Self-publishing and publishing credits questions

Panda Dragon · Jun 30, 2008

Self-Publishing advice

Hey guys, was wondering if anyone could help me with this query.

I'm thinking of self publishing a new series of novels I've written and publish them through the website lulu.com. Then, if I get enough interest then hopefully I could try and get a publisher. I guess it's two questions really.

1) If I do this, can I take my book to bookshops?

2) Does this sound like a good idea?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Perle_Rare · Jun 30, 2008

First of all, welcome here! :welcome:

Just for clarification: Why do you seek to self-publish? Have you tried getting published through regular channels?

IceCreamEmpress · Jun 30, 2008

Panda Dragon said:
Hey guys, was wondering if anyone could help me with this query.

I'm thinking of self publishing a new series of novels I've written and publish them through the website lulu.com. Then, if I get enough interest then hopefully I could try and get a publisher. I guess it's two questions really.

1) If I do this, can I take my book to bookshops?

2) Does this sound like a good idea?

2) This sounds like a not-very-good idea. For every novelist who managed to parlay a self-published book into a contract with a commercial publisher (and there are a handful), there are literally THOUSANDS of first-time novelists who got contracts with commercial publishers through the ordinary routes of querying agents (or, with some publishers, querying the publisher directly). Have you queried any agents?

1) You might be able to get your most local bookstore to sell your book, if they have a policy of selling self-published books by local authors. Otherwise, no.

scope · Jun 30, 2008

Ditto to what IceCreamEmpress said. It's not a good idea.

veinglory · Jun 30, 2008

1) Very few chain stores will even take non-returnable book on consignment any more. Even indy stores are cooling to the idea which tends to leave you with shop-worn books rather than high levels of sales.
2) No

I support self-publishing, for people who want to self-publish, where self-publishing has a realistic chance of meeting their goals. If your goal is commercial publishing self-publishing is more likely to reduce your chances than inclrease them. It does happen but very very very rarely. The odds of succeeding by submiting as normal is much higher.

Mr Sci Fi · Jun 30, 2008

I just asked the same question and from what I was told, it seems like a bad idea.

Might as well give yourself a shot at getting published traditionally before self publishing.

brianm · Jun 30, 2008

Panda Dragon said:
1) If I do this, can I take my book to bookshops?

Yes. Will they place copies on their shelves? No, although your local bookstore may take a copy or two on consignment if they have a local author section.

2) Does this sound like a good idea?

No, and didn’t you try the self-publishing route already?

Self-publishing can be a good idea for certain niche genres and for some non-fiction works, but it isn't a good idea for works of fiction.

Marian Perera · Jun 30, 2008

Panda Dragon said:
2) Does this sound like a good idea?

Why not try to get it commercially published first? If that fails, you can still self-publish. It's more difficult to get a commercial publisher interested if your self-published book doesn't have good sales.

I write fantasy and I'm trying to get those published commercially, so I can't say that self-publishing fantasy novels sounds like a good idea.

Old Hack · Jun 30, 2008

I blogged about this one recently: all I did, really, was point out how incredibly difficult it is for a book which was originally self-published or vanity-published to make the transition to commercial publication, then I sent my readers to the Lynn Price's blog--she's editorial director for Behler Publications, and put it all into sharp focus. You’ll need to go here, then scroll down to read “Do It Right the First Time”, dated January 23, 2008.

timewaster · Jul 1, 2008

Panda Dragon said:
Hey guys, was wondering if anyone could help me with this query.

I'm thinking of self publishing a new series of novels I've written and publish them through the website lulu.com. Then, if I get enough interest then hopefully I could try and get a publisher. I guess it's two questions really.

1) If I do this, can I take my book to bookshops?

2) Does this sound like a good idea?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I think it depends on what you want to achieve. If you just want a physical copy of a book with your name on the spine to give to friends and family, self publishing is a good idea though obviously it will cost you money.
If, on the other hand, you want to end up commercially publishing your story self publishing is highly unlikely to help.
To come to the notice of a commercial publisher you would have to sell a significant number of copies and if your work is good enough to do that with limited in store distribution and no publicity, chances are it would sell to a mainstream publisher.

IMHO it makes sense to self publish for niche books - local or family history, minority interest books which have an accessible audience through non standard channels. Some published writers have gone that route too for books that didn't fit their publishers plans or for out of print books. It works well in certain types of circumstances. It doesn't sound to me like yours is one of them.

Phaeal · Jul 1, 2008

Ask yourself why someone should buy your self-published fantasy when the store shelves are groaning with commercially published ones. If yours is as well-written and involving as the commercial books, why not try to get it commercially published? If it's not, keep rewriting until it is.

Panda Dragon · Jul 1, 2008

Thanks to all who have replied so much (and the warm welcomes).

