Common Problem?

estateconnection · Jul 5, 2008

I have this novel in my head. I see the whole thing in technicolor--beginning to end--like a movie, even down to the color of the curtains. Problem? I can't get it down on paper. I've tried taking each scene and writing what I see, but what I see is fluid and exciting; what I write is awkward and clunky. I've moved on to other projects but this movie keeps playing. Has anyone experienced this?

Chris Grey · Jul 5, 2008

When Michelangelo created David, he started with an awkward and clunky block of marble. Then he cut and polished away all the parts that weren't David.

Write your awkward and clunky story. Then cut and polish it. Find a book or ten you find fluid and exciting and examine what makes them not awkward and clunky if you need ideas.

James D. Macdonald · Jul 5, 2008

...what I see is fluid and exciting; what I write is awkward and clunky.

Absolutely dead common.

The solution? Write the book. Even if every page, every line, every word, is total crap.

Don't stop until you reach "The End."

Do you need permission to write badly? Here you go.

alleycat · Jul 5, 2008

Oh, yes indeed. When I first started writing as an adult, I had this idea for a novel in mind. I could see the whole thing in my mind; the characters, location, action, the whole thing. That was back when I thought the main thing about writing was having a great idea. So, I wrote the thing. It didn't turn out quite like I expected. As I've mentioned before, the thing turned out so wooden someone could drive a nail in it. That's when I decided to back up a step or two and learn more about the craft of writing. I also learned pretty quickly that ideas by themselves don't mean very much; it's what you do with the idea that counts.

For you, you probably just need to write more, read more (with an eye to how a successful writer handles things), and learn as you go.

Sean D. Schaffer · Jul 5, 2008

estateconnection said:
I have this novel in my head. I see the whole thing in technicolor--beginning to end--like a movie, even down to the color of the curtains. Problem? I can't get it down on paper. I've tried taking each scene and writing what I see, but what I see is fluid and exciting; what I write is awkward and clunky. I've moved on to other projects but this movie keeps playing. Has anyone experienced this?

All the time. The thing that has always worked for me is exactly what others have already said: write the book, and give yourself permission to write crap.

Best wishes to you.

estateconnection · Jul 5, 2008

Thank you very much for all of your responses and your related experiences. I thought I was going a little nutty when I could hear the music changes with the associated scenes! Alleycat, thank you for the suggestion of reading more--I don't write in the genre of my "movie" so I am going to grab some to familiarize myself with action scenes in particular. I shall go forth with my newly printed permission to write badly certificate pinned to my corkboard! Thank you again.

Susan Breen · Jul 5, 2008

Same here. I have a beautiful picture in my head and then I look at my written words and they are not at all what I intended, but I keep revising and revising, trying to get closer to that beautiful picture, and occasionally there's a sentence, or even a paragraph, that says exactly what I want it to say.

Appalachian Writer · Jul 5, 2008

I used to say that when I closed my eyes, my characters appeared, fully formed, on the back of my eyelids. Non-writers took it as a sign of insanity. Did I write them? Yes, and most of the time (ask my beta) they came off clunky. Do I write differently now? I hope so. No. I know so. Writing takes practice. Hemmingway revised THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA over a hundred times. Trial and error. Seeing what works and what doesn't. Write the book, clunks and all, then polish and refine, take your criticism on the chin, work harder, longer, and who knows? Maybe the agenting gods will smile on you and you'll be giving advice in some future thread for would-be writers.

Kalyke · Jul 5, 2008

I think people don't write because they don't really understand how much revision is needed for polished prose. Another reason is because they think that every novel will be published or a best seller. I think half of the novels written in the world are sitting in boxes, half finished. Don't worry so much about curtain color, worry about story and characterization and write. Curtain color comes when you polish it up in a year or so.

maestrowork · Jul 5, 2008

It's very common. One is visual and the other is literal. Even if you write "cinematically" they're still two different media.

What I find I usually try to do: I describe just enough to put the readers inside the scene, but I leave enough details for them to imagine the rest. I use descriptive prompts, to help them conjure the scenes using their own experiences, memories, and imagination. Should I describe every prop and color and texture? That would be tedious. But if you let your readers experience and imagine the rest, it's more vivid for them, even if it's not exactly how YOU, the writer, envisioned it. I mean, unless you're making an actual movie, there's no way you can dictate how your readers would interpret your words. That's just futile. Instead, try to help your readers "get it." When you describe an alleyway in the middle of London during a rainy day, where the cobblestones are slick and walls look black... You've given enough sensical cues to help the readers imagine a dark, wet alley. No need to describe everything. But try to use the five senses: sight, sound (both can be achieved in film), smell and taste (by inference in film -- similar to books), and touch.

