement of different rows. Language creates some difficulties in this respect. I've considered using a thesaurus to build a similar phrase or similar words to substitute at different times.

The progression of the notes are set by the matrix. Once you begin to state a row--you (by design) need to complete it in some way without going back over it.

It also has advantages in timbre in that you can span a row over several different voices.

I hope this is making some sense.

I'll try to answer questions and trying to adapt the method to language is interesting and not without its problems.


Of the two I've done, I find one to be more similar to minimalism as practiced by Glass and others --two is also similar to that, but moving more in the direction I would like this to go.

I believe I'm going to experiment with the thesaurus using the same phrase, but substituting from the thesaurus in building the matrix and see what that brings out.

When looking at the matrix, remember you can read it forwards, backwards, upwards and down.

Okay, so, I'm mostly having a conversation with myself. Today I discovered something about one and two: they have an interesting effect when read aloud. I'm not set up tonight, but I plan to record both of them and post a link to them to see if that piques anybody's interest.

I haven't seen the guys in the white coats yet--but I expect them anytime now.

Bad day today--I'll try to get it going tomorrow.

Okay. I've added a recording of one and two now titled, respectively, invasion and voices.

They are currently available on my soundclick page.

See what you think.

Did anybody give the recordings a listen?

Just interested in feedback and thoughts.

Look in the games section to participate in my latest go at this concept.

Thanks for noticing. I really do appreciate your thoughts on this. I wish a few more would take note and speak up.