To answer your questions, yes I have tried to get an agent. However, the general problem that I have is that most publishers won't accept you unless you have an agent and most agents won't take you on unless you have already published something. It's a catch-22 which I'm stuck on.

To be honest, I would prefer the commercially successful route, but it's so hard to get a publisher these day that self-publishing might be the obvious choice. Unless there's any advice that people can give to me to help go for a publisher?

Thanks for all your help guys. I look forward to hearing more.

veinglory · Jul 1, 2008

Most publishers will accept a query letter from unagented authors -- 'no unsolicited manuscripts' refers only to cold-sending the entire book.

I suggest you read through the forums and pick up some idea of how people here got published at by various types of publisher and how it is working out for them.

It is harder to get a publisher because the rewards are greater. But it is far from impossible, and if you consider worthwhile small presses is really isn't that arduous at all. Lord knows I am no matyr to my art and have managed to get my book into a few bookstores and made afew thousand dollars from it.

Choose the level of success you want and do the amount of self-education and effort required -- the peeps here can provide all the information you are going to need.

I would note that creating a self-published books is not that hard, but selling it is very much harder than selling a book that has distribution behind it. I would consider third-party publishing the 'easier' option for anyone wanting to sell into three figure amounts or higher.

Panda Dragon · Jul 1, 2008

Thanks for that veinglory. I'll consider it. To be fair, I don't really care about major world distribution, I'd just like my book read by a few people. But if you think commercial publishing is the best way to go, I'll look into it.

Thanks

ResearchGuy · Jul 1, 2008

Panda Dragon said:
. . .
. . .

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Recommendation: Buy latest edition of Dan Poynter's Self-Publishing Manual and study it before you launch any sort of self-publishing venture.

Read How I Got Published (Writer's Digest Books, 2007).

Email or PM me for a (free) pdf of "The Pursuit of Publishing: An Unvarnished Guide for the Perplexed." Or you can find it at Lulu.com and pay a few bucks for printed booklet form or their download version. It is only 15k words, including references/resources, and will help you get oriented to the whole range of possibilities. (Considering I'll give you a .pdf for free, with no gimmicks or catches, there is not a lot of risk involved.)

I see lots of good advice in other replies to your query here.

--Ken

Panda Dragon · Jul 1, 2008

Thought I'd get your advice on this one guys. Does having previous writing experiance help in getting yourself an agent? I'm just asking because in some example of query letters that have been accepted, I've noted that they have had some experiance in writing (IE, winning a competion or writing for their local paper, etc). I do't have any experiance per say, but I have a huge interest in story telling and have pretty much taught myself how to do it.

Does experience help in getting a publisher? Does it affect an agents or publishers decision to accept a novel?

Any advice I'd much appreciate. Thanks

ChaosTitan · Jul 1, 2008

Panda Dragon said:
To answer your questions, yes I have tried to get an agent. However, the general problem that I have is that most publishers won't accept you unless you have an agent and most agents won't take you on unless you have already published something. It's a catch-22 which I'm stuck on.

It's also quite false. Agents take on unpublished writers all the time. I've not published a scrap of anything, but I signed with a well-known agent last month. Agents wants good books they can sell and authors whose careers they can help guide. Previously published works are just icing.

Claudia Gray · Jul 1, 2008

For fiction, experience doesn't help as a credential. (With nonfiction, a reporter who had extensively covered the subject matter of the book would no doubt have a stronger case.) Probably it does help in the construction of solid queries/drafts. But you can make that experience up through your own practice.

ChaosTitan · Jul 1, 2008

Experience never hurts. Agents like to see that someone's already liked your work enough to publish it. But like I mentioned in your other thread, I've rarely seen the lack of credentials hurt anyone (including myself).

waylander · Jul 1, 2008

Everything else is insignificant beside HAVING A GREAT BOOK

BenPanced · Jul 1, 2008

What ResearchGuy said.

When you self-pub, you become much, much more than an author. You're now the editor, the cover artist, the marketing and PR person, the shop keeper, and the accountant, depending on how far you want to take it.

Toothpaste · Jul 1, 2008

It can help, but it isn't necessary. I had NO experience at all, and that didn't hinder me! Like Waylander said, write a great book!

Sargentodiaz · Jul 1, 2008

waylander said:
Everything else is insignificant beside HAVING A GREAT BOOK

Amen!

The next trick is to SELL IT!

As an aside, in the research I've done on publishers, most don't deal with authors directly. They prefer agents who, in effect, do their screening for them.

JamieFord · Jul 1, 2008

All the experience in the world won't matter if your book is uninteresting. It's all about the book.

veinglory · Jul 1, 2008

If you literally only want to sell 'a few' self-publishing may be easiest option--assuming you don't really go for a fully profession looking cover, layout and editing, just something readable. If you actually want to sell over 1000 it probably isn't.

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