Reilly616 · Jul 5, 2008

James D. Macdonald said:
Absolutely dead common.

The solution? Write the book. Even if every page, every line, every word, is total crap.

Don't stop until you reach "The End."

Do you need permission to write badly? Here you go.

I must just say, that is Brilliant! I hope you don't mind, but I printed myself out a copy.

keekum · Jul 5, 2008

i definitely get what you mean. i student taught 10th grade english last semester, and one of the most important things i learned from my cooperating teacher was that ideas don't always translate fluidly into text... a lot of times, kids think they're stupid because they can't write well, but that's hardly ever true. i became a much better critic of their writing when i learned how to see the brilliant ideas behind their bumbling words. that way i could find something to compliment them on, increase their self esteem, and inspire them to keep writing.

at times perhaps it's even a testament to the brilliance of your idea that you have difficulty writing it... that means it's too amazing for words!

however, i think the process goes both ways. there are times when i don't know what's going on until i put it into words. sometimes it doesn't even make sense while i'm writing it... i write something, go back and read it, and figure out what it means. it's a bit different from the "figure it out as you go along" approach that many people take to writing, because i usually have a vague idea... it's just that writing clarifies it for me. i tend to think through writing. that's why i keep a personal journal.

David I · Jul 5, 2008

"Every book is the wreck of a perfect idea."

--Iris Murdoch

nevada · Jul 5, 2008

Maestro beat me too it. What I was going to say (besides what everyone else said about it being okay to write crap in the first draft) is don't describe so much what you, as author, are seeing, but what the character is feeling and seeing. But try this. Go into a room or a place you've never been. Don't look around but just go do your thing. Now close your eyes and describe everything you remember from the room. Open your eyes and see how much you forgot. If your character is an ordinary person, that's how much he or she saw. (this does not work if your character is spec ops, cause they notice everything.) I lived in a house for 3 years. To this day if people ask me what colour the siding is, i'll tell them light blue. It's very pale beige. But I do it every time.

meldy · Jul 5, 2008

Reilly616 said:
I must just say, that is Brilliant! I hope you don't mind, but I printed myself out a copy.

ME TOO!

Thats awesome!

Danger Jane · Jul 5, 2008

maestrowork said:
It's very common. One is visual and the other is literal. Even if you write "cinematically" they're still two different media.

What I find I usually try to do: I describe just enough to put the readers inside the scene, but I leave enough details for them to imagine the rest. I use descriptive prompts, to help them conjure the scenes using their own experiences, memories, and imagination. Should I describe every prop and color and texture? That would be tedious. But if you let your readers experience and imagine the rest, it's more vivid for them, even if it's not exactly how YOU, the writer, envisioned it. I mean, unless you're making an actual movie, there's no way you can dictate how your readers would interpret your words. That's just futile. Instead, try to help your readers "get it." When you describe an alleyway in the middle of London during a rainy day, where the cobblestones are slick and walls look black... You've given enough sensical cues to help the readers imagine a dark, wet alley. No need to describe everything. But try to use the five senses: sight, sound (both can be achieved in film), smell and taste (by inference in film -- similar to books), and touch.

QTF. I try to put on a mental filter that highlights everything relevant and necessary, and I avoid everything extraneous. When you want to put a reader in the scene, it's more effective to select a handful of evocative details drawing from all five senses than it is to list many purely visual details.

pointman · Jul 5, 2008

James D. Macdonald said:
Absolutely dead common.

The solution? Write the book. Even if every page, every line, every word, is total crap.

Don't stop until you reach "The End."

Do you need permission to write badly? Here you go.

I like this

Every time I write I feel like giving up because I just think about how my words sound awful and stilted. I just can't help but thinking that when Shakespeare or Hemmingway wrote they just vomited pure poetry onto the page without a second thought, so what business do I have being a writer?

MelodyO · Jul 5, 2008

"Vomited pure poetry" is my new favourite expression. I guess it depends on how many sonnets you drank the night before.

PS I always secretly believe great authors vomit pure poetry, too, even when they say they don't. It would be nice to think writing is easy for someone, even if that someone isn't me.

