suspension of disbelief

For someone who's graduated high school, this is an awkward and strange question.

Not really considering that may be Blue's target audience as a writer. Or anyone else's for that matter. I do remember there being a thread already started on the suspension of disbelief a few weeks back.

Could you please clarify, Blue? Are you asking about the suspension of disbelief or the quality of writing for the younger audiences?

Generally I'm good as suspending disbelief as a fantasy reader, but I do better at it the farther the setting strays from current reality. Magic realism never really works for me, and neither does urban fantasy.

The shows or books are clearly aimed at a certain age group (8-10, for example) which has a different level of cognitive development and psychology. And if you're a over that age group, I don't see how it's relevant. There's a reason why I don't read children's books or Sesame Street now (I did when I was 6). It's not about suspension of disbelief. It's about "it's just not the right story for you."

For example, the early Harry Potter books are just too childish for me. I couldn't really get into it. I feel like I'm too old for them. But someone convinced me that I should read the later books. I think it's much easier for me to get into the later books -- the situations are more believable, complex, and realistic (even for a fantasy) that makes it easier for me to suspend my disbelief as an adult.

Blue, you're eighteen, right? Anything on Disney is targeted toward the tween group, max. There's an entirely different mindset at that age. (Well...usually.)

I suspend disbelief just fine in, say, fantasy/sci fi/most supernatural stuff. Oddly enough, the movie I had the most trouble suspending disbelief in was Sex and the City...and I had seen Iron Man and Indiana Jones the week prior, so....yeah.

I guess if you can make two people mad at each other, they won't be mad at you, or will be distracted or something so you can do some task they wouldn't like? I can think of plenty of uses for a spell like that.

First of all, the so-called "Harry Potter trope" was in use way before Harry Potter. Anybody remember The Worst Witch? How about Teen Witch? (for those of you who are too young to recall Teen Witch, you need to watch this video and understand that this was unbearably cool when I was in fifth grade. So cool that kids would rap this at each other on the playground, but only the coolest kids were allowed to "top that.") My point is that there is nothing that is a rip-off of Harry Potter, since the "child with magical powers in training in a whimsical location to use said powers" is something that's been around for a very long time.

Anyway.

No, I don't find it hard to suspend disbelief when watching most kids' shows or reading most kids' books. I like kids' stuff if it's well done. I don't like it when it assumes children are stupid. When it acknowledges that a lot of kids are really smart cookies, it's often clever and fun. Maybe I have no problem with that because I am in touch with my imagination, even pushing 30. I often daydream and fantasize just for the fun of it. I love playing make-believe games with the kids I know. Imagination is something I never want to lose. Programming and writing geared toward kids assumes that some imagination and fantasy will come into play, so going along with the fantasy world is part of the experience.

I find it much harder to suspend disbelief over shows and books that were made with an adult audience in mind. For example, in that movie Signs, WHY did aliens who are hydrophobic come to Earth, a planet that is obviously more then 70% covered in water? You can tell it's a water-world from space. Why bother to drop in if water kills you? And if water kills them, how could they survive in our water-vapor-heavy air? Just doesn't add up. Of course, that was supposed to be science fiction, and thus was supposed to have some SCIENCE in it. Of a kind. Sadly, the most obvious science of all was swept under the rug. Fail!

I'd probably find that Disney show you talked about more believable than Signs.

The kids' shows that I've watched lately depend on an incredible conceit. Hanna Montana/Miley Cyrus depends on the same conceit as Superman/Clark Kent, but the show has some good writing and fairly consistent performances, and it can be quite funny. Superman is just cool. So whether I believe it or not doesn't matter so much.

Oh, and I watch these shows because my kids are 8 & 10, which is, I think, the target audience.

ETA: I think kiddie, cartoonish stories depend more on other elements than they do on suspension of disbelief. If the stories are humourous or tender, engaging and have a cast of relatable characters, that's what makes up for impossible situations. If that stuff doesn't work, the magical world (or whatever) falls apart.

The shows are targeted for much younger audiences. Not you. That they have teen agers starring them your age, consider that we all strive to be bigger than what we are. So, the 5-year-old wants to be 10. The 10-year-old wants to be 15. The 15 year-old wants to be 20. And so on. This tends to fizzle out about the time you turn 35 or so. Then it works backward (in some ways).

However, TV shows = selling something. I think that's a Disney show you're talking about. So, it sells Disney and all things Disney. It has nothing to do with itself and everything to do with 1-407-WDISNEY.

The show's not meant for you. "Saw" and "Hostel" are meant for you. So is "Matrix" and a host of others.

If you're reaching for some suspension of disbelief equation that's out of your demographic, then you're reaching for the wrong brass ring.

Well, I write for adults, not MG or below, and I haven't watched the show in question. But I agree with Maestro - there is a bit of a different level when dealing with that age group. You have to write for them but at the same time, not down to them. (Personally, I don't think I have the touch to pull that off. Perhaps in the future, maybe.) At the same time, if the writer's good, MG and YA books can be a lot of fun for adults as well as their target audience.

Think about it, a 8-10 y/o's has a different level of life experience than an 18 y/o. A 8-10 y/o might be more willing to go with the flow of the "wizz-bang" logic than an 18 y/o would. And an 18 y/o has a better grasp of adult relationships than a 8-10 y/o would. (There are always exceptions of course.)

If the Father in this show actually teaches the kids spells and then tells them not to use them, he is either seriously twisted or is using reverse psychology or...yep, he's just a clumsy plot device, and I'm turning off the TV.

Phaeal said:

If the Father in this show actually teaches the kids spells and then tells them not to use them, he is either seriously twisted or is using reverse psychology or...yep, he's just a clumsy plot device, and I'm turning off the TV.

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Yeah but the point is, if the father's hilarious, the kids are charming and the spell is cool, the target audience (8 to 12 yos) will NOT be turning off the tv.

Oh, how I'd love to turn off Hannah Montana, Zoey 101 and The Suite Life. Hate. Hate. Hate.

CaroGirl said:

Yeah but the point is, if the father's hilarious, the kids are charming and the spell is cool, the target audience (8 to 12 yos) will NOT be turning off the tv.

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And when you're that young, there's no need to connect all the dots. Connecting all the dots is for when we get older and can/should scrutinize things. Besides, those skills aren't in place yet to connect all the dots -- and television producers/programmers know that. Thus, suspension of disbelief at that level.

BlueLucario said:

I haven't seen the movie. But Maybe these Aliens, didn't know there was water? Or don't know what water is.

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Dude, if they're smart enough to master interstellar flight and to invade planets, they know how to recognize the one and only thing that will kill them.

That's the kind of suspension of disbelief I have real issues with.

There are many things in HP that are hard to believe in, just as in those shows you're talking about. A wizard not knowing how to use money? Wizard kids that are taught absolutely nothing other than magic (though, now that I think about it, the latter might explain the former!) Really?

For the record, I thought Signs was an amazing movie all the way up until we see the alien. It was definitely a copout, but then again, it wasn't really the point of the movie, so I was able to go with it.

I guess that's the point. I can suspend disbelief over little things. The Signs thing is a good example of making the audience invent an explanation, even though there is no evidence in the source material for an explanation, and that's generally something to avoid.

Moving this one to movies and TV.

BlueLucario said:

Let's say you're watching some kids show. I hated kid's shows, mainly because I can't suspend disbelief.


My point is. Have you ever felt awkward watching a kid's show? Is it easy for you to suspend disbelief?

This doesn't apply to just T.V, it's also books and Movies.

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You can't suspend disbelief, but you do with your own writing, don't you? You write fiction: 12 year old assassin, talking cat, anime fight scenes, etc.
You suspended disbelief with with Harry Potter, didn't you?

Suspension of disbelief I would think is more a case-by-case thing with any television, movie or fiction writing.

As for children's shows, the young audience targeted for that material has a desire for entertainment and has an easier time believing things that don't seem right to older audiences, and I would venture to say that they simply don't care as much as adults if the dots don't connect.

Simply, if you've outgrown watching kids' shows or reading kids' books, then don't. Challenge yourself with something aimed at an older audience, that has those possibly "unbelievable" elements and see how the author makes or scriptwriter makes them believable - what logic is used and how the rules of that particular universe are set up. See if they can suspend your disbelief.

As for books, I am more than happy to sink into a story that has science fiction, paranormal, or fantasy world elements as long as it is written effectively and follows a set of rules and logic.

I do have a problem, however, with a book I read where a plane crashed and someone who was supposed to be on the plane wasn't - she was missing, but the house the plane crashed into had a body buried inside. On examination they found out who the dead woman was and already had a link to her killer, who happened to be the lover of the missing woman/passenger. Ok. Let me get this straight. A body he buried 30 years ago just happened to be buried at the crash site of the plane his current mistress was supposed to be on? hhhmmm.

Stew21 said:

I do have a problem, however, with a book I read where a plane crashed and someone who was supposed to be on the plane wasn't - she was missing, but the house the plane crashed into had a body buried inside. On examination they found out who the dead woman was and already had a link to her killer, who happened to be the lover of the missing woman/passenger. Ok. Let me get this straight. A body he buried 30 years ago just happened to be buried at the crash site of the plane his current mistress was supposed to be on? hhhmmm.

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Oh, oh, oh, don't tell me. The missing woman was the dead woman's daughter!

I sit and watch kid shows on Nick and Disney with my kids all the time. In many cases I actually prefer them to the adult fodder out there.

I won't tell you, but what are the chances that your mistress' plane crashes right on the house where you buried someone back in the 70's?

How horribly convenient for the plot.

I still find it curious that a high-school graduate/on-the-way-to-college person is questioning the SOB properties of Disney shows and it's not related to writing or otherwise. If you ask the target audience why they can do it, I'm going to bet the answer is somewhere between "Chocolate milk" and "my last Gameflix rental t-t-t-totally sucked."

Would you rather an 18yo watching Real World and the OC?