Shweta · Jul 5, 2008

I beta read a story for one of my favourite authors last year. She was kind enough to let me see and comment on a very early draft as well as something closer to done, I guess because of things I'd said regarding a previous novel of hers that I beta read.

So I saw that novel morph from something not that far out of my own reach into something awesome. I saw how she was thinking about it. And I saw the "sponge-rubber-dinosaur" version (her term) grow into a full-blown novel as she got more of what was in her head onto the page.

This is a pro author with multiple books to her name, mind.
It happens.

HeronW · Jul 5, 2008

If you've bits you put down the bits, let it set then go back later and tidy things up.

Don't worry about perfect, don't worry about anything. Thank your Muses that you've the story, scribble with crayon on toilet paper if you must, get the bones and covering and it will come together.

tehuti88 · Jul 6, 2008

I think in highly visual terms, down to "camera angles" and "soundtrack scores" and all that. I can play out story scenes in my head, but for me, this has always just been "normal." I wouldn't be able to write if I didn't see it (and hear it) in my head so much.

I know the feeling of the words being put down on the page being nowhere near as good as what's going on in the head, though. While I don't really have much trouble getting down the words, there's often the fear that I won't be able to do it very well, especially when I come to a difficult scene. I constantly worry that it won't turn out the way I hoped, that my word choices will make a dramatic situation silly, that others won't view the scene the way I intended, etc. For some reason I seem to think that writing down the words should be just as easy as visualizing the story. This is never so, but that's probably what makes writers work so hard to improve.

I didn't read any but the first few responses, but their advice is the only advice--just write it, even if it's difficult and seems lousy. It might end up not being as lousy as you thought, and even if it is, you can rework it.

You can't rework or improve what hasn't been written.

Seif · Jul 6, 2008

We are not just writers but artists, directors, creators and as far as I'm concerned what I do is a very visual experience. Translating the vision onto a blank piece of paper is one of the hardest things that you'll have to do. As many of the experienced writers here have suggested use all of your senses and describe as much as possible THEN once you have completed the first draft and proceeded on to the editing stage you can add/extract that which is not crucial to character development, plot advancement, narrative style etc.

All the best,

Lady Cat · Jul 6, 2008

When I first started writing I thought there was something wrong with me because my brain and my pen didn't seem connected - what I saw in my head just didn't seem to translate onto paper. But after talking to many other writers I realized it just meant I was normal.

And then I went through a whole stage where I'd write a few pages and then edit them endlessly, then write a few more and edit, and I'd keep that up until the entire story was lost.

Now I write the whole thing from start to finish, no matter how bad it is, and don't change a syllable until the first draft is completed. This works so much better!

I printed out the Permission to Write Badly certificate too. And I printed a couple of copies to give to my writing friends. I'm going to frame mine and hang it above my desk.

maestrowork · Jul 6, 2008

tehuti88 said:
I think in highly visual terms, down to "camera angles" and "soundtrack scores" and all that. I can play out story scenes in my head, but for me, this has always just been "normal." I wouldn't be able to write if I didn't see it (and hear it) in my head so much.

Perhaps you guys should consider doing films or writing graphics novels instead. They're more "visual" media than novels.

Danger Jane · Jul 6, 2008

Seif said:
We are not just writers but artists, directors, creators and as far as I'm concerned what I do is a very visual experience. Translating the vision onto a blank piece of paper is one of the hardest things that you'll have to do. As many of the experienced writers here have suggested use all of your senses and describe as much as possible THEN once you have completed the first draft and proceeded on to the editing stage you can add/extract that which is not crucial to character development, plot advancement, narrative style etc.

All the best,

It's important to note the four other senses as well, though. Humans are nearly as auditory as visual, and little details of sound and scent and touch and taste can be what turns a fictional travel brochure into a fictional place.

Common Problem?

estateconnection

Chris Grey

Vagrant Story

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

alleycat

Still around

Sean D. Schaffer

estateconnection

Susan Breen

Appalachian Writer

Somewhere in the hills....

Kalyke

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Reilly616

keekum

David I

nevada

meldy

Instant humanJust add coffee

Danger Jane

pointman

MelodyO

Waiting for love on the web

Shweta

gone

HeronW

Down Under Fan

tehuti88

Mackinac Island Fanatic

Seif

Lady Cat

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Danger